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    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Will a conditional discharge affect the immigration process to the UK?


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Hi guys,

 

Can you please advise if you have to disclose a conditional discharge as a conviction for immigration purposes?

The question is whether you have a conviction (not a criminal record, which you likely do) and it is arguably NOT a conviction. Different appeals for immigration or employment purposes have been won by appellants not having disclosed this as a conviction. Please advise.

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Hi there, I have moved your post to its own thread so people can help advise you.

As this is a immigration purpose, I have moved your thread to a forum where you may get the right advice. If ytou get no feedback in 24 hours feel free to use the report option at the bottom of your post. (Triangle with ! in it)

 

 

Please can you help users by explaining what the conditional discharge is.

 

Regards

 

SS

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Hi guys,

 

Can you please advise if you have to disclose a conditional discharge as a conviction for immigration purposes?

The question is whether you have a conviction (not a criminal record, which you likely do) and it is arguably NOT a conviction. Different appeals for immigration or employment purposes have been won by appellants not having disclosed this as a conviction. Please advise.

 

I'm intrigued as to how they got a conditional discharge without either:

Pleading guilty, or

Pleading "not guilty" but being found guilty.

 

On what basis are you arguing that isn't a conviction?

 

 

At what stage of the immigration process?

Visa? (If so, which tier)

ILTR?

Naturalisation?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/406368/Chapter_18_Annex_D_v02.pdf

 

Has, on p.30 (when referring to 'rehab' periods) a period of at least 1 year listed for conditional discharge

 

Was the offence one of "serious harm"? : where a longer period can be applied by the UKBA decision maker......

 

It may be worth disclosing it and allowing them to decide (appealing if necessary), rather than not disclosing it where (if they concluded an attempt to deceive) it could lead to a protracted period of exclusion.

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It was issued on the basis of pleading not guilty but being found guilty. The question on the immigration form is not about guilt. They ask if you have a conviction or not. Full stop.

 

ILR.

 

A conditional discharge by definition is not a conviction, however you get a criminal record.

 

Please refer to this case for more. https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov.uk/utiac/2014-ukut-314

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It was issued on the basis of pleading not guilty but being found guilty. The question on the immigration form is not about guilt. They ask if you have a conviction or not. Full stop.

 

ILR.

 

A conditional discharge by definition is not a conviction, however you get a criminal record.

 

Please refer to this case for more. https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov.uk/utiac/2014-ukut-314

 

Referring to that case they cite

Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/6/part/II

 

ABSOLUTE AND CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE

 

12 Absolute and conditional discharge.

 

(1)Where a court by or before which a person is convicted of an offence (not being an offence the sentence for which is fixed by law or falls to be imposed under section 109(2), 110(2) or 111(2) below) is of the opinion, having regard to the circumstances including the nature of the offence and the character of the offender, that it is inexpedient to inflict punishment, the court may make an order either—

(a)discharging him absolutely; or

(b)if the court thinks fit, discharging him subject to the condition that he commits no offence during such period, not exceeding three years from the date of the order, as may be specified in the order.

 

"Where a court by or before which a person is convicted of an offence"

 

Initially it would not be hard to argue that for a conditional discharge to be ordered, there must have been a conviction for an offence - the statute says so.

 

However, it then goes on :

 

"(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, a conviction of an offence for which an order is made under section 12 above discharging the offender absolutely or conditionally shall be deemed not to be a conviction for any purpose other than the purposes of the proceedings in which the order is made and of any subsequent proceedings which may be taken against the offender under section 13 above."

 

Are they still within the period of the conditionsl discharge?

 

There may be an effect if the conditional discharge conditions might be broken and the discharge revoked ....

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Just as it states that:

 

(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, a conviction of an offence for which an order is made under section 12 above discharging the offender absolutely or conditionally shall be deemed not to be a conviction for any purpose other than the purposes of the proceedings in which the order is made and of any subsequent proceedings which may be taken against the offender under section 13 above."

 

 

 

There are several arguments on that thread, ultimately coming to the conclusion that a discharge is not a conviction and granting the appellant leave to remain. This is noted in the Case title and explained in the end.

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Just as it states that:

 

(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, a conviction of an offence for which an order is made under section 12 above discharging the offender absolutely or conditionally shall be deemed not to be a conviction for any purpose other than the purposes of the proceedings in which the order is made and of any subsequent proceedings which may be taken against the offender under section 13 above."

 

 

 

There are several arguments on that thread, ultimately coming to the conclusion that a discharge is not a conviction and granting the appellant leave to remain. This is noted in the Case title and explained in the end.

 

I'd just edited my post to reflect that

 

So, if you knew the answer, why pose the question?

 

Depending on if the applicant is still within the period of the conditionsl discharge (where it could be reactivated), one might distinguish such from the appellant noted above.

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PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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I'd just edited my post to reflect that

 

So, if you knew the answer, why pose the question?

 

Depending on if the applicant is still within the period of the conditionsl discharge (where it could be reactivated), oneigjt distinguish such from the appellant noted above.

 

Just wondering what people's views are on the case and how they're bound to argue that. I am still unclear in my head regardless of the successful appeal I posted whether it would be honest to answer NO to the question. :/

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If so, the conditional discharge may well still be "active".

Was it for fraud by false representation?? They would be hard pushed to describe such (for £30!) as falling into the "really serious harm" category....

 

How long was the conditional discharge for (it can be for up to 3 years)

 

What if they argue that the appellant in the case you cited knew the conditional discharge couldn't be reactivated because they were outside of its period, and an offender still within the period of the conditional discharge doesn't have that certainty.

 

Why not disclose it an any application, noting that strictly speaking you don't have to do so, (citing the upper tribunal case) and that you believe a decision maker should disregard it. However, you want to give them no reason to believe you are attempting to conceal anything, hence you are disclosing it.

Would that not be the best of both worlds, if you can ensure they must disregard the conditional discharge?

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Because the more you disclose, the more it confuses them so I'd rather not, unless I have to.

 

It is for £30 that ruined my life even though I maintained my innocence until the end but it is for dishonesty and they don't take lightly to that.

 

Furthermore, they have mandatory grounds for refusal now and they won't think twice to weigh the severity of the crime but refuse straightaway, regardless.

 

The appellant in question had applied BEFORE their conditional discharge was spent (applied on 5 Aug 2012, spent on 29 Oct 2013). Of course the appeal seems to have taken ages (May 2014) so eventually I think their conviction became spent too! That's not why they won though, their sol seemed to have successfully argued that they didn't have a conviction to answer for. Mine won't be spent for 2 years either.

 

I think I might disclose it in a cover letter after ticking NO and explaining the details of my offence and the Upper Tribunal decision so at least I won't be done for Deception.

 

I could always get Further Leave to remain (not Indefinite) for which the the conviction isn't a bar, but I just am so mad and frustrated with how they dragged out my case that paying 100 times the £30 in costs wasn't sufficient but now the rest of my life will have to be ruined by said conviction too!

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Last post to that thread (until today) was December 2014.

So, your case was decided I'm the last 4 months?

 

Only just.

 

I have now added a bit of info on the original thread too.

 

I am immensely grateful for your help BazzaS, the support of the whole forum but especially YOUR advice always correct and to the point has been of great help.

 

I am still in a living hell as my life's been turned upside down but will have to learn to live with it. Thank You for everything.

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as you say speranza, was obiter according to archbold, to be decided on 'another day'.

but, according to the govt, a cond discharge goes on a persons 'criminal record'.

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a cond discharge goes on a persons 'criminal record'.

 

Hi guys,

 

The question is whether you have a conviction (not a criminal record, which you likely do) and it is arguably NOT a conviction.

:?::!:
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Hi guys,

 

The question is whether you have a conviction (not a criminal record, which you likely do) and it is arguably NOT a conviction.

 

:?::!:

 

yes, it is arguable, as said in that case you posted. that was decided re dishonesty ie on reading of the statute wasnt dishonest in stating no conviction. whether it is/shld be a 'conviction' re such 'other areas' is 'for another day'.

just saying what the govt says, and prob wld be a matter of statutory interpretation, and semantics either way as archbold suggest; 'found guilty of' cf. 'convicted'

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  • 5 weeks later...

I have been following this and I am wondering since you got a conditional discharge Speranza I hope you will appeal? Sounds to me like you have been a VICTIM in all of this and not a perpertrator. I go with a previous poster that you may have been sold a counterfeit product in the first place?

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I am in the process of appealing right now. I have been through hell and back but there's some light at the end of the tunnel. :)

 

Many people said it's not wroth the cost for such a 'light' sentence but I'd rather die than have my name tarnished for something they had no evidence against me but the item which THEY sent me.

The crown offered no evidence of order fulfilment from the warehouse or garment history (if it may have been purchased/ returned before etc) as I had asked for disclosure, but my barrister was beyond incompetent and decided to go for lunch after 1 hour and the jury were instructed to convict.

The process was unfair. Fingers crossed it won't take too much time and money to appeal. Thanks everyone for the support.

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it is something to discuss.

what i meant re 'another day', is that the tribunal on the day said that and didnt consider that particular issue.

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  • 3 months later...
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