Hi. Looking for some advice regarding a reconditioned engine which has failed.

We have a Citroen C4 grand Picasso which in February 2016 had engine failure due to carbon build up in the oil system.

On taking it to a garage we were quoted £4000 for the work as it required a replacement engine, turbo, injectors ect,

On collecting the car it turned out the original injectors had been refitted to the new engine

however the garage still attempted to charge us £4000.

I argued it out and they then reduced the charge accordingly.

I was given a warranty from the garage of 12 months or 12000 miles as long as the engine had a service by them at 1000 miles which it did.

At 9 months after fitment and 11231 miles it began to make a strange noise as if there was no oil circulating.

As the original garage had tried to rip me off with the injectors cost previously I had lost trust in them and felt if I returned the car direct to them they would wangle their way out of a repair under the warranty and blame it on something else.

I therefore asked another qualified mechanic just to have listen to the engine at his garage, not to take any tools to it or do ant work, just listen to the noise and give his opinion.

He listened to it and stated there was definatley a serious problem and it needed to be returned to the garage where the warranty was held.

I had the vehicle recovered to the garage and when I spoke to the owner he said it would have to be returned to the garage who did the work, some 120 miles away.

at this point I was now being told the garage who I had presumed had done the work and who I had paid over £3600 to had not actually done any of the work and had outsourced it without consulting me.

I told the owner it was his responsibility to sort it as I had paid him

he towed it the 120 miles back to the place that had done the work,

a very scruffy, unorganised back street garage whom I would have never considered taking my vehicle to if I had the chioice.

I looked at the warranty paperwork I had been given and on close inspection the original garage had actually put his business card over the companys stamp and photocopied it to give to me thus hiding the fact it had been done elsewhere.

When the garage who had done the work looked at it they immediately came back to me and said because I had taken it to another garage first that the warranty was invalid.

I explained they had done no work on it but they refused to take liability.

The guy who had towed the vehicle from the garage then sent me an invoice for £360 charge to tow the vehicle and stated as it was out of warranty I had to pay for recovery.

They would not release the vehicle until we had paid this money but I needed to get my car fixed so had no choice.

We paid the £360 and had the vehicle recovered by someone else back to near where we live.

An engine specialist has now removed and stripped the engine and found there has been several oil leaks on the reconditioned engine which has caused oil starvation to the crankshaft.

Although when the noise started we checked the oil level and it was at half and no oil warning lights on.

Obviously it has not been built properly if it has so many leaks but I am now faced with a £2500 bill to replace the engine again.

where do I stand with the garage?

are they within their right to have some other garage do the work without my permission and then cover up their details on the warranty with their own??

no work was done by the first garage I took it to for a verbal opinion so can this justify making my warranty invalid??

Thanks

Small Claims Court. No work done on engine and refusing to honour warranty because another mechanic offered an opinion!!!!!????

Time to stop kid gloves with cowboys and take them to court. Send them a letter before action and follow the process.

warranties arnt worth the paper they are written on

your axe here is to use the CRA.

as a side issue, did you pay for any of this debacle with a credit card?

I paid for the £3600 in February with a visa debit card and paid the £360 recovery charge by credit card 3 weeks ago.

Is my best route to do a chargeback?...I know its also possible with a debit card as I have recently done one for a camera which never arrived however not sure on the time constraint

Absolutely. As DX has pointed out above, the warranty is a load of nonsense. Frankly, why you ever agreed to get involved with a warranty which only gave 12,000 miles protection on what was meant to be a brand-new engine for £4000, beats me.

Did the garage have the right to outsource work? Yes, absolutely. You contracted with them to do a certain job – but as far as I can see, you didn't make any conditions about where or who should do the work. However, you contracted for a proper job to be done for your money and it seems that it wasn't done.

You can learn quite a bit about the attitude of garages and second-hand car dealers – and the kind of attitude you should take in return from here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472502-Ford-Evans-Halshaw-dealership-refusing-to-cover-vehicle-with-warranty&p=4978762#post4978762

You are protected by the Consumer Rights Act. It seems that the work was not done with reasonable skill and care. You should be entitled to have whatever money it takes to put your car into the condition that it would have been if the contract had been carried out satisfactorily. Furthermore, you are entitled to recover any losses or expenses that you have been put to as a result of the garage's breach of contract.

Have a look through the sub forum to see the way people are being led around by the nose. Learn some lessons.

Make sure that you have full documentary evidence of everything – and photographs of any damaged or leaking parts of possible. You need to build up a thoroughly detailed file.

Given the attitude of the garage, I would make a very rapid decision about whether you were prepared to bring a legal action in the Small Claims Court. Frankly, if you are not prepared to do that then probably you won't get anywhere.

On the basis that you would be prepared to bring a small claim then I think that I would get complete costings for a proper repair – plus a list of all the expenses that you have been put to so far. Get two independent quotes for the work. I would send the garage a letter detailing everything that has happened and what you're looking for. I think that you quite reasonable to say that you now want the work done at a garage of your choice. You should invite the garage to visit you and to form his own view of what the work is likely to cost but in any event, tell them that if you don't have his full written agreement within 14 days that you will start a legal action against him and without further notice.

If you not prepared to take this action then don't bluff it. It won't work.

If the garage says that he must be given an opportunity to repair, I think you would be reasonable to say that he has destroyed confidence in him and that you are not prepared to place yourself in his hands again. Whatever the situation, do not get involved in any discussion which prolongs the 14 days. The 14 days you give him allows him to make representations to you, to consider the position, and to agree in writing – or else not to agree it all. Don't allow him to divert you into any protracted negotiation.

The secret of these things is to make a decision and then to set deadlines and then to be resolute about sticking to those deadlines. It is the only way to get the other side to realise that things are getting out of hand.

If the garage is a small independent and you take them to court there's a risk that they would close the company a start trading next day under a different name, making the money unrecoverable.

That's why a would try a chargeback first.

It's very common for small garages to change name and owner overnight to avoid paying a ccj.

The £4000 quote wasn't just for an enine it was also for other parts which ad failed ie turbo, injextort, new cam belt kit ect plus labour. ...The engine cost itself was about £2500 but only had a 12 month warranty as it was a reconditioned one not brand new.

I will send the garage a letter to outline the inspection findings and request for payment to cover repairs and new parts as required along with other losses which have occurred due to vehicle being off the road. If they do not pay within 7 days I will contact the bank to process a chargeback

Is anyone aware of or able to advise on chargeback. ...reading about them says theres a 120 day limit from transaction date but in some cases upto 540 days?

120 days from when you became aware

but that cant exceed 540 days

ok Thanks

How does the procedure work... I take it I put my case to Visa and send them receipts / evidence and proof of the engine failure. Do they then present the case to the garage and then make a decision on the case?

What happens if they refuse a chargeback can I then still proceed to small claims?

Don't expect much help you much joy or much enthusiasm from Visa. Although you have the rights on your side, I'm sure that they will raise all sorts of obstacles and all sorts of technicalities.

By all means try. Will be interested to get your feedback here but frankly if you want an easy life then just sue.

to do a chargeback you ring your bank that issued the card not visa

Yes sorry aware of that just worded wrong in last post.

Just weighing up best way to tackle it....small claims or chargeback

well if chargeback don't work

then try other options.

Contacted barclays bank who have stated that as the card payment was done by chip and pin it is not governed by visa chargeback rules

however if it had have been done over the phone or Internet they would be able to do a chargeback..I find that a little baffling anyone know any info about this?

Phoned financial ombudsman who said that is completely wrong (not surprising)

however falls out of time scale as there is a 120 day limit from the transaction date...

...small claims it is then.

no its 120 days from when you became aware - but that time limit cant exceed 540 days from purchase

pers id be ringing barclays back as they are wrong

sadly we often find this out with bank staff.

dx

I've spoken to three different managers of the dispute team tonight. All have said they are not willing to process due to the time limit being exceeded.

The vehicle has now been fully repaired at my expense. I have written to the garage who did the original work and demanded a payment of £3502 to be paid within 10 days to cover the repair and out of pocket expenses.....he has now writen to me asking me for proof of inspection reports and any evidence to support my claim.....

Do I forward this now or still just maintain he has to pay within 10 days and keep evidence incase he fails to pay and I issue a court summons.

Anyone advise on above post?

Why would you not provide your evidence?

Why would you not provide your evidence?

Was just wondering whether I provide all the evidence ie transcripts of recorded calls I have....statements from other mechanics.....or just the receipt and report from the garage who have carried out repairs for me

I would provide the evidence if you want to be paid

A bit confused here-

-if recon engine, who actually reconditioned YOUR engine or supplied recon.

At that price I would have thought it a works recon engine which would be covered by manufacturers warranty.

Most makers used to supply what they called a "Short Motor" which was a block with new / recon crankshaft and new pistons.

Local garage to do cylinder head work.

I took car to a local garage and they said they could source a recon engine (block and cylinder head) and fit all the ancillaries from my existing engine.

It wasnt until this engine failed in november that i actually found out ALL the work had been done by a different garage.

Update of this case:

I have commenced small claims proceedings and now at the stage where the defendant has just today submitted his defence.

There is nothing contained within the defence apart from a few lies about facts however these dont really give him any further hope.

What has concerned me is his solicitor has put a note on the bottom of the defence saying they are submitting a part 20. If liable the defendant will pursue the other gargae who did the work on his behalf for the cost of the claim. They are not introducing the third party at present but will if they lose the claim.

If i was successful in my claim and judgement made would i then have to wait for payment whilst the defendant and part 20 fight it out, or does payment still have to be made and then they deal between themselves?

Can anyone advise on last post?