Hi All,

I have just signed up here after reading numerous threads i am hoping for some(any) advice on my situation. Which i think i should warn that it may be upsetting for some readers with possible triggers, i do apologize but i want to put as much information here as i can.. I am sorry if i ramble here there's a lot to get down, it really will be a short novel

I am being investigated for Housing Benefit and Council tax benefit(along with single person discount) fraud from what i assume is June 2011 til present day. I have my IUC for the 7th of April at my local town hall. The investigation is for living with my partner.

I was first made aware of this approx one month ago i received a letter from the counter fraud team stating they had information that i was living with a partner which effectively stops my entitlement to Single person discount and that i need to contact them with all the information on my partner and dates that he moved in.

I contacted them by email to state that yes i live with my partner and had done since roughly August 2014. I gave his information that they requested and also apologized and acknowledged that i had been receiving Single person discount during this time(not purposely to de fraud) but still at my own fault. I asked what happens now,

They replied thanking for the quick response, she then stated in the email 'We have information to state that he has been living with you since June 2011 and we will need all other addresses that he had been living at up until when you stated he moved in with you in 2014'.

I replied saying this was not correct and we had been in a relationship since 2011 but he did not live with me, i then gave the address of his mums house(That's where his post always went he never changed it) and also his dad's house where he effectively lived during this time.

Since then they have contacted his mum and dad to inquire, his dad has replied to them stating he stayed there a few times a week(Dad was receiving some sort of benefit i suppose), and in fairness my partner did stay with me every now and then and was here a lot of the time. His mum confirmed his dad's address.

I have a few days ago received the letter for the IUC and that is where i am now at.

The background information -

The property where i live was originally my dad on the tenancy agreement, he moved out in 2011 and i took over the tenancy(as i have lived here since 13 years old).

In October 2010 i met a guy(my partner) in a 6 month temporary job we were both in(working for the council) at the time. We didn't start a relationship until March 2011. Both of our contracts had ended there and we were out of work, i managed to get a job very quickly and a high paid one(over the moon).

I had been there no more than a week when my whole world changed forever, i was raped on April 4th 2011. I did not tell a soul, not my partner, police, family nobody. However it became strikingly obvious something was very wrong and i broke down to my partner(Not long been together) but he was my life line.

Due to the amount of distress i was in and inability to talk to anybody i lost my job. I then wrote a letter to my dad as i couldn't bare to tell him anything, my partner took it to him and had to sit and watch him read it, basically me saying what had happened and how i am falling apart, lost my job and couldn't afford the flat.

My dad gave me some money to pay the immediate bills, and told me to claim housing benefit ect as soon as possible and get to the doctors. I must add that from early 2010 i was suffering with severe sciatica and lower back problems receiving physiotherapy ect. However i still managed to work.

During this period in 2011 my back problems worsened and i was sent for physiotherapy again, and therefore claimed ESA on the assessment rate(I think).

I went to my doctors, possibly a few months after it happened, and told them how i was feeling ect and they pointed me in the direction of a Rape crisis organisation.

2011 and most of 2012 were absolutely horrendous for me mentally, emotionally, physically and financially. When i was asked to go for an assessment for ESA, i never went, cancelled my claim and said i would be claiming job seekers. Mostly because i was told i would never 'pass it' for back problems and they would make me feel silly. Some what because i didn't want to do the journey, had become quite agoraphobic.

It took me a few months to put in the claim for JSA, i was severely depressed and getting myself to talk to anybody took a great deal of effort and upset. I ended up getting far too many pay day loans(Faked employment) and was living purely by scraping money together from selling anything i could to pay back the loans and keep getting more.

I don't remember many details from back then but i clearly remember having no money and mostly living off 16p super noodles.

I never told my family about how bad my situation was, i have never been one to tell of my problems and i hate putting that stress on to them, so i always managed to avoid contact or put up a false pretense.

I believe i stopped claiming HB and CB in early 2013 when i eventually started employment. However i was still receiving Council tax single person credit up until recently. So i have been paying full rent since 2013.

Now my partner, during all of 2011 and most of 2012 he never had employment, i think he had two sales jobs that lasted no more than 5 weeks each. He was either claiming JSA or nothing at all. He was with me more often than not as he was my only confident, he was my life line and did everything for me. However he couldn't contribute financially as he had nothing to contribute. He would sell his DVD's and any bits to get me money for food sometimes. When i met him he was living at his dads house, i would stay there the odd time and he would stay here, sometimes we'd stay apart.

His post has always gone to his mums address he never changed this.

Until around July 2012 when he applied for a job at a company my dad worked for that was close to where i lived, he put down my address as thought this would benefit his chances. He stayed at this job until late 2013 so just over a year. During this time we still did not class him as living with me, i didn't think his job was secure although he would help me out with money every now and then he never had any bills ect in his name.

Fast forward to March 2014 he got a permanent job as a home carer for a company close by, this is when we decided for him to move in and for us to inform the council. I did this by email in May 2014 and asked what the steps be, they told me they would need his I.D ect handing in to them and that he wouldn't go on the tenancy for 12 months. They also said as i had some arrears they needed clearing first(which was fine). We handed his information in.

Since this time my life has been up and down, never really addressing my mental health problems, severe anxiety and on/off depression, my partner has literally been my everything and how strong he has been to stick by me through everything really makes me so upset that we are now in this situation. My life started to get better a steady job i enjoyed as well as my partner, managing to save some money and had our first holiday in June 2015 which was so overdue and absolutely amazing.

I got back from the holiday and was given a weeks notice of redundancy, everything fell apart again, my anxiety came back with a vengeance, since then i have had one job lasting four weeks, and my current one which i have been in since September.

I have been signed off sick for nearly 7 weeks now due to my anxiety, my employer has been so supportive and i can't thank them enough.

My GP put me on a CBT course and i was feeling positive that i am taking the steps to overcome this and get my life back on track, then i received this fraud letter.

I have not been functioning at all, my hopes of getting back into work have shot down due to the amount of stress, i've been physically ill for weeks, vertigo, headaches, severe depression, neck pain and stomach problems. I am absolutely terrified of being back in that place i was 5 years ago, feeling so hopeless and helpless. I don't know if i have the strength to go through this whole process.

We are struggling financially as my partner had to leave his job in January(constructive dismissal) and has only just got new employment this week, during this time i have been receiving SSP, and paying the rent/bills has been impossible. I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel, my partner has 2 children he has to provide for and is not on a big income at all, i can't see me getting back into work anytime soon as all i can think about is this investigation.

I would like any advice at all, even if it is bad i just want to know what to expect, i can't afford any legal help and doubt i would be entitled to free help as i am technically employed.

So basically i have admitted i should not have been receiving Single person discount since 2014 up until now. I told them that i did inform the council he was moving in(but they are not linked) i didn't know but that is my fault.

However they're investigating since June 2011 and i have worked out it could be nearing £15,000 maybe more. My worry is i cannot prove that i didn't believe i was living with him, we were in a serious relationship and he spent a great deal of time here so technically that will be enough for them to say i wasn't entitled?

If they ask me specific questions i will struggle to answer as honestly the whole thing is very blurry to me, i don't know how i survived, i just know that i was not focused on anything and just getting through day by day.

Is anything that i went through relevant at all to the case and if so should i provide this information or is that just for courts, and in terms of me not being able to remember specific details as i suffered and still suffered from mental health issues.

I have found emails and saved them that i sent to the council in 2014 about my partner moving in, and in the email i even stated that i was not in receipt of any benefit so nothing needed to change(i genuinely forgot about this Single person discount).

I have doctors records and emails to and from the rape crisis team in 2011 detailing dates ect of events. The fact that for the time they are investigating my partner was pretty much out of work that whole time would i have been entitled to the HB anyway? All these things i am not sure if they are considered or not.

Any advice at all or if i have not been clear please ask questions, i am in an absolute state and although i know that it's impacting my health so much i can't seem to let it go, i am terrified.

Thank you in advance for any help

First of all, welcome and very sorry to hear that

Where was your partner registered on the electoral roll?

Hi,

Thanks for replying, I'm not sure if he was to be honest, i know he left his mums house at 18, and was pretty much sofa surfing, spent a period of time in a hostel and then the rest at his dad's. He wasn't 'down' as living there, and all his post(bank statements) were to his mum's address.

Really there are a couple of things I picked as the main issues. First of all you admitted living together as a couple since 2014 so that is beyond doubt? The area of contention seems to be the period 2011 and 2014. If he has things like a driving licence or mobile bill registered at his mum'a address or as Nystagmite mentioned was on the electoral list it can be shown that was his address for all intents and purposes.

It isn't necessarily the amount of time you spent together between 2011 and 2014 that defines you as a couple living together other things are taken into account such as were you sharing bills, did he have any money paid into your bank accounts, did he have bills sent to your address. Remember what information you give them goes towards what they base their decision on. I know it is hard not to concentrate on the end result but take one thing at a time. It is not worth putting your energy into worrying about how much they will say you will owe or how your will pay it back until you know the outcome.

Are you on daily medication for your current medical situation? ( I don't need to know what it is). I would seriously consider ESA if you think there is no prospect of you returning to work in the near future as this will give access to other benefits

Thanks for replying,

Yes i told them that he has been living here since august 2014 so that is not being disputed and the single person credit I've been receiving in that time i expect to have to pay back without a doubt. So it is the period 2011 up until 2014 that is being questioned,

He doesn't have a driving license, he has a provisional license that is registered to his mums address. No phone bills or anything we can think of. He had all bank statements ect to his mums address, his doctors/dentist ect was all registered in his home town, the only thing that had my address on was that job he took in 2012 because he put my address on his C.V.

We weren't sharing bills, my name is on all of my own bills except the BT which was very recent. He did sell things when times were very hard and would give me what ever he could so i suppose that is the financial link.

I am only taking Beta blockers called Propranolol each day for physical symptoms of anxiety, and that is a struggle as i have anxiety around medication. They have suggested anti depressant numerous times but the thought scares me

If it is your contention that you were not living together 2011 -2014 then it is for them to prove otherwise as you can show all his mail was going to his address. I wouldn't volunteer any information that is unnecessary for example he put your address on a cv, they are investigating you not him. You can point out his doctor and dentist etc were all registered at his home address.

Very true, i am just over thinking absolutely everything. I probably won't do myself any favour's in the IUC, but can you tell me if you can legally refuse to answer a question?(If you're unsure) basically saying no comment.

I will make sure i make the points of his mail and doctors/dentist and anything else i can think of that can 'show' he was not living with me

Another question - Would i qualify for any legal help i am employed but only receiving SSP £87 a week, my partner is employed only 30 hours on Minimum wage at the moment. Not much disposable income at all.

Is citizens advice the way to go for advice or shall i wait til after the IUC to see what is happening

Citizens advice is a good place to go for free advice and preferably before your IUC. If you are on a low income you may get legal aid or an accredited representative. To answer your other question you will be under caution which states 'you do not have to say anything...' if you can't answer something because you cannot recollect what they are asking about them simply state that. You can also say you cannot answer a question without taking advice or say no comment but be aware how this might appear.

Someone else who is more knowledgeable than myself about the process will be along soon but certainly tale independent advice before your IUC

You can not answer a question during an IUC. An explanation of the caution might be

"I'm going to show you some forms and ask you some questions. You do not have to answer my questions. However, this is your first opportunity to offer an explanation. If the matter did go to court and you tell the court something you could have told me today, then the judge or magistrate might wonder why you have not told me today and this may mean they are less likely to believe you.

You do not have to stay here with me"

That does not mean to say that if you don't know the answer to a question that you should panic - you should merely say so.

The principal behind that is something called adverse inference.

You can not answer a question during an IUC. An explanation of the caution might be

 

"I'm going to show you some forms and ask you some questions. You do not have to answer my questions. However, this is your first opportunity to offer an explanation. If the matter did go to court and you tell the court something you could have told me today, then the judge or magistrate might wonder why you have not told me today and this may mean they are less likely to believe you.

You do not have to stay here with me"

 

 

That does not mean to say that if you don't know the answer to a question that you should panic - you should merely say so.

The principal behind that is something called adverse inference.

"You can not answer a question during an IUC." is quite ambiguous!

Is that "you cannot answer a question" or (more likely)

"You can choose to not answer a question, but the downsides are ...."

My money is on the latter!

"I don't know" and "I don't remember" are also valid answers (provided, of course that it isn't obvious that you should know or remember!)"

The latter., I don't know or I can't remember are valid. Far better to say that than give the wrong info.

I omitted the word "choose"

Thanks for your answers. I fear 'I don't know' doesn't sound great as an answer but if that's the truth then i suppose it is better than guessing.

I checked with my local solicitors and they said i don't qualify for legal help so i will have to look into that after the IUC pending the outcome, for now i am just trying to get in to see CAB for some general advice

Thanks again