Hello all

i was recently called into work and was suspended for false accusation of theft

cut a long story short

my father in law is a motor trader who has an ebay account

he gets my partner his daughter to advertise and sell items on ebay for him

my company has got a third party investigation firm in to investigate as my company is in the motor trade also

the only link to these items is me being in a relationship with my partner

they have hacked my father in laws ebay

gone rather in depth despite account being registered at his home address

but post address and returns being my partners were I am not registered

they have also hacked mine and my partners facebook to show we're in a relationship

and gone in depth in both accounts

i know this as both accounts are set to friends and not public domain

also took pictures of our children off facebook and shared them made copies

(is this allowed without parents consent)

in my eyes ebay hacked

facebook hacked

childrens pictures take off fb ( not on front page)

children pictures copied and shared between investigation team and my company

help help help

as i have done nothing wrong neither has father in law or partner

Welcome to the CAG

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

Please continue to post here to your thread

Regards

Andy

Ignoring the hacking side of things for a moment, what exactly are you accused of?

Have the Police been involved?

What information has been provided to you?

Hello all

 

i was recently called into work and was suspended for false accusation of theft

 

cut a long story short

 

my father in law is a motor trader who has an ebay account

 

he gets my partner his daughter to advertise and sell items on ebay for him

 

my company has got a third party investigation firm in to investigate as my company is in the motor trade also

 

the only link to these items is me being in a relationship with my partner

 

they have hacked my father in laws ebay

 

gone rather in depth despite account being registered at his home address

 

but post address and returns being my partners were I am not registered

 

they have also hacked mine and my partners facebook to show we're in a relationship

and gone in depth in both accounts

 

i know this as both accounts are set to friends and not public domain

 

also took pictures of our children off facebook and shared them made copies

 

(is this allowed without parents consent)

 

in my eyes ebay hacked

 

facebook hacked

 

childrens pictures take off fb ( not on front page)

 

children pictures copied and shared between investigation team and my company

 

help help help

 

as i have done nothing wrong neither has father in law or partner

I sort of agree with Sidewinder that your allegations of hacking are a entirely different matter and need to be dealt with separately.

I'd like to understand a few other things, if you can answer some questions:

How long have you worked for this employer?

You need to understand that as things stand, you have not been accused of theft, rightly or wrongly - you are being investigated, and whilst this takes place you are suspended. Being suspended doesn't mean you are guilty or that there is any assumption of guilt. It's just to allow the employer to investigate without any interference.

You seem to know a lot about what the employer has.- how do you know these things? Have they presented you with evidence?

If there is an allegation of theft, that suggests that something is missing. Are you aware of things going missing asst work, or why the employer thinks things are missing?

I am not entirely surprised that they have some suspicions - the relationships described here appear rather convoluted! Your father in law, who you and your partner do not live with, sells items connected to the motor treads on eBay. He does this by using your partners address - why? And you don't live with your partner or your father in law, but you also work in the motor trade and have some connection to items that appear to be similar to those your father in law sells but which are handled by your partner? It does sound odd, you must admit! But it ought to be easily evidenced - your father in law has legitimately obtained these items somewhere else so will have receipts for them. Presumably he can produce these receipts for the items on eBay? That would seem to conclude the matter - if there is evidence that the items sold are not from your employers stock the matter disappears, doesn't it?

On the matters remaining, I very much doubt that your employer, or anyone acting on their behalf had acted illegally. The things that you say they have access to, and assuming that they do, are very easily accessed by other means. The most common method in relation to social media is, for example, the people who you have given access to! Any colleagues on your friends list? Because work mates are the number one cause of employers being able to view social media.

And that is one aspect that is most important here - why on earth did the employer start investigating you anyway, and how did they make the connection? They didn't wake up one morning knowing that you have a partner at one address handling motor parts, and a father in law selling the parts at another address, and you at yet another address. You know how that usually gets connected? Someone tells them! Has someone got a reason to want to say this about you - perhaps someone you have fallen out with? Or someone who knows the whole family who had been fallen out with?

I have worked for my employer for 4 years

i was unaware items have gone missing and they have based the investigation on information they have gained threw hacking of ebay account and linked me by being in a relationship with father in laws daughter the account holder on ebay

apart from that these nothing linking me with my father in laws business i work for a car/van auction company my father in law is a motor trader who sells vehicles and also strips and sells parts which my partner advertises sells posts and receives returns on behalf of my father in law on his ebay account registered in his name his address were i have no links or ties except for being with my partner

My father in law is known buy our local branch as he is registered with a traders card and has bought vehicles from my local branch

i must add i dont work at thelocal branch iam field based i dont think my regional manager was aware my father in law is in the trade or registered with our company and reason my partner sells her address for him is so she can work from home make little money from home as her 2 children both have differing degrees of disabilitys

Plus i must answer no the police have not been involved but i have stated i dont object.

My company sells full vehicles my father in law sells full vehicles or strips items which ever give him greater return or quickest return

Hello there.

I see one of the forum advisers is hovering, but I'll ask anyway. I expect I'm being thick, but what are you accused of stealing please? Is it cars or car parts?

HB

Hello there.

 

I see one of the forum advisers is hovering, but I'll ask anyway. I expect I'm being thick, but what are you accused of stealing please? Is it cars or car parts?

 

HB

car parts

car parts iam accused of

car parts

Thank you. And you say that the auction house don't sell car parts if I've understood you?

HB

I'm sorry but I'm not going for the "espionage conspiracy theory" - hacking into eBay accounts and Facebook seems exceptionally unlikely. It simply isn't that easy to do, and it would be illegal. Why would an employer hire someone to carry out illegal activities in order to investigate an employee for alleged illegal activities? And how would they even know where to look if there is no connection between you and the seller? But if you believe that something illegal had transpired, then report it to the police. Just be sure that your employer had actually done what your are accusing them of, and that isn't just your guess, because once you make that allegation, there is no going back. It is still the case that the most common way employers get access to such information is that someone had given it to them.

Leaving that aside, your father in law has the receipts that prove he is selling his own goods that have been legitimately paid for? I presume that he requires these to prove his business is legitimate, in case he is ever questioned as to the source of his parts etc. And your partners income from the business is declared appropriately? These things will go a long way towards demonstrating that everything is above board.

Do you have access to vehicles and parts? How are those recorded - there must be some form of stock record?

And can you please explain exactly what the employer had given you as evidence - you've said that they have pictures and information, so how do you know this? It would help if you could explain exactly what had happened.

I think the op meant looking through eBay adverts and Facebook to find a connection rather than hacking the accounts.

For what I understand some parts have gone missing and the employer has found the same parts listed for sale on fil eBay shop.

Thank you. And you say that the auction house don't sell car parts if I've understood you?

 

HB

no they dont sell vehicle parts

the investigation company was logged into the account very in depth pictures taken that could only have been taken with account logged in ive been told this is illegal breach human rights act 8 or something and facebook wasnt just home screens was in depth and thats were the obtained picture of children and copied with comments that me and partner has saying

and all lose items of vehicle sat navs and other thing taken at point of arrival on the gate so no i dont have access

I think the op meant looking through eBay adverts and Facebook to find a connection rather than hacking the accounts.

For what I understand some parts have gone missing and the employer has found the same parts listed for sale on fil eBay shop.

Parts of this does sound like that, yes. That is why I would like some actual details about what has been said and done; and what evidence of the legitimacy of the parts sold there is. I agree that the eBay is most likely a result of finding the parts on eBay rather than "hacking" the site, which I find hard to believe - although I understand that Trading Standards do have some form of access to personal information where fraud or theft is involved. Not sure exactly how it works, but I have heard of this happening. But the OP also say that they have access to his Facebook site which is set to privacy modes.

And I have to be honest - if the employer has found parts missing and "the same" parts being sold by a relative on eBay, he needs some evidence that the father in law legitimately owns those parts. I have to believe the op when he says he hasn't stolen anything. But the scant information we have here makes it look exceedingly like he has. So we need something more than saying he is innocent to help him look for a defence.

I still have to wonder about there being a "friend" behind this. That would account for the Facebook aspect, and quite likely informing the employer about the connections in the first place. I mean, surely there are hundreds of Kia 2009 rear brake calipers on ebay??? Or whatever? How could anyone simply skim the site and go "I bet that's the one we are missing"? They pretty much all look alike!

I'm inclined the think that there is more to this. But right now it does not look good for the op. The business appears to have parts missing. The op's partner is selling car parts. That is certainly enough reasonable belief to justify a dismissal.

So come on stirlinghalsall - give us something to work with! Forget about alleged hacking etc - what can prove that your partner is selling parts for your father in law and that he obtained those parts legally?

the investigation company was logged into the account very in depth pictures taken that could only have been taken with account logged in ive been told this is illegal breach human rights act 8 or something and facebook wasnt just home screens was in depth and thats were the obtained picture of children and copied with comments that me and partner has saying

I'm sorry - (a) prove it and (b) so what? If, and I stress IF, they had someone hack your account, that does not prove that you are innocent of theft!

Could you please answer the questions I asked before. Does your father in law have accounts and receipts to prove that the items on sale or sold are his? Has your partner declared her income from this work? If everything is above board, this would go a long way to proving your innocence.

My father in law deals mainly in renault vehicles he asked his daughter to sell parts on his behalf because his ex partner was skimming the profits no longer trusted her so he thought he was doing his daughter a favour the big parts eg engines and gearbox he sell to polish contact who buys engines in bulk and exports wheels and tyres to local breakers yard who has a tyre company in grounds wiring and batteries weigh in also weigh in shell and any items like lights radios sat nav sd cards hands free kits ecus my partner would advertise and sell but mainly break vans because of deal with polish

what other info do you need as what i told you is evidence they have and they asked me questions and what i said during post is my replys

My father in law deals mainly in renault vehicles he asked his daughter to sell parts on his behalf because his ex partner was skimming the profits no longer trusted her so he thought he was doing his daughter a favour the big parts eg engines and gearbox he sell to polish contact who buys engines in bulk and exports wheels and tyres to local breakers yard who has a tyre company in grounds wiring and batteries weigh in also weigh in shell and any items like lights radios sat nav sd cards hands free kits ecus my partner would advertise and sell but mainly break vans because of deal with polish

what other info do you need as what i told you is evidence they have and they asked me questions and what i said during post is my replys

Does your father in law have accounts and receipts to prove that he obtained the parts he/your partner has sold legitimately?

Has your partners declared her income?

Polish contracts and business, or whether the former partner was trustworthy or not, aren't the issues here - what has been sold on eBay is.

We need you to explain exactly what has been said to you by the employer. Photographs of your children hardly prove that you are a thief. And that seems to be the thing you have spent most time talking about! You may be very upset about them having your personal photographs and accusing you of theft - but please, just answer the questions for now?

yes my father in law buys some of the vehicles at one of the auction branches and all the invoices of parts sold on ebay thats his record ebay is in his name registered to him

yes my father in law buys some of the vehicles at one of the auction branches and all the invoices of parts sold on ebay thats his record ebay is in his name registered to him

I'm sorry. I'm not sure that I am understanding your answer as being to the question I asked you. And it definitely doesn't answer one of my questions. I understand that this is difficult for you. And would I be correct in guessing that you have some literacy problems, because it is very difficult for me to understand your posts - dyslexia perhaps? Your posts simply run on one word after another so I cannot easily work out where one thought stops and another begins. Might you think about getting your partner to help you answer the questions so that we can help you better?

We have established that your father in law buys some of his parts from one of the auction branches of the company that you work at. But that isn't really the issue, because the employer knows that he buys from there - so they know that those vehicles and parts are not stolen because they have records to show them being bought.

Are you saying that he has invoices from the seller of the cars (whoever that is) to show that every part he sells on eBay is his part and that he bought all of them? I cannot tell whether you are saying that, or whether you are saying he has invoices for all the parts he sells on eBay.

And I didn't ask you whether eBay is registered to him. I asked you whether your partner has declared the income she is making from this?

--------------

Let me try to explain this. The employer doesn't have to prove that you have stolen the parts. This isn't a court of law, and the evidence that a court is required to have doesn't apply for employers. What the law says is that the employer must be able to form a reasonable belief that you are guilty. That is not the same thing as you actually being guilty at all. All they have to be able to do, for a dismissal to be fair, is show that it looks like you are guilty. And that most people would understand that it looks like you are guilty. Obviously, that is a simple explanation of what the law says, but it is relatively accurate.

Now I don't know for a fact what the employer thinks they have as evidence. So I am making this up, right? But it is absolutely based on what you have said here, with a few guesses added in. But those guesses are based on years and years of doing these sorts of cases, so they won't be bad guesses.

Tony B., is a bloke you know. He's annoyed with you because of something you said or did that you don't even remember. You don't know he's annoyed with you - you think he's a mate. And because he's a mate, he has access to your Facebook pages. Because he's a mate he knows all about your partner selling parts and about what her dad does for a living. So he's told the employer about all of this, given them copies of your Facebook pages and told them where her dads eBay site is. He told them you are stealing the parts from work.

Now the employer has been told that Tony B is someone who knows you well, and he's an honest person and doesn't feel he can cover up for these thefts he knows about. They have an employee whose partner is selling parts that he has stolen from the company, and pretending that it's dads company just to cover it up. It's obvious that there's more money in the house than your wages because on those Facebook pages the kids have toys/holidays/whatever that the employer knows for a fact your couldn't afford. That's what your mate showed them on the Facebook site.

That's something like the sort of thing they believe. And I want to be very clear - it is entirely reasonable for them to believe that. That doesn't mean I think it is true and you are a thief. But I can see how the employer got there, and if they are honest, anyone reading this will also see how the employer got there.

So what I am trying to do is find out from you exactly what they employer has said to you. So I am not interested in whether they have Facebook pages and passed them around or not. I don't care whether they hacked into an account or not. Not right now. What I want to know is exactly what they have said to you. What questions have they asked? What did they say when they showed you the sites? What did they say? As much of it as possible.

And then I want to know whether your father in law can show that the parts sold on eBay tie up to vehicles he has bought. So that means that he has a receipt for every part he has sold, or for the vehicle it came from. If I was to pick one part that was sold, and ask him to show me these, he could do that - tell me where he bought it, show me the receipt, and show me money going out of his bank account. And then he could show me the invoice to the person who bought it, and the money coming in to his account? Because if he has all that, that would be powerful evidence for you.

Then, your partners place in all this. She is being paid for selling the parts - what exactly does she do? She just sends and receives them? So how does she get money for doing this? Who pays her? Or does money go into her account somehow? Then, does she declare this income? I've asked you that several times now. Because if she is declaring the money she is earning that is very, very powerful evidence that everything is above board and honest. But if she hasn't, that leaves a lot of questions about her honesty - and by implication, about your honesty.

Even worse, possibly, if she is claiming any means tested benefits, because however this has come to light, your employer won't know about benefits claimed, but they or anybody else (like the person I suspect who told them) could report her for fraud. You don't have to know someone has benefits to report them and it's likely it would be investigated to see whether she has benefits that would be affected by earnings.

What things look like shouldn't matter. You shouldn't have to prove that you are innocent. But this is the real world, and you do have to prove your are innocent. Or, at least, be able to produce enough evidence to cast serious doubt on you being guilty.

Do you understand what I am saying, and why the questions I am asking are so important?