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What is the point in having a once in a life time vote if people are not happy with the outcome.

 

Who said one vote lasts a life time. The referendum was not binding on parliament.

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what democratic vote? hoodwinked by the brexit politicians - or should that be liars with their big red bus!

if it had of been a real democratic vote then like in normal elections, UK expats and citizens overseas at the time of the referendum would have been allowed a vote. they weren't. not really a vote for the will of ALL THE people then.

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what democratic vote? hoodwinked by the brexit politicians - or should that be liars with their big red bus!

if it had of been a real democratic vote then like in normal elections, UK expats and citizens overseas at the time of the referendum would have been allowed a vote. they weren't. not really a vote for the will of ALL THE people then.

 

Expats were allowed to vote if they managed to register in time, at least those in Europe who have been away less than 15 years, I think it is. But it was very short notice of having the vote.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Expats were allowed to vote if they managed to register in time, at least those in Europe who have been away less than 15 years, I think it is. But it was very short notice of having the vote.

 

HB

 

2 millions UK expats were not able to vote. so if they had of, which is one of the most important principles of a democracy, then the referdum would have had a different result.

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What untruths would they be ?.

 

all of them.

 

I think its long past time the Brexiteers were required to show some progress on all their false promises, rather than them seemingly conveniently forgetting the many many many many times they have shown to be lies.

But of course they wont. BUT all those of concience should simple demand some evidence from them before at every one of their factless posts.

 

 

So for my last post here at this site:

 

Lets put onto the sidelines and the bottom of this post:

 

* the Lies about extra money for the NHS when they only intend to destroy it

(demonstrated day by day and month by month)

 

* the lies about bringing back democracy and power to British parliament when they demonstrate they want to use 'Henty VIIi'Royal prerogative to bypass it, and rig the committees if they cant

 

* The lie that they intend to increase workers rights and environmental protections when it has been shown to be that these rights will be the first victims of the 'great repeal'

 

* the lies that the immigrant workers are any drag on our society or anything but a boon, and even that most of the immigration issues could easily have been dealt with withing the EU (including the existing rights to send back any who aren't in work within 3 months, let alone the renogotaitions on migration that Camereon could and SHOULD have done rather than protecting BANKERS

 

 

 

I'll link the rest again - but lets start with our Brexit negotiator, who says all is going well, when everyone can see that its actually going nowhere:

 

No newspapers or bloggs, lets quote Conservativehome

 

https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

 

Published: July 14, 2016

David Davis: Trade deals. Tax cuts. And taking time before triggering Article 50. A Brexit economic strategy for Britain

 

Read all the linked article carefully - and quickly - it might vanish.

Here is just one of MANY choice slices of Bulls rump from Davies

 

"So be under no doubt: we can do deals with our trading partners, and we can do them quickly. I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners. I would expect that the negotiation phase of most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months. So within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. Trade deals with the US and China alone will give us a trade area almost twice the size of the EU, and of course we will also be seeking deals with Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, the UAE, Indonesia – and many others."

 

 

When reality has shown he cant even negotiate with our existing partners,

 

and him and Fox have demonstrated UTTER FAILURE with ALL the others.

 

 

Is he is a manipulating liar? or is is just an incompetent who is utterly clueless?

 

I cant say, but it certainly aint as he described.

 

 

 

I think the Conservative members comments describle it so well:

"Wow - this hasn't aged well."

"It is truly astounding that this man had so little understanding of trade negotiations. We are being led by fools."

 

 

 

 

And more on the many other LIES here (CAMBRIDGE news)

All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong

 

"Even the Brexit Secretary is saying very different things today than he was just a year ago

While it's still not clear how the negotiations will conclude, we already know that many of the promises and predictions made were just wrong.

Even in the immediate aftermath of the vote on June 23 last year, leading politicians including Brexit Secretary David Davis were making declarations that they do not stand by today.

Here are the things we were told that have been conclusively shown to be wrong"

 

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/brexit-cambridge-wrong-european-union-13602114

 

 

 

 

 

So there it is from Conservativepartyhome and Cambridge news

 

and more heres more which might be consider a more traditional source

 

One by one the promises and predictions of the Brexiteers are collapsing

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/09/one-one-promises-and-predictions-brexiteers-are-collapsing

 

 

 

thats all folks.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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  • 1 year later...

Well here we are with no real progress after all this time.

 

David Davies/Liam Fox et seem to be making a careers of not doing nowt but dropping spanners in the works at best if they do turn up, but generally not even bothering to turn up if the brexit non negotiations under Davies' watch and lack of anything constructive from Him, Fox and Really Smug are anything to go by.

Mind you, I'm sure he and they all consider the blocking of any real negotiations a great success.

 

May is in a completely untenable position with

Her red lines

DUP's 10 vote red lines

Tory and labour Brexiters red lines

EU red lines

Labour red lines

et all

 

and all apparently completely at odds with each other even at these late stages even though even with this chaos, nobody seems to give a crap about the 10's of millions of remainers and neutralers red lines.

 

with that and

 

Labour currently solidly on the the we CAN have our cake and eat it fantasy wagon of Johnson et al with their 6 tests. Of course thats just a ploy and Corbyn wants out, so unquestionably doesn't think those tests should apply to HIMself, and will have anyone who questions that deselected if he can.

 

Lib Dems demonstrating their total lack of any real leadership qualities and their doing a Davies and not turning up for a crucial vote is unforgivable.

 

... We can only hope that the SNP field candidates as far south as London.

 

 

 

SO, the end result is either:

the apparently preferred solution: simply dragging out the 'exit' until its someone elses problem, with perhaps a fudge temporary special case for NI which the Scots and probably Welsh would also demand.

 

... more likely: dragged on until the plebiscite loses the last small amount of its attention and race to the bottom laws can be snuck through un-noticed, or the people are saved at the last moment by King Arthur returning in Britains hour of greatest need to chop the heads of all the current english politicians and with the aid of Merlin, magically resolve the issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

or

 

Hard Brexit with an irish border, which will probably give Northern Ireland the impetus for moves to re-unite the island of Ireland within the EU,

which will also add new impetus to the Scot and possibly even Welsh independence movements.

 

 

 

and where would that leave little england?

.. as a tin pot state surrounded by EU states and EU state territorial waters which it would have to ask to run its unaffordable nuclear subs through,

Fast running out of stockpiled food and medicine,

with fracking poisoned environment with the profits gone abroad

and Southern motorways turned from short term unofficial car parks at rush hours into long term official lorry parks ...

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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Oh and for any that still think that its the EU pi-55-ing about

Heres whats Rabbs last minute rush to 'save' the talks entailed ...

 

"Raab not only ruled out any kind of Northern Ireland-only backstop, however hedged with caveats of it being unlikely to be used,

but also reopened some issues that the EU side believed had already been settled."

 

 

You don't need assurances or signed agreements, just trust that we'll aspire to do 'the right thing' say the UK team

 

 

Hoist yourselves by your own petards, respond the EU team.

 

 

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-backstop/uk-eyed-customs-deal-to-avoid-northern-ireland-brexit-backstop-eu-sources-idUKKCN1MP13I

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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Raab is making it hard for the EU negotiators to trust our government with all this talk of going back on deals everyone thought were agreed.

 

If you look through it, the Uk negotiators and politicians stance throughout has been

 

* Dont turn up or say nowt on the odd occasion you do bother going (David Davies)

 

* Report to UK newspapers that what the EU reported has been agreed would never be agreed (repeatedly)

 

* Continuously insist on terms like 'aspire to' rather than 'will' in any wording then say No we didnt agree to that when the EU put it in firmer agreement terms

 

 

Explains why you see so very little of this on the EU news services (Nothing to really report) despite it dominating the UK's.

Although it is important, It really is far less important to the EU.

 

 

 

While the UK is hoping that the EU will implode if the UK just drags things out long enough,

Everyone else can see that it IS the UK thats imploding and the Union MAY very well not survive the next 10 years whoever gets in power, and almost certainly wont outside the EU.

 

New slogan: The UK MAY not survive May or not May. (its not quite WILL yet)

 

 

 

Well done Cameron .. and all mainly to pacify (LOL) Right wing Capitalist hard-liners who's only real goals is to line their own pockets faster

that cause supported by foreign powers who want the UK off the world stage..

.. and left wing fanatics who still think Stalinist and McCarthyism (oppressive dictatorship) ways are the way to go jumping on the bandwagon.

Well they all must all think its beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

 

 

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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Too True HB

as it reports, the EU have been very open with their reporting (Genuinely strong and stable throughout)

 

The EU's stance iseems to be three simple goals

 

1. The UK leaves with minimum disruption to the EU

2. The EU's borders, members and trade and is protected from the UK as it is from other external nations.

3. The UK pays what it has already agreed to pay and already owes (seems least important to EU)

 

and until the above is achieved, and the baseline defined, a trade deal is really undefinable.

.. and why would anyone agree a one sided deal with someone who has reneged on prior agreements and will do nothing more than 'aspire' to meet agreement terms.

 

 

 

I have no idea what the Uk's various stances could be summarised as other than:

We have our cake and eat it, we do whatever we like whenever we like, and you just think yourself fortunate whatever we do.

 

Which of course leave any other nation or group of nations, let alone a far larger one, little choice but to set the three goals at the top of this post.

 

 

 

Notes on borders:

 

Without a UK free trade deal equivalent to being a member - cake and eat it - Ireland is of course a choice between #

the EU has a border between its member nations

the UK has a border between its member nations

Ireland has a border between its nations.

The island of Ireland unites either in the EU or in the UK (and there is apparently no significant will whatsoever for Eire to leave the EU and become part of the UK. NI is far more split)

 

Northern ireland voted to remain in the EU (like Scotland)

 

Should the Island of Ireland choose to unify in the EU or NI just get a special deal, addressing at least temporarily that issue

then Scotland at least will demand the same, which will bring the issue back again.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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possibly crucial correction

 

then Scotland at least will demand the same, which will bring the issue back again - albeit less 'urgent and immediate' of course

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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Well, that went well today.

 

 

 

Having left it late to present any proposals at all for the UK's plans for Brexit, May now finds that Europe doesn't like the plan for Northern Ireland. Europe is starting to plan for a no deal Brexit.

 

 

and even that doesn't address the Uk's problems.

 

for example

Fantasy brexiters are saying 'well we just unilaterally announce a free trade deal with Eire, or just not impose any border controls and we'll just dump the EU, carry on as normal with Eire and trade under WTO rules.

 

 

Well, no you wont.

WTO rules are still rules. Under WTO RULES, you cant just unilaterally give preferential status to an external state.

Implement preferential status for Eire and the UK cant trade under WTO.

 

Simple as.

 

Strange that these highly paid Brexit politicians and business men SEEM to be unaware of this.

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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Here we go, we could need a visa for each European country we want to visit, never mind the problems British expats in Europe could have.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/17/france-says-britons-could-need-visa-to-visit-after-no-deal-brexit

 

 

Got to get agreement for planes to fly and land before thats an issue HB :/

 

 

and May takes the only option open to her and looks to extend the transition period from 2 - 3 years, batting any 'resolutions' (sic) into the long grass, and which will enrage the Brexiters.

 

The brexiters will shout: We will have to carry on paying the EU rather than giving an extra 350M a week to the NHS

- shame that the real figures showing how much we actually profit from being in the EU that extra year, and how much it will really COST the UK taxpayers to leave will not be headlined

 

The brexiters will shout: We will have to continue abiding by the ECJ

-Why aren't they asked: Why is that an issue? Why would you even notice whether it was there or not? What do you REALLY want to do that might/will a problem to the ECJ?

 

 

The brexiters will shout: We cant do our own deals.

WELL - What deals are they Fox and Davies and Johnson and sMUG? What deals are they?

Where are the queues and easy deals Fox/Davies/Gove/Johnson?/Smug? Anyone?

 

Why are you moving your business interests into the EU Smug?

Why is THE Tory Brexit grandee applying for French citizenship?

 

 

 

What about the border issues (not just NI)

- Given that the Tories have had 18 months to implement and demonstrate the Borders systems that they are claiming are simple, already work and would mean no border is required, and will be needed whatever the result

.. are actually not ready - and apparently no real work has been done on them ....

 

--- Surely not on the basis of the Brexiter LIE that a free trade agreement with the EU keeping all benefits at no cost being the easiest and quickest deal in history ...

 

 

and Corbyn of course says:

Put us in power and We will make a quick easy deal with the EU

FFS - Corbyn - Just the same old Brexiter lies we have heard before

Put the detailed policies and plans where your mouth is

You know what IS patriotic?

Loving your country enough to care for its old and poor, fund its institutions, unite its communities, feed, house and educate its children, restore and live in balance with its environment, plan with care for its future, build its alliances, and perhaps above all - tell it the truth

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high: taxes, immigration, excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, schools, council services, businesses and roads

They squander taxpayer money by the £thousands on a failed ex-PMs luxury troughing on a plane, rather than feed UK children

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well, that would require EACH country to create their own visa requirements. Same with planes landing, the agreements are between airports and airlines for landing slots, not between countries. Yes, it would be possible for governments to disrupt all of this but it isnt actually an EU matter so threatening things is going beyond their remit and looks like childish hubris

 

 

Here we go, we could need a visa for each European country we want to visit, never mind the problems British expats in Europe could have.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/17/france-says-britons-could-need-visa-to-visit-after-no-deal-brexit

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