Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default Indigo Park Solutions UK Ltd. Railway station PCN

    Hi.
    Parked at a Southern railway rail station today and used the phone number to pay the daily charge

    . I had used it before but with a different car and the system recognised my phone number did a fast trackicon to payment confirmation

    . I didn't spot that the registration number quoted by their system was not that of the car I was using today (lot of background noise in the car park).

    There was a penalty notice issued by Indigo when I returned.

    What are the chances of success if I appeal?
    I can prove that I own both cars and that the one for whom they issued the ticket was not there today (it's in a garage for repair).
    Any tips on how to phrase the appeal in such a case?
    Thanks


  2. #2

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Was it a railway station covered under specific bylaws? There are a few stations that arent.

    Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..


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  3. #3

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    byelaw 14 so they dont have a claim.

    However, wait for them to send out a NTK and see if they get that wrong as well as it will save a lot of letter tennis.

    they have to send it out between 29-56 days after the event and the wording has to use the correct terminology to create a keeper liability.

    Also, as you paid the prescribed fee they or the railway havent been caused a loss so it will be a "de minimis" case

    undoubtedly the condition they claim your breached will not be a core term as advertised on the main sign at the entrance but on some piddly sign next to the ticket machine and that is a take it or leave it offer rather than proper consideration and acceptance.

    They will argue otherwise but are very unlikely to want to try it on as they can only resort to the Railways byelaws for enforcement and they dont get the money then and this is all about the money..

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Quote Originally Posted by ericsbrother View Post
    byelaw 14 so they dont have a claim.
    Hi ericsbrother, thanks for the prompt reply. A few things:

    • I've been trying to find something definitive about byelaw 14. Can you point me in the right direction and say why you don't think they have a case?
    • Just to be clear - it was my mistake about the registration number, not theirs. The person who issued the ticket would have reasonably assumed that no-one had paid for parking as I had paid by the automated system over the phone using the wrong car registration
    • Also, i forgot to mention that I received a confirmation text which when I looked at it later in the day I realised the registration was wrong. So I texted back to give the correct registration but by that time the ticket had been issued



  5. #5
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Quote Originally Posted by renegadeimp View Post
    Was it a railway station covered under specific bylaws? There are a few stations that arent.
    How do I find that out please?


  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DG_123 View Post

    I can prove that I own both cars and that the one for whom they issued the ticket was not there today (it's in a garage for repair).
    Excellent advice from ericsbrother as usual. Just to add, only identify yourself as the registered keeper of both vehicles, not the driver, as you may want to use the "no keeper liability" route if their NtK is non-compliant.


  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DG_123 View Post
    Hi ericsbrother, thanks for the prompt reply. A few things:
    've been trying to find something definitive about byelaw 14.
    Can you point me in the right direction and say why you don't think they have a case?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ay-byelaws.PDF

    14(3)

    "(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place."

    Your reply "The driver paid the appropriate charge", and even if they say it wasn't done in accordance with instructions, it would need a Byelaw prosecution (unless the site wasn't covered by the Byelaws), not paying anything to a private parking company......


  8. #8

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Can we just confirm if the ticket uses the word penalty please
    Or is this a word you have used
    And the ticket does not say penalty

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    the ticket is headed "Penalty Notice" and then goes on to refer to Rail Byelaw 14


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Quote Originally Posted by BazzaS View Post
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.PDFicon

    14(3)

    "(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place."

    Your reply "The driver paid the appropriate charge", and even if they say it wasn't done in accordance with instructions, it would need a Byelaw prosecution (unless the site wasn't covered by the Byelaws), not paying anything to a private parking company......
    Thanks for that. I'm afraid my earlier post hadn't been clear - I'd seen what Byelaw 14 says but it's just that from reading a number of threads on here I'd gained the impression that Byelaw 14 wasn't anything to be worried about. I just wanted to understand the rationale for that.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    byelaw 14 allows the railway company to prosecute you for trespassing on the railway, it doesnt allow a parking co to demand money.

    So, you werent trespassing as you paid the prescribed fee and that means the railway ahve no interest in the matter.

    the parking co cannot use byelaw 14 as their claim is a civil matter of contract and their problem is that they cannot use the POFA to create a keeper liability as it is not "relevant land".

    they can bitch to the railway in the hope that the matter is take to a magistrate but they will lose and even if they won, the fine would go to the government and not to the railway co or the parking co.

    This means they have no incentive to prosecute anyone other than the mose resolute of repeat offenders and that doesnt often go well for them as they found out trying to inforce a massive charge for the use of a taxi rank somewhere and the court decided that they were wrong for a couple of reasons.

    All stations are covered by the Railways Act, it is their car parks and station approaches that can cause the problems.

    Southern tried to introduce parking chargesicon for the road outside my local railway station at my previous abode.

    Their problem was that the road was a public highway and had never ever been railway land but that didnt stop Southern from claiming otherwise
    . The council had to get involved but fortunately it was then resolved quickly so no-one got clobbered.

    My advice is to wait for the NTK through the post, as already said and then see what that says

    . The act of sending one out means that they arent using byelaw 14 but are just hoping that the smoke and mirrors are enough to bamboozle you.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Thanks ericsbrother. That's really helpful.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    I have now received a "Notice to Owner" from the PCN adminicon centre acting on behalf of Indigo.
    I attach a scan of the text of the notice
    I assume I will need to reply to this and would appreciate guidance.
    Thanks

    Attached Files Attached Files

  14. #14

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    that's a very misleading letter and I think it needs to be complained about

    but then again it says OUR CLIENT MAY.
    no WILL

    so there we go
    you've blanked out who the client is

    you don't need to respond
    its a threat-o-gram

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Thanks for the reply. The client was Indigo Park Solutions UK Ltd.

    I had thought that it was important to reply to NTK letters.


  16. #16

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Go re read post 11

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Hi. Thanks again for getting back to me.
    I had read post 11 before my last posting, but it said...
    Quote Originally Posted by ericsbrother View Post

    My advice is to wait for the NTK through the post, as already said and then see what that says

    . The act of sending one out means that they arent using byelaw 14 but are just hoping that the smoke and mirrors are enough to bamboozle you.
    So, I was assuming the NTK was important and needed to be responded to.


  18. #18

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    EB concluded right
    trying to bamboozle you.


    dx

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  19. #19

    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    last week a railway co took a person to court on behalf of their pet parking cowboys and lost.


    it was decided that the signage is inadequate to enforce byelaw 14 if the company try and create a contract with the parking co instead so lose lose for Meteor and Southern..


    This makes any threatogram even sillier than it sounds as they cannot resort to criminal law fi you dont play their games


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Penalty notice at rail station after I gave wrong registration number

    Thanks.
    Will sit tight.


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