After that business with ACS law i am shocked that people will still be gullible to believe this propaganda.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/snooping-bbc-spy-internet-users-8572134

I am not sure how scanning peoples wifi would prove anything anyway. Unless they can match a PC or mobile device to someone who should be paying a licence?

I do not see how they can identify the difference between someone watching iPlayer and 4OD or Youtube.

Stigman

You only have to use a VPN or Tor anyway if this garbage is even remotely true

A hard wired network would render any WiFi sniffing tools completely useless. That said, I do not believe that TVL/Capita have been given the authority to go snooping on private networks to identify "streamed live broadcasts" or any iPlayer content. I doubt very much that they have the equipment, resources, and suitably trained staff to engage in such activities anyway.

If these packets, even if they are encrypted as they should be with WPA2 or whatever, match the size and pattern of iPlayer video packets, then presumably you'll start getting angry letters demanding £145.50, doorsteppings and potentially prosecution and fines.

Love to know who actually managed to blag the BBC with that load of crap.

To be able to go to Court, they must have to then know who the end user is.

So even if they can identify the encrypted packets between the wi-fi box and the computer/tablet/phone etc. They cannot identify to who the packets of information is going to.

This has the hallmarks of another classic internet [problem] as we have previously seen with ACS and Golden Eye, but this time the BBC/Capita will be sending the bill payer of the network connection a Court summons.

Stigman

When I first saw this article I had to check my calendar! Had I somehow overslept and woken up on April 1!

The biggest load of Bull Faeces ever produced!

Are Capita/BBC TV Licensing going to start to do what Golden Eye already tried and failed, even if they could somehow match wifi packets to iPlayer video packets how would that prove someone was watching iPlayer?

It would be interesting to see the first persecution brought on this evidence, and of course to bring about a successful prosecution the complete details of any technique would have to be provided to the defence, which would mean that the technique would be rendered immediately useless!

So the ONLY evidence they are going to rely on is that the packet sizes are the same size as iplayer packets?

Who the hell gave them advice on this? it will NEVER stand up in court at all. Even a first year uni student could tear it apart

So the ONLY evidence they are going to rely on is that the packet sizes are the same size as iplayer packets?

 

Who the hell gave them advice on this? it will NEVER stand up in court at all. Even a first year uni student could tear it apart

The advice may have been "let's put out a warning that sounds all technical" (a bit like the old "TV detector vans", with aerials that rotated and everything!), "so that it scares Joe Q. Public. We know it won't work / stand up in court, but we don't need it to work, only scare people!"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/06/bbc_detector_van_wi_fi_iplayer/

Link saying page does not exist

Link saying page does not exist

I got the same.

I got the same when I went back to my browser history.

Searching on The Register gave the page just fine.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/06/bbc_detector_van_wi_fi_iplayer/

(Using "copy link" on Safari......)

Interesting cannot access on Firefox or Internet explorer, i wonder if BT has blocked the site

Yet when i go manually into the register and use their own search bar, and type in BBC, I get the story

A hard wired network would render any WiFi sniffing tools completely useless. That said, I do not believe that TVL/Capita have been given the authority to go snooping on private networks to identify "streamed live broadcasts" or any iPlayer content. I doubt very much that they have the equipment, resources, and suitably trained staff to engage in such activities anyway.

Or more importantly to be able to deal with the resulting legal issues, it is complete hokum in much the same way as Tv detector vans.

Absolute rubbish, but I wonder the source of this story ?, leaked by the BBC to make people worry ?

So let's look at it, a van drives down the road and detects a signal. Firstly how does it relate a wifi signal to a name and address ?, it can't !, secondly nearly all wifi is encrypted, now whilst it maybe possible to hack this, this would be s very drastic step probably requiring some sort of court order due to security concerns, for example many people use online banking, etc, also lets go back to the first point, even if the wifi is hacked, how is it linked to an individual or address.

Even if access is made to the wifi it would take some very serious technical skills to identify what websites are being accessed, like alleged tv detectors vans the cost would outweigh the benefits of catching an individual, also would the BBC be willing to disclose this information in court ?

In reality nothing will change it will still need Capita goons knocking at your door but they will ask difference questions, the ability to actual catch someone will be much harder, I dont believe there have been any convictions for watching live iPlayer programs.

The excellent Register article debunks most of this story

I found it here http://m.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/06/bbc_detector_van_wi_fi_iplayer/

"Updated to add

As our analysis suggested, the Telegraph's article about the BBC sniffing Wi-Fi is complete bollocks"

BBC admit here it's complete crap https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcpress/status/762218984938889216/photo/1

Absolute rubbish, but I wonder the source of this story ?, leaked by the BBC to make people worry ?

It springs from the annual report from the National Audit Office: https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/British-Broadcasting-Corporation-Television-Licence-fee-Trust-Statement-for-the-Year-Ending-31-March-2016.pdf

The pertinent paragraphs are 1.31 on page 37 and 1.37 the following page. In both paragraphs, it is claimed that the BBC has the technology to detect whether a TV or non-TV device is being used to view live TV.

In paragraph 1.19 (page 34), it states that The BBC views the number of people watching TV on a non-TV device as too small to warrant a specific strategy to tackle evasion using the new technology.

I suspect extra spin has been added by the BBC press department and the "reporters" have embellished the story further. Must be a quiet day in the newsrooms.

Love to know who actually managed to blag the BBC with that load of crap.

2nd this!!

And @ what extortionate cost £xxxxxxx that we will pay for.....

Absolutely ludicrous indeed!!

As the register suggests, whilst it may technically be possible to snoop onto wifi, if would a) be amazingly time consuming and expensive b) probably be illegal c) infringe all sort of privacy concerns d) wouldn't work for hard wired systems e) unlikely to satisfy a court and f) the BBC said they won't.

What is most interesting is that the BBC claim that they can detect non tv devices. Is this a lie ?, whilst it may technically be possible the BBC won't ever use it due to legal implications (they won't tell us how they do it) or due to technical/cost implications.

The only real posdible way would be some sort of real time isp log lcross referenced with details from Isp providers and a database of every uk address. As a court order is needed to obtain this info from ISPs this simply wouldn't work and the sheer complexity and cost would bankrupt the BBC

As the register suggests, whilst it may technically be possible to snoop onto wifi, if would a) be amazingly time consuming and expensive b) probably be illegal c) infringe all sort of privacy concerns d) wouldn't work for hard wired systems e) unlikely to satisfy a court and f) the BBC said they won't.

 

What is most interesting is that the BBC claim that they can detect non tv devices. Is this a lie ?, whilst it may technically be possible the BBC won't ever use it due to legal implications (they won't tell us how they do it) or due to technical/cost implications.

 

The only real posdible way would be some sort of real time isp log lcross referenced with details from Isp providers and a database of every uk address. As a court order is needed to obtain this info from ISPs this simply wouldn't work and the sheer complexity and cost would bankrupt the BBC

With the iplayer APP, you don't even have to register it. Therefore there is no log on. There is no warning about needing a licence to view live channels.

Given that you can use any free open wifi spot, i don't see how they can monitor who is accessing BBC programmes and to match it against the licence database.

Government have put off making a decision to change the licence system for 10 years because they think it is too difficult. Or they think in 10 years things will have changed with the BBC able to generate revenues without needing licence money.

I think the government could have implemented a change, where say £5 or £10 was added to the purchase cost of every mobile phone, TV, laptop etc that could access TV content. This revenue would have gone a long way towards making up for lost licence money. They could have kept a reduced licence for say 3 years and told the BBC that they needed to start selling advertising for peak viewing hours. The BBC will have to reduce in size anyway, as the way people access what they view continues to change.

Although they could make logging on a requirement quite easily, but requiring a licence number would be more problematic, and would lead to people letting others use their number, and I suspect is something that would never be implemented as it would get too complicated.

Since this requirement went live on 1 September, I have accessed iPlayer to find out how they are checking if people have a TV license!

What a surprise there is now a question when you connect to iPlayer that asks if you have a TV license, and has a simple yes/no answer. If you enter Yes then you get connected and can watch, if you answer No presumably it disconnects you. So the question to ask now is, if you don't have a TV license and you answer the question Yes what are they going to do?

PS it only seems to ask the question the first time you connect!

What a surprise there is now a question when you connect to iPlayer that asks if you have a TV license, and has a simple yes/no answer. [...] if you answer No presumably it disconnects you.

 

PS it only seems to ask the question the first time you connect!

Should you answer No, you get redirected to the TV Licensing site and prompted to purchase a licence.

If you clear out all your cookies, you will get asked the question again.

Never thought about the cookies as mine get cleared out every week automatically, so I expect to see the question again shortly, I think I will keep answering yes every time it pops up and asks me

Its still not going to get people to buy a TV license to use iPlayer.