Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


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  1. #1741

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    I'm sure Mrs M has said in the past she would not stand in the next Gen Elec. Don't know why they're making such a noise about Mrs M not standing. I bet she can't wait to get away from the nasty colleagues.


  2. #1742
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by determindator View Post
    I'm sure Mrs M has said in the past she would not stand in the next Gen Elec. Don't know why they're making such a noise about Mrs M not standing. I bet she can't wait to get away from the nasty colleagues.
    I have no idea whats going on in her mind other than her clear intent to reduce any choices available.

    I think the ERG believe that for a general election

    * They will have a confirmed hard Brexiter leading the Tory Party replacing May
    * Corbyn as a hard brexiter leading a carefully 'selected' and well whipped Labour party

    Hard brexit must seem almost a certainty to them ..

    Putin must be very pleased.


  3. #1743

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ...

    I keep thinking that and then it does get worse. I can't believe what I'm reading in the media these days, it's like watching a slow motion train crash.


  4. #1744

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ...

    I keep thinking that and then it does get worse. I can't believe what I'm reading in the media these days, it's like watching a slow motion train crash.
    Article 50 will be extended, because UK Parliament does not accept Mays deal or a no deal. A simple act of Parliament would be passed to change the date of the EU withdrawal bill from 29 March 2019 to a date to be decided.

    At some point referendum number 2 will take place, as politicians reach a stalemate.


  5. #1745

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Do you think Europe will accept inability to reach a consensus as a reason to extend, UB?

    I think a second referendum is the way to go, but neither May nor Corbyn seem to be in favour of that.


  6. #1746
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Do you think Europe will accept inability to reach a consensus as a reason to extend, UB?

    I think a second referendum is the way to go, but neither May nor Corbyn seem to be in favour of that.
    I dont believe that the EU will consider it reason,
    Especially when you consider that the ERG/hard brexiters next move will likely be to fillibuster any legislation that makes any moves away from hard brexit possible (talk it to death - runs out of time until default fall out hard brexit in 3 months), of form of which is effectively what May has been doing to prevent a peoples vote.

    Corbyn would undoubtedly 'support' that (especially if he can do it passively (aka sit on his hands and do nowt but quietly threaten his own MPs)) as it will achieve his goals and he can say 'i didn't do it' - which would of course in reality and all but weasel words - be a lie.


  7. #1747

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    It's unreal, isn't it? They'd rather ruin the country with a hard Brexit than back down.


  8. #1748
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by determindator View Post
    They worked out keeping Mrs M was the right thing to do then.

    Just been watching the Apprentice, very similar circumstances.

    Lord Sugar and Mrs M together negotiating awesome

    Except that May would be so hamstrung by her backers conflicting requirements, she would undoubtedly hold out for taking on the cameraman who is due to retire next week as her apprentice..
    ... and accept no one else.

    I dont think she would find sugars response sweet at all.

    BUT yes, I do think May is probably the least worst of the available options - at the moment.


  9. #1749
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    It's unreal, isn't it? They'd rather ruin the country with a hard Brexit than back down.
    I think its bringing to the fore just how dysfunctional our Parliament is, despite it also possibly being one of the least worst options.

    I think I got voting for the status quo of first past the post very wrong ...
    I thought at the time that the last thing we needed was a change tying up parliament for years which might not bring significant improvements

    I was the opposite of right on that occasion - it turns out it was quite possibly everything we needed ...


  10. #1750
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by unclebulgaria67 View Post
    Article 50 will be extended, because UK Parliament does not accept Mays deal or a no deal. A simple act of Parliament would be passed to change the date of the EU withdrawal bill from 29 March 2019 to a date to be decided.

    At some point referendum number 2 will take place, as politicians reach a stalemate.

    A change of date will require the agreement of the EU, and that seems unlikely without a change of government or a fresh referendum
    and How would a change of government actually change anything?

    The apparent ERG plans to fillibuster anything that might prevent us falling off the cliff into hard brexit in 3 months, along with the totally split government, parties, and country make either a difficult process to get through.
    .. let alone them voting against their own party in a no confidence vote as a last resort .. which Corbyn would support as it would mean the failure of hard brexit was threatened

    Party splits at this time are like the May no confidence vote - just damaging distractions, and would take MAJOR splits from both sides to do anything possible - say a dozen cabinet shadow cabinet (class) Mp's plus a hundred or so other MP's

    Trouble is that only the ERG seem to approach that level of organisation and numbers.

    If Labour splits - Corbyn will press to have them deselected - although he probably will certainly work hard too anyway before the next GE, and what could they do against Corbyns remaining MP's and the ERG?

    Its a mess.
    There is little democracy left in our entirely dysfunctional parliament, and far too few real democratic politicians.

    What to do?


  11. #1751

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Ref your first sentence, TJ, the Guardian don't think the EU will play along.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exit-timetable


  12. #1752

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    [I]What to do?[I]

    Some of us dream that the sensible grown ups will take over...

    They keep saying that the majority of parliament don't want a hard Brexit, but they seem to keep being stitched up by the governments ridiculous games and manoeuvering.


  13. #1753
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Ref your first sentence, TJ, the Guardian don't think the EU will play along.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exit-timetable
    I'm sure they have had enough of the UK's 'aspirations' of cake and eat it from both main parties.
    They will see the events as purely UK power politics/special interests with no honest negotiation.

    The EU are starting to see the benefits of companies and investment moving to the EU from the UK, while we see planned lorry parks and businesses told to stockpile.

    The EU pain will be short and relatively small, unlike ours
    (ours being the population NOT the Brexit politicians with interests in the few benefiting businesses or personal agendas).

    How long would anyone here have gone on negotiating with a potential business partner or supplier in these circumstances?
    They would have had their 'offer' thrown out and a letter before actionicon sent long ago.


  14. #1754

    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Yes, companies are moving. The company a friend of ours works for lost patience after the messing about this week and announce that it's moving from London to Paris, with the resulting loss of jobs.


  15. #1755
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    [I]What to do?[I]

    Some of us dream that the sensible grown ups will take over...

    They keep saying that the majority of parliament don't want a hard Brexit, but they seem to keep being stitched up by the governments ridiculous games and manoeuvering.
    Lets NEVER forget that without the so called 'oppositions' ridiculous games and maneuverings, the Party 'in power' would never have got away with their ridiculous games and maneuverings.

    Bare in mind that from what we can make of Corbyns intentions, its just to replace May with Corbyn with the same 'renegotiate' some half arsed deal or crap out BS

    Gets us nowhere.

    I seriously question Labour would win an election as things stand anyway.
    .. and where would that leave us?

    ... maybe rid of Corbyn - which is a thought ...


  16. #1756
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    Arrow Re: Article 50 Discussion

    .. although I do seriously doubt Corbyn wants a general election, he just want to be handed the keys

    Its seems almost certain the Tories would choose a general election in the case of no confidence, rightly IMO as Corbyn has NO mandate from the people, albeit wrongly as it would solve nothing and likely make things worse.

    The only other option is a fresh referendum before a vote of no confidence happens
    ... and of course May, the ERG and Corbyn are opposed to that .. which probably means its in the Nations best interests NOT those politicians.

    which is why the ERG might push for a no confidence with Corbyn ..
    A general election which will of a certainty resolve nothing
    rather than a referendum, which could


  17. #1757
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    Default Re: Article 50 Discussion

    i must be missing something significant

    Although I dont doubt partnering with the DUP and ERG is quite acceptable to Corbyn whatever the cost outside his goals, I find it hard to believe the majority of the PLP would see it that way, or the majority of labour supporters


    The SNP, libdems etc have already said they would support labour in a vote of no confidence,

    but it seems to me a general election would make a peoples vote LESS likely - especially with a Hard Brexiter at the helm of both 'main' parties in the election!!! and we come out of the election with the situation largely the same as it was before it started....

    What am i missing?


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