Arrow/Restons Claim form - old HSBC credit card 'debt'Claim Discontinued

comebackjimmy · August 18, 2016

Hello

My ex wife has received a County Court Claim from Arrow Global. They seek over £14,000 for an HSBC Credit Card Debt that was defaulted in 2012 and purchased by Arrow Global in 2014.

The pack has no supporting documents such as a copy of the original contract, statements etc. Their Stated Particulars of Claim (suitably Redacted) are as follows:

The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and HSBC dated on or about DATE IN THE NINETIES and assigned to the claimant on DATE IN 2014

The account was defaulted in 2012 and is not Statutory barred and was last acknowledged in 2012 so the stat bar does not come into effect until 2018.

The account was opened in the mid nineties so I think I am correct to say it comes under the older Consumer Credit Act so would expect a part of the defence to be that they must produce a copy of the contract and we can examine to see if it is valid.

I am about to acknowledge service and get the additional 14 days so I will need to put a defence in on or around 4th September.

I would be most grateful for any advice as to how to proceed with this defence. I imagine we are at the first instance looking for production of documents and supporting evidence. How do I ask or that as part of the defence.

Many thanks.

**dx100uk** · August 18, 2016

Moved to legals and retitled

Please fill this out

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**

comebackjimmy · August 18, 2016

Name of the Claimant ? - Arrow Global

Date of issue – 11th August 2016

defence due by 4pm 12th sept

What is the claim for

– Non payment of a Credit Card debt. Particulars of Claim are stated as follows:

1.The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and HSBC dated on or about DATE IN THE NINETIES and assigned to the claimant on DATE IN 2014

Particulars a/c no – A NUMBER

DATE ITEM VALUE

a date in 2016 Default Balance A number above £14,000

Post reld Cr Nil

TOTAL A number above £14,000

What is the value of the claim? - A number above £14,000

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? - Credit card

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? - before 2007 (mid 1990's)

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - Arrow global

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

- yes from HSBC in letter dated 25th June 2014 saying it had occurred on a date in March.

No corresponding letter was received from Arrow Global.

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? - yes 14th July 2012

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? - No.

Why did you cease payments? - The repayments became unaffordable.

What was the date of your last payment? - 27th January 2012

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? - No

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? - No

Arrow Global sent one letter entitled “Annual statement in June 2016 in which it referenced the period 9th December 2013 to 30th April 2016. It did not contain the words “Notice of default Sums” anywhere. This is the only statement ever received.

A request for a repayment loan from the bank was answered with a loan with an interest rate 1% less than the card rate!

**dx100uk** · August 18, 2016

defence not due till 12th not 4th

ack {AOS] the claim

defend all

leave jurisdiction untick

get a CPR 31:14 running to rectums

and a

CCA request running to the claimant [arrows]

don't sign anything

leave the uncrossed £1PO BLANK

comebackjimmy · August 18, 2016

Thankyou for prompt reply. Have drafted both letters in accordance with site guidance and will post by recorded delivery tomorrow.

**dx100uk** · August 20, 2016

good

have you done AOS too?

dx

comebackjimmy · August 26, 2016

Hello

Just to confirm that the two documents were sent by signed for service on Monday 22nd August.

The Service has been acknowledged.

**dx100uk** · August 26, 2016

OK time to get reading like threads with the same players

comebackjimmy · September 2, 2016

Hello all,

Thank you for your interest DX.

so far no response but

I have done as you suggested and followed some threads elsewhere and as best as I can see I can expect Arrow to say they are not the creditor and return the £1 thereafter to go back to HSBC

and try and source required documents,

and that Restons will claim we received the required documents at the time they were originally produced or that they are not relevant to the claim.

Will post back here when we see resposnes or when it is getting close to time to present a defence.

theoldrouge · September 2, 2016

Arrow are the creditor

It's up to them to provide

comebackjimmy · September 7, 2016

Update:

The letter to Restons requesting more information was received by them on 24th August 2016.

Yesterday (6th September 2016) we received a letter back dated 2nd September 2016. I repeat word for word the text of the letter:

Please find enclosed a draft letter which purports to come from you but which is unsigned.

You will appreciate that we must ensure we are corresponding with the correct person and that anyone requesting information is entitled to receive it.

Please ensure that all documentation is signed failing which we will not acknowledge receipt nor provide any response.

Yours faithfully

The original letter sent (unsigned as per CAG advise) was also returned.

The CCA request to Arrow/Global was signed for on 23rd August 2016. As of yesterday's post there has been no response.

theoldrouge · September 7, 2016

You need to sign the cpr31.14

comebackjimmy · September 7, 2016

In post 4 Dx says don't sign anything.

**dx100uk** · September 7, 2016

delaying tactics by rectums

ignore

just don't miss you defence filing date regardless

comebackjimmy · September 7, 2016

Okay thanks DX.

I will now refer to other posts and place my draft defence here for comment/approval.

comebackjimmy · September 7, 2016

1.The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and HSBC dated on or about DATE IN THE NINETIES and assigned to the claimant on DATE IN 2014

Particulars a/c no – A NUMBER

DATE ITEM VALUE

a date in 2016 Default Balance A number above £14,000

Post reld Cr Nil

TOTAL A number above £14,000

here is my proposed wording for my defence, all comments suggestions welcome;

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. Following the receipt of this claim the Defendant wrote to the Claimants Solicitors asking for further information and in particular a true copy of the Contract between the two parties, a notice of Assignment and a statement of account, all referenced or alluded to in the Claimant's claim.

3. The above letter was signed for by the Claimant's solicitors on 24th August 2016 and the Defendant has Proof of Delivery from the Post Office. To date no information has been provided.

4. The defendant also wrote to the Defendant with a request for a copy of the contract under Section section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This letter was signed for by the Claimant on 23rd August 2016. To date no response has been received.

5. Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests has frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and against pre action protocols and should be considered when the question of costs arise.

6. In the absence of any response from either the Claimant or his solicitors the claim is denied. Until such time the claimant can comply with my section 78 request and CPR 31.14 the claimant is prevented from enforcing any agreements or seeking any relief. It is denied the claimant has complied with any pre action protocol and is yet to respond to my requests for clarification.

It is denied the Defendant owes any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant

is put to strict proof to:

(a) Show how the defendant has entered into the agreements

(b)Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for.

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim by way of a Notice of Assignment and evidence of its service.

7. As per

Civil Procedure

wDXyg1BAAAALklEQVR4nGNgwgAMWIUYgADMhNFMDDAZmCYGqDIIgOqCKYToYMCuCotZ2GzEAABh2AD9h3CnRwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==

rule 16.5(4) I expect that the claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited September 7, 2016 by comebackjimmy
formatting codes were visible

**dx100uk** · September 7, 2016

added POC

you need to admit or deny their para 1.

dx

**dx100uk** · September 7, 2016

post 10

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?458503-Cabot-Restons-claimform-cap1-card-debt

comebackjimmy · September 7, 2016

Okay, V2:

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. The claim is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. The Claimant/Solicitor has been unable to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

3. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment the claimant refers to within its particulars and deny the notice was served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

4. On receipt of this claim the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim from Restons Solicitors by way of a CPR 31.14. This request was signed for by the Solicitors on 24th August 2016. To date I have yet to receive a compliant response.

5. The Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim from Arrow/Global by way of a Section 77/78 request. This request was signed for by the Claimant on 23rd August 2016. To date I have yet to receive a response complying with the request.

6. Therefore with the courts permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) Show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) Show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

7. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5, it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.to the relief claimed or any relief.

mercyblue · September 7, 2016

Umm your para 2 seems a little odd to me. Are you saying there was never any agreement? Its not very clear. And its just s78 for a credit card you can drop the s77 bit.

theoldrouge · September 8, 2016

I would suggest that if it dates from the

mid 1990s that the agreement would

in any case be between yourself

and Midland Bank not HSBC

comebackjimmy · September 8, 2016

Thank you rouge. That is a useful point and may well come up later in the case.

mercyblue · September 8, 2016

I would suggest that if it dates from the
mid 1990s that the agreement would

in any case be between yourself

and Midland Bank not HSBC

Seems HSBC took over the Midland in 1992 but the name didn't go until 1999. So by the mid-90's Midland would merely be a brand under the HSBC umbrella.

It's on hsbc's own website

http://www.about.hsbc.co.uk/hsbc-in-the-uk/history-timeline

comebackjimmy · September 8, 2016

okay Version 3:

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. The claim is denied as the Claimant/Solicitor has been unable to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

3. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment the claimant refers to within its particulars and deny the notice was served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

4. On receipt of this claim the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim from Restons Solicitors by way of a CPR 31.14. This request was signed for by the Solicitors on 24th August 2016. To date I have yet to receive a compliant response.

5. The Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim from Arrow/Global by way of a Section 78 request. This request was signed for by the Claimant on 23rd August 2016. To date I have yet to receive a response complying with the request.

6. Therefore with the courts permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) Show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) Show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5, it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

**dx100uk** · September 8, 2016

v2 is quite acceptable and already edited/approved on that other thread by andyorch

no need to modify

dx

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Arrow/Restons Claim form - old HSBC credit card 'debt'Claim Discontinued