Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Panther Logistics Delivery man taking photo inside house


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2669 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

A short while ago I had a mattress that I'd bought from an online retailer delivered to my house by Panther Logistics.

The delivery process went OK

- they emailed and texted me to give a date and time window for the delivery and they arrived when they said they would.

 

 

They took the New mattress upstairs to the bedroom where it needed to go,

but much to my surprise,

one of the delivery men then quickly whipped out a device which had a camera function from his pocket (not sure if it was a mobile phone, an actual camera or something else) and said he would just take a photo of the mattress in the room before I could even query what he was doing.

 

 

After he had done so I asked why,

and he muttered something about proof of delivery. Is this legal?

I thought you needed the owners permission to take photos inside a privately owned property.

 

I am having another mattress delivered by Panther Ligistics (from the same retailer) tomorrow,

this time for our master bedroom (the previous delivery was for a spare bedroom)

and I feel creeped out about the delivery man wanting to take a photo of our bedroom.

 

 

Can I insist that they don't?

I certainly don't mind signing for the delivery,

but last time there was no physical paperwork as all as all communications were by email or text.

 

Any advice welcome.

Thank you in advance for any insight into this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand your issue

 

 

I can also understand the issues these compnies have with people trying to do them over too.

 

 

TBH I cant see it actually 'does' you any real harm.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply dx.

 

 

I can also understand that delivery companies like to have proof that they have delivered.

 

 

But why a photo taken inside my house?

Why not take a photo of the outside of my house taken from the roadside and my signature on some sort of gizmo or piece of paper?

 

 

I feel it's an invasion of my personal privacy,

especially without having been asked if I mind.

 

 

I have heard of delivery firms taking photos of front doors,

bug I think taking a photo inside someone's house is more intrusive.

 

It may not do me any actual harm as such, but it does make me feel uncomfortable.

 

.... should I tidy up the bedroom?!

Link to post
Share on other sites

yes totally understand.

 

 

here mate I've done this letter for you and me to sign and take with you...

cant be that difficult can it...

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so if I write out a letter saying something like

 

Received with thanks, item such and such, delivered by Panther Logistics, on date and time,

 

My signature and address and date alongside....

 

That sort of thing?

 

Sorry.... I can't seem to make quotes happen on my iPad while typing here, or any other characters fir that matter.

 

Is there any risk that they might not leave the mattress if I don't agree to them taking a photo? And what if they take a photo against my wishes even if I offer to provide a signed statement confirming delivery?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just ask them before they enter if they intend to take pictures inside your house and state that you do not consent to it.

They can then load mattress back on van and you are free to shop elsewhere. Its just their prof that the have not only delivered, but I would guess installed the mattress. Had same thing when gas man installed cooker. He took picks of cooker space showing gas lines etc and then cooker installed in space. Its because some people are sc***mers and the delivery agents need to protect themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there any laws on photography by strangers gong intoi private homes? Perhaps I should google!

 

Maybe I should just tell them to leave the mattress on my Drive and my husband and I will carry the thing in! I don't really care if they take a photo of my Drive!! Wonder what their bosses would say to that? That sort of photo of proof of delivery wouldn't work much in their favour.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Grumpy.

But I really need the mattress

- I am having some back pain and I am hoping this mattress will help.

I've had to wait a bit already to get it and it's one that is made to order.

It would be hugely inconvenient if they took it away.

 

 

Thinking this through I think I will ask them to take it upstairs and leave it on the landing.

 

 

I will ask them not to take pictures inside my house at that point, but if they insist I will let them photograph the landing as it is an overall empty type if area without personal belongings and doesn't feel as intrusive.

 

 

It's up to me to tell them where to put it!

I will then query this process out of interest with Panther Logistics.

 

Interestngly Panther advise you in their email to ensure that the delivery guys have clear access to the part of the hose where the delivery item will go etc

 

 

but they don't state other aspects of the delivery process such as taking photos up front.

I think they should do so if that's their usual process and also seek consent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Grumpy, I have also already paid for the mattress. If they took it away because I said no photo, it could turn into a major hassle to get it redelivered in a manner I'm comfortable with, or failing that getting a refund and shopping elsewhere!

 

Have other people had snaps being taken of bigger items delivered into their homes? Is this a new thing? I hadn't come across this intrusive practice before.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Grumpy, I have also already paid for the mattress. If they took it away because I said no photo, it could turn into a major hassle to get it redelivered in a manner I'm comfortable with, or failing that getting a refund and shopping elsewhere!

 

Have other people had snaps being taken of bigger items delivered into their homes? Is this a new thing? I hadn't come across this intrusive practice before.

 

I doubt it is company policy for delivery staff to take pictures. They just need a signature to confirm delivery.

 

I suspect that the Panther delivery person had other reasons for taking the picture, but i would be speculating what the reason was. It could just be that this one delivery person had a complaint made against them about deliveries and they are taking pictures for evidence in case they have a problem with their employers. A lot of these delivery companies don't have good relationships with their delivery staff and expect a volume of deliveries across a large area to be made within times that are unrealistic. If they are given say 5 minutes time window for a delivery to a house, then they might want to evidence that they put the item in a customers upstairs bedroom, so it took a bit longer.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unclebulgaria67, but they didn't ask for my signature last time when they delivered the first mattress. Thats why, besides feeling uncomfortable with delivery men I don't know taking picture(s) inside my house, I'm puzzled overall by the fact that a delivery company should expect their drivers to do this - as the delivery guy had led me to believe.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unclebulgaria67, but they didn't ask for my signature last time when they delivered the first mattress. Thats why, besides feeling uncomfortable with delivery men I don't know taking picture(s) inside my house, I'm puzzled overall by the fact that a delivery company should expect their drivers to do this - as the delivery guy had led me to believe.

 

I can't see a company asking their drivers to do this, as many people would not be very happy about it.

 

For any future delivery state that you will sign for delivery, but they are not permitted to take pictures as a previous driver did.

 

You could email Panther asking whether it is their companies policy for delivery deliver drivers to take photos inside a customers house.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks unclebulgaria67, that's my intention. But the second mattress is due today - what with Christmas events and so on I haven't yet got round to doing this in a timely fashion. I doubt that I will get a response to an email that I will send shortly to Panther. But I will query this with the comany anyway as I agree, not many people would be happy with this in my view too.

 

I've discussed the situation some more with my husband and we will ask the delivery men to leave the mattress on the landing as we can manage it easily enough from there. I wil ask them not to take photos inside my house but If they insist on taking a photo as a condition of leaving the mattress with us then I will let them as the landing is less of a personal sort of space, but I will query it with Panther for sure.

 

But my fundamental question I suppose is whether it is legal for people you don't know to take photos inside your home, which is your own private property and not for example being rented, without your consent, for whatever reason they give. The first time round they took a photo without even asking for permission and only gave a garbled reason about proof of delivery when I queried why they had photographed the bedroom.

Edited by Dottydoris
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I think that's a good point hightail. My husband thinks they probably also took a picture of our front door with house number alongside.... who knows? I have heard of delivery companies taking photos of front doors and a quick google a few minutes ago threw up a newspaper item which reported last year that people were getting upset about this sort of thing as they felt it was an invasion of privacy. Inside the house is an even bigger invasion of privacy in my view. Have just looked at wiki where there is a page on photography legal issues in the U.K., and bingo, people shouldn't take photos inside a private propert without the owners consent and thy should ask permission in the first place! So perhaps there is a valid assumption that this sort of practice is actually illegal?

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, the delivery has just happened, and it wasn't a particularly pleasant experience. I was just in the process of formulating an email to Panther Group but that has now been ditched and I have spoken to them instead. This is what happened:

 

Two delivery men arrived (within the time window given so no problem there) and we asked them to put the new mattress up against the wall on the landing. They did this and my husband stood at the end of the landing with man one while I was halfway up the stairs with man two. Man one asked my husband if he could take a photo and my husband said no. Man one said he had to and my husband asked why and man one said something about proof of delivery. I said that the mattress could be anywhere and that the photo wasn’t much evidence even though their van probably keeps track of where they are in the world. I said we didn't want photos taken and I would just sign for delivery.

 

Man two said if they couldn't take the photo they would take the mattress out of the house and put it back on the van to return to the depot! I asked again why the photo was so necessary as we were not willing to give permission, man two said that the photo proves the mattress isn't damaged. I said that didn't make sense as they were only taking a photo of the mattress from one side and it was still inside a thick plastic covering. We let them take a photo in order to keep the already paid for mattress but said we wanted to see the photo after it was taken and said we were worried about this invasion of privacy.

 

They showed me the photo - you wouldn't even know if it was of a mattress!

 

They left and I rang Panther as I felt we had been put under duress to allow them to take the photo otherwise they would remove the mattress and take it away. I told the customer services lady on the phone that I wanted to speak to a manager and she put me through to a 'supervisor'. He was very apologetic and said that our experience should never have happened and taking photos against customer wishes in their home is not acceptable and definitely not company/customer policy. He is going to speak to someone at the depot from where the delivery men were subcontracted and he will get back to me. I think he was genuinely taken aback and kept reiterating that what had happened was out of order especially as we had been threatened with having the goods taken away if we didn't agree to photos. I also told him about the previous mattress delivery and that a photo had been taken of the mattress sited in a bedroom before I could even make a comment or ask a question! I said I wanted to be assured that this sort of thing would not continue happening to other people.

 

I also rang the mattress manufacturer and they were appalled. The person I spoke to said they would escalate the matter to a higher level and contact Panther as well. They will inform me of the outcome. The woman I spoke to agreed it was an invasion of privacy and we should not have been threatened with having the mattress taken back.

 

We felt really quite threatened by delivery man two's attitude, even though I said I had some degree of sympathy with their difficult situation if they were acting under orders which is what they repeated several times. I had no clarity about Panthers policies at that moment in time.

 

The silly thing is that the supervisor at Panther who I spoke with said he had already received a couple of uploaded photos on their system (I thought only one had been taken in the end) and he said they were completely useless as proof of any kind - just a white blob in plastic. The previous mattress delivery though will no doubt have had a clearer photo of the mattress as it looked installed in a room as it was taken from a different and more distant angle.

 

I was also asked to sign for the delivery - it's a pity that wasn’t enough.

 

It will be interesting to see what responses I get. I will post more here when I get them in case this experience is useful to anyone.

Edited by Dottydoris
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Old Cogger.

 

I have already spoken to them (as mentioned just above) but I will also formulate an email and send it to the email address with the FAO you have given. I will do that later this afternoon as I would like to see what response I get back from Panther before close of business today. No matter what the response is though, I will put it all in writing anyway so that they have it formally 'on record' and having the CEO's name on it might be useful in ensuring that the company tightens and sticks to the policies they say they have in place!

 

I do think this is quite an important issue and that many people out there wouldn't be happy with the experience we've had.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The phone they take the picture on will have it location confirmed and tied in to the piccy by GPS so even a rubbish picture will be tagged to your address and location within a metre. They could use PDA's that do ther same but a phone is much cheaper and does other things to boot. I would suggest that the subcontract drivers are told one thing when the policy as written down is slightly different but as they are under so much pressure they will be introuble if they then took the time to deviate from the norm. Basically you are suffering because someone has thought up of a way for limiting the company losses by dishonesty and carelessness but they dindt consider the importnace of the feelings of the person thay are employed to serve, namely the recipient. they may work for the company that sends the goods but you pay for it all, directly or indirectly and hopefully some notice will be taken regarding your discomfort at having your personal space intruded upon in this manner. It might be pertinent to ask who else sees these pictures and what happens to them after they become redundant. The DPA may help you here as it goves you a small measure of protection and you can question them about that if you dont get some satisfactory answers to your concerns.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...