I am posting this on behalf of a friend, who sent a valuable piece of sports equipment through Hermes.

Firstly he failed to pay extra for insurance as he did not see it at the time. He also made the classic mistake of not checking the weight thoroughly. It was just over 5 kgs.

A case was opened on 2nd November when the parcel failed to arrive. The case was supposed to be actioned within 24 hours.

On 5th November customer contacted Hermes chat with one of their agents, who informed him that the parcel was lost.

Hermes promised to send out a Lost Claim Form.

Customer informed Hermes that he was told by them that the parcel went to one of the warehouses, then informed him that he had to pay and extra £4.80, which was paid straight away.

Customer then asked how much he would be getting for the lost item, and he was told he would get the selling price and postage.

THIS IS ALL VERIFIED IN A COPIED TO EMAIL CHAT WITH THE AGENT.

Customer filled out the claim form and waited for the customary 14 days.

On the 23rd November and email arrived from Hermes, stating the following:

"We are please to confirm that we have today accepted and processed payment for your claim of £31.79.

As the item value exceeded the maximum compensation level you selected for this parcel, the claim value has been calculated by adding together the maximum compensation level with the postage value."

This was not what his claim was for (it was for over £300, they lost the parcel).

This may be negligent on their part to lose the parcel somewhere on their own premises, surely you do not insure a parcel against its disappearance from the delivery company's warehouse. You insure it against damage.

It is the intention of the customer to take Hermes to court, we are looking here for some help with a "Letter before Action" and wish to quote from Schedule 2, Terms 2 and 3.

Has anyone else tried this avenue with Hermes, and do you really think they would go through the cost of attending a court hearing?

Surely they have a duty of care to their customers to make sure that they do not lose parcels on their own premises.

Thank you in anticipation of any help that you can give.

Bankoff

I have always thought the it is rather a clever trick to enter into a contract with the customer, to promise to do certain things, and to force the customer to pay for insurance to cover any eventuality where the company fails to carry out their side of the bargain.

That has always seemed amazing to me and I'm very surprised that customers have gone along with it – but they have for so long that they expect that that's the way it should be and probably the companies also believe that that's the way it should be.

I'm not so sure.

This reminds me very strongly of extended warranties where companies persuade customers to take out insurance against an item breaking down within three years or five years even though that item is already adequately covered by the seller's responsibilities under the sale of goods act or now, the Consumer Rights Act.

I think it's about time that someone mounted a challenge. It's not only Hermes, it's not only extended warranties, it's also the Royal mail, parcel Force, and many other different companies which basically say – we will take your money, we will undertake to deliver your item but if we fail because we are negligent in some way, we will not pay you back unless you have paid extra for some insurance.

It's got to be nonsense – unless there is some particular law which protects them – and if there is then I would like to know what it is.

Given that you are only dealing with a value of £300 here the cost of starting a small claim is relatively cheap and frankly I think it's worth a punt. I can easily imagine that Hermes would be so nervous of losing this point in court because that would give rise to a newsworthy story and many other customers following suit, that they might put their hands up and pay you out on condition of confidentiality.

If they did decide to defend it, it would be costly for them and because of the small claims rules on costs, even if they won they would recoup very little. However, I think that there is a very high chance of them losing the case but I would like to see what the defence is.

I would suggest that you start researching the whole business of bringing a small claims in the County Court. There is lots of information on this site. Get an account with the MoneyClaim website – it's free.

Before you actually launch your claim, I think that we should have a look at their terms and conditions and so maybe you could link to them – or even better still post them up here so we can see what their likely arguments are.

Incidentally, this kind of system is why these companies never get any better.

There is no penalty for them if they fail to deliver your item or if they damage it in some way. You pay for the insurance, the insurance company pays for the replacement of the repair. The delivery company gets off Scott free.

Of course it's not worth their while to improve their systems or to do anything that might cost the money to do a better job.

Why should they?

It's only if they have to start paying for the damage or for the loss that they will then start to sort themselves out.

It's exactly the same with the extended warranty system

Hi BankFodder

Many thanks, you are absolutely right, they have got away with it for too long. I have an account with H so can look up this information and maybe copy here.

Have had some dealings with small claims, and do not find it difficult, but will get the friend to research it himself.

He feels really angry that they actually said they would pay for the item at what it was sold for on ebay. The copied chat is going to be good evidence of their promises to pay what the item was worth.

We also think they are unlikely to want the bad publicity.

Thanks again

My Hermes and similar companies have a duty of care for the items in their system as customers have paid a fee for them to transport the item safely (and reasonably quickly) from A to B. You do not need any extra insurance for them to do this. If you take them to court and they choose to defend (very unlikely) you will, of course, put them to task to prove they took good care of your item - which they will not be able to do.

They are supposed to have state of the art tracking systems in place so that on every stage of the journey the item can be located. They should be able to see where the item disappeared from their system - many courier companies make this tracking available to their customers. If you have/had access to this print out the tracking information.

Send a 'letter before action' outlining what your think their responsibilities are in relation to taking good care of your item whilst in their system - and don't be fobbed off by their insistence you needed extra insurance. Most of these insurance extra payments have so many get out clauses the insurance is worthless anyway.

As Bankfodder has indicated these companies need to be forced to face up to their responsibilities more often. Unfortunately too many let them get away with shoddy service and dreadful customer complaint procedures and accept that they have lost their items.

Paragraph 2 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448395-schedule-2-Part-1 might have some bearing on this.

Also, I would venture to say that if it is correct that liability for lost or damaged items is already sufficiently covered by their statutory consumer duties, then the insurance that they seem to be insisting on amounts to mis-sold insurance.

This would be extremely interesting as it could open the doors to tens of thousands of their customers beginning claims for reimbursement of the mis-sold premium.

Hi

Thank you both for your advice, what I need now is some help to put together the correctly worded letter, as the friend is anxious to get it started as soon as possible, so they know it is not going to go away.

They do have a tracking system, so maybe this can prove that the item is still with Hermes, thus proving that they have been negligent with the item.

I do not seem to be able to gain access to any templates now, as I have not posted on here for several years.

I would like to use all of the suggestions, especially the one about the insurance, and the fact that they have brought in a third party (insurance company).

I have read some of their terms and conditions, that have even covered their staff against the customer taking any action.

Any help we would be grateful

I'd like to see the T&Cs first please

I'd like to see the T&Cs first please

http://tinyurl.com/pwsu6hr

I suspect they are likely to be unfair(not read them yet) as they are very likely to be worded to MyHermes benefit.

Bankoff - please will you check with your friend to confirm that the T&Cs above are the ones which relate to his contract

Hi

These are the very terms and conditions and not only are they hiding behind an enforced insurance, which also covers their staff, so please can you help with the letter.

We are willing to take this further,

Thank you all for hrlping

Well I don't think it's very complicated to begin this.

I'm assuming that you've got full evidence of the price paid for the item and its value.

Is it second-hand?

I just noticed that he was required to pay an extra £4.80. Can you tell us what that was for please?

Hi Bank Fodder

Full evidence of the price of the item through eBay selling price. It was second hand.

Parcel well wrapped with return address inside.

The weight was over by .7 of a kilo, the box was heavier than anticipated. H must have weighed it and then demanded more postage, which was paid straight away, so they definitely had the parcel in their warehouse or somewhere similar.

It is interesting to note that they have removed all trace of the parcel from their system.

Bankoff

I think that we need more definite detail about the payment please. It may have a bearing. You say "... must have weighed it and then ..."

Please can you find out the exact circumstances and the conversation etc. Was there a receipt for the payment and what did it say?

Frankly it would be helpful if your friend would get involved directly and tell us the whole story

Hi

The customer weighed the parcel at 4.8.

The customer tracked the parcel to the recipients local depot, which was where they held it because of the weight.

They emailed to say that the weight was 5.7 and there would be a further charge. This further charge was sent by invoice through PayPal. It was then paid by the customer. There was a receipt for the payment.

Have 3 emails to verify all this.

Okay. Thanks. No great relevance then as far as we can see at the moment.

I think that you simply need to write them a letter – nothing fancy nothing formal. Simply refer to the reference number and the fact that on such and such a date they contracted to transport your parcel and to deliver it to a certain address.

In breach of the contract they failed to do this and they have informed you that the parcel is lost.

The contents of the parcel were XXX and you enclose documentary evidence of its value and you want repayment of that sum in full + the wasted delivery fee.

Tell them that if you do not receive reimbursement in full within 14 days that you will begin a small claims in the County Court to recover the money + interest and without any further notice.

Don't make this threat unless you are absolutely prepared to go ahead with the action. Don't expect that you can bluff it and they will simply pay the money. They won't and you will have wasted your time and lost credibility and also made it more difficult for others.

If they don't respond within 14 days then start the action. If they make any kind of response then let us know about it.

I suggest that we see the letter before you send it. Don't embellish it with anything else.

Although it won't happen until the action has actually been started, you may find that they then try to make your payment under conditions of confidentiality.

If this happens, then please let us know. If necessary send me a confidential email to admin email address.

Agree with BF - get the LBA off ASAP.

It is unlikely you will get a response until after the summons reaches them because too many threaten to take further action against them and never do so. They will believe your LBA is simply bluster and hot air.

You may not even get a response after the Summons so you are likely to win by default. If so come here for advice about enforcing the judgment.

Hi Again

Am doing the LBA now, will post when done.

What I have since discovered is that they have already been given 14 days to return the parcel or pay the full value, which runs out tomorrow, nothing heard yet, but do not expect anything. So to keep within the already given 14 days, we need to send the letter tomorrow. There was no court action threatened in the email, so here we go.

Back later with letter

Hi Bankoff

Here it is, plain and simple as instructed.

"To Name and address of Company

Name & Address of Customer

9th December 2015

Letter before Action

Dear Sirs

Reference Number of Parcel and value

On (date parcel paid for and sent) you contracted to transport my parcel and to deliver it to (insert address of recipient).

In breach of the contract you have failed to do this as you have since informed me that the parcel is lost.

The contents of the parcel were (insert contents) and I enclose documentary evidence of the value of the parcel.

I require repayment of that sum in full and the wasted delivery fee, which amounts to (insert total amount). The sum of £31.79 already reimbursed by you to be deducted.

If I do not receive reimbursement in full within 14 days then I shall begin a Small Claim in the County Court to recover the money, plus interest and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

(Signature of Customer)"

That seems OK - send by Recorded Delivery and keep the receipt safe. Then start the countdown.

Personally I would allow an extra margin of a couple of days before using the Small Claims route and if nothing is heard commence action as threatened. It is doubtful if you will hear anything from them as they will see your threats as bluff - as most never carry through with further action. The chances of your success are very high as they will probably settle once the Small Claims action gets under way. Being pragmatic they will see paying you off as the lesser of two evils as any success for them in the Small Claims Court would prove both costly and very elusive.

edit

Hi Bankoff

 

Here it is, plain and simple as instructed.

 

"To Name and address of Company

 

 

 

Name & Address of Customer

 

9th December 2015

 

Letter before Action

 

Dear Sirs

 

Reference Number of Parcel and value

As I have already informed you in my letter of XXXXdate, on (date parcel paid for and sent) you contracted to transport my parcel and to deliver it to (insert address of recipient).

In breach of the contract you have failed to do this as you have since informed me that the parcel is lost.

 

The contents of the parcel were (insert contents) and I enclose documentary evidence of the value of the parcel.

 

I require repayment of that sum in full and the wasted delivery fee, which amounts to (insert total amount). The sum of £31.79 already reimbursed by you to be deducted.

 

You have not responded to my previous letter, therefore if I do not receive reimbursement in full within 14 days then I shall begin a Small Claim in the County Court to recover the money, plus interest and without any further notice.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

(Signature of Customer)"

Hi BankFodder

Thank you, very good of you to look this one over, shall make the changes, and will follow advice on giving a few extra days. Will keep you all posted on the result.

You are in good hands with bankfodder. Don't stress too much if on occasion he takes time to respond. He is also quite busy doing other stuff.

Spotted this yesterday and while not the same company, it shows how some companies work

I recently bought a cooker from a supplier via eBay and arranged for Parcel2Go.com to collect it and deliver it to my home in north-east Scotland, for £50. When it arrived it looked as though it had literally been dropped off the back of a lorry – both doors were smashed, and it is useless.

Parcel2Go initially approved my claim for a refund, but then rejected it on the basis that I hadn’t opted for insurance. When I pointed out that TNT, the actual courier, must have been negligent to cause that much damage, Parcel2Go pointed to a clause in the terms that indemnifies it against pretty much anything. This arises from certain goods being classed as “no compensation items”. Ironically, the insurance cover that was offered would not have been valid anyway, so the reason they gave me for rejecting my claim was disingenuous.

When I booked the delivery I read the terms. The “no compensation items” are listed in alphabetical order, so when I didn’t see cooker or oven listed in “prohibited or special goods”, I moved on to the next section. It turns out that it lists ovens as “white goods”.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/nov/28/parcel2go-insurance-terms-no-compensation

Hi Silverfox

I know how busy he is, do you remember the good old days of beginning of Bank Charges, I was very busy on here getting my brother out of bankruptcy, he had about £18000 worth of charges from various CCards and Lloyds, it was really good fun watching the banks squirm.

I knew BankFodder would have the answer to this one, and the person involved will go ahead. When you have lost £300 of goods it is not funny.

I do hope this goes forward and that many other people on here who have been treated the same, will also go ahead and make a claim. Will let you all know how it goes, letter being posted today, direct to the Customer Services Manager.

Lots of interesting comments at the bottom of The Guardian article too along the same lines as here.

Someone has been negligent, unfair terms may apply, mis-selling of insurance. I agree that it certainly would be worth making a court claim.