Dear forum memebers thank you for stopping by to check out this thread .

I left a company that i was working for sometime in June. I worked there as an engineer and had a van for works use.

On my last day i handed my van back in same condition as received. We inspected the van and manager was even surprised that i washed it inside out and it was all good.

We had a informal meeting with the company owners , they wished me all the best and that was that.

3 months later i received my final pay payslip and discovered that they made a deduction of £350 from my final pay .

I emailed the company director and he said it was for van a damage.

I replied via email that i was not aware of any damages to the van and it was illegal for them to deduct that money, to which he replied that van was damaged and its a fact , stating that apparently i claimed more hours vs the tracker and also

that i left to there competitor even though my contract prevents me from doing so. This was the case! they tried to legally stop me , but could not which at the time they where really bitter about.

2 completely irrelevant arguments to my query imho. But he did point out that contract does allow for deductions in case of damages to works vehicle. However as mentioned the van was not damaged as they claim!

At the time of accepting the van i did not sign any paperwork which stated the condition of the van as it was second hand and when i handed the van back they didn't inform me in any formal way of there intention of deducting £350 from my wages, nor did i sign anything stating in which condition i handed the van back to them.

I phoned Acas for advice and they said to take them to small claims court as tribunal claim window is 2 months.

So question is what do you think Gentlemen and Ladies should i pursue this further ?

Thank for any input in advance

Hi and welcome to CAG

I am in no way an employment expert but my common sense says they shouldn't be doing this.

I would write a letter stating that you want this money and if they refuse, you may take other action to recover this along with any costs.

If they still refuse then a Letter Before Action is required. Don't do this if you are not prepared to follow through. If they still dispute, sue them.

They can only deduct money for damage if it is an implied term in your contract of employment as an accepted deduction.

This is unlawful deduction of wages, section 13 Employment Rights Act 1996

A tribunal claim is three months from cause of Action, that is when you became aware of the unlawful deduction

Why are you getting your final wage slip three months after you have already left??

You need sight of your contract in the first instance - wages can only be deducted with your signed agreement. No agreement then it is indeed actionable through the small claims court as a breach of contract. You would need to write in the first instance to request that the outstanding wages are paid or that you will be forced to make a claim in the County Court.

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I am in no way an employment expert but my common sense says they shouldn't be doing this.

 

I would write a letter stating that you want this money and if they refuse, you may take other action to recover this along with any costs.

If they still refuse then a Letter Before Action is required. Don't do this if you are not prepared to follow through. If they still dispute, sue them.

I already email him asking for the money back and stating that i think it is unlawful for them to deduct that money, he made his position clear by threatening me! saying along the lines of don't test my good will.

They can only deduct money for damage if it is an implied term in your contract of employment as an accepted deduction.

 

This is unlawful deduction of wages, section 13 Employment Rights Act 1996

 

A tribunal claim is three months from cause of Action, that is when you became aware of the unlawful deduction

 

Why are you getting your final wage slip three months after you have already left??

Here is a section on deductions taken from employment contract

The Company may deduct from your pay any sums that you may owe the Company, including, without limitation, any over payment or loans made to you by the Company. The Company reserves the right to withhold any final payments to an employee upon termination of employment until all Company equipment has been returned following the termination of their employment. Any Accident in a Company Vehicle where you are at fault will result in half the insurance excess being repaid over 4 to 6 months.

Reason was i left the company and i started my new job money came in to my account but no wage slip was posted out to me. I was used to low money that they normally paid so did not think much off it. However when i got the payslip 3 months late i remembered that i was on call and had a very busy week hence more overtime and more money paid. To answer your question i do not know why they sent it late , all i had is we just found this in your pigeon hole with complements. hth

You need sight of your contract in the first instance - wages can only be deducted with your signed agreement. No agreement then it is indeed actionable through the small claims court as a breach of contract. You would need to write in the first instance to request that the outstanding wages are paid or that you will be forced to make a claim in the County Court.

I have wrote to them clearly stating that i do not agree with the deduction and i think it is unlawful, he turned around saying that its a fact that i damaged and that apparently i was notified at the time?? Which i was not

 

I have wrote to them clearly stating that i do not agree with the deduction and i think it is unlawful, he turned around saying that its a fact that i damaged and that apparently i was notified at the time?? Which i was not

It matters not what you were told - or indeed whether there was any damage - what counts is whether the employer has your SIGNED agreement that you agree to the employer withholding wages in the event of damage to a vehicle

It matters not what you were told - or indeed whether there was any damage - what counts is whether the employer has your SIGNED agreement that you agree to the employer withholding wages in the event of damage to a vehicle

I did not sign anything nor was i infromed about it.

I just went ahead and looked at this website .nidirect. gov . uk/articles/ pay-deductions and here is interesting bit of information

Rules for making deductions from your pay

Your employer is not allowed to make a deduction from your pay or wages unless:

it is required or allowed by law, for example National Insurance, income tax or student loan repayments

you agree in writing to a deduction

your contract of employment says they can

it is a result of any statutory disciplinary proceedings

there is a statutory payment due to a public authority

you have not worked due to taking part in a strike or industrial action

it is to recover an earlier overpayment of wages or expenses

it is a result of a court order

Do you think that the section on deductions that i posted taken from my contract covers van damage as well?

many thanks

Hi most,

Just so you are aware, the link you looked at relates to Northern Ireland, though in truth I wouldn't have thought there were any different scenarios where a deduction would be OK from the rest of the UK.

Has your former employer explained how they came to their figure of £350? Have they even explained how the vehicle was damaged?

I'm not that good on employment legislation, but it is certainly bad form to not inform you of the deduction without your prior agreement.

It is now clear to me that an employer on genuine grounds can deduct money from wages as long as contract of employment states that they can do so. Mine does not cover van specifically however it does cover company property which a van may be described as. However we are still left with 2 details where they messed up.

1) they did not inform of the deduction

2) They have no paperwork to back there claim of supposed van damage as prior to receiving and handing van back there was no condition report made hence no real evidence of damage that i supposedly did.

Common sense is telling me to take them to small claims court.

Some body mentioned that Employment tribunal case can be made 3 month after the date of wrong doing. Is this the case for sure?

1)An employer shall not make a deduction from wages of a worker employed by him unless—

(a)the deduction is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a statutory provision or a relevant provision of the worker’s contract, or

(b)the worker has previously signified in writing his agreement or consent to the making of the deduction.

Hi most,

 

Just so you are aware, the link you looked at relates to Northern Ireland, though in truth I wouldn't have thought there were any different scenarios where a deduction would be OK from the rest of the UK.

 

Has your former employer explained how they came to their figure of £350? Have they even explained how the vehicle was damaged?

 

I'm not that good on employment legislation, but it is certainly bad form to not inform you of the deduction without your prior agreement.

My best guess would be insurance excess only they failed on this count 2 has i am still in contact with engineers and van was not handed to insurance company obviously as there was nothing to repair.

My best guess would be insurance excess only they failed on this count 2 has i am still in contact with engineers and van was not handed to insurance company obviously as there was nothing to repair.

Sounds fishy if they've left you to guess as to why the figure it what it is and have not been prepared to explain the costs.

One thing I've picked up from the wording of your contract in post #5 - "Any Accident in a Company Vehicle where you are at fault will result in half the insurance excess being repaid over 4 to 6 months." So if it is insurance excess related, then I presume you have not been given the opportunity to repay this over the specified 4-6 months?

This could be another avenue to explore as even if your former employer points to a signed contract of employment as your consent to having your wages deducted, then you may be able to claim breach of contract as well (I stress 'may be', that will really depend on how they came to the figure they deducted).

The employer can claim any contractual amounts outstanding from the employees final wage in one hit

You can only bring a claim to an Employment Tribunal three months less one day from cause of action. That date will be when they deducted the money from your wages

My reading of the policy on accidents is that it refers to accidents that have been sent to the insurers. this means that to get money from you they must have made a claim.

You dont want to go to an ET, this is easily dealt with via the small claims procedure. As your boss inspected the vehicle with you he accepted that there was nothing wrong with it that could lead to an insurance claim so the company action since is an unlawful deduction of wages. If you do decide to sue for the money (I would- the N1 landing on their doorstep will amke them think very ahrd about whetehr they want to continue this charade) then you can ask for a copy of the insurance claim. They wont get naywhere without one and if it is dated more than a day after your leaving they will be stuck unless they can prove no-one else had driven it after you left up until the insurers were informd and the vehicle assessed for damage. In short, they are just being dishonest and hope you just go away

My reading of the policy on accidents is that it refers to accidents that have been sent to the insurers. this means that to get money from you they must have made a claim.

You dont want to go to an ET, this is easily dealt with via the small claims procedure. As your boss inspected the vehicle with you he accepted that there was nothing wrong with it that could lead to an insurance claim so the company action since is an unlawful deduction of wages. If you do decide to sue for the money (I would- the N1 landing on their doorstep will amke them think very ahrd about whetehr they want to continue this charade) then you can ask for a copy of the insurance claim. They wont get naywhere without one and if it is dated more than a day after your leaving they will be stuck unless they can prove no-one else had driven it after you left up until the insurers were informd and the vehicle assessed for damage. In short, they are just being dishonest and hope you just go away

Hi many thanks for your response. Sorry for dumb question, but what is N1? Do you think it is worth emailing them and asking for brake down on what the £350 was spent on?

I know for a fact that they have not made a claim because i seen the lad that drives the van now and its been passed on from 1 engineer to him.

N1 is the name of the County Court Form you will use to instigate your claim