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furzle V RBOS


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Right - I'm determined to stop reading about this and doing nothing... time to act!

 

I wish I'd done this a year ago as I recall a particualarly tricky time just after uni with bounced cheques taking me ever further overdrawn etc... BUT even in past few years I bet lots has accrued.

 

I called RBOS today on the phone banking line and asked for all my old statements, they said they can send 7 years worth for a fiver and they should arrive in the next 6 to 10 working days.

 

I will go through them all and work out the charges.

 

I have been thinking today - do you tink that once this has gone on for a while, the banks will be forced to pay everyone in the country back? I assume that is what will happen eventually? If that does happen - will they still just pay back 6 years worth? I mean - will they not have to refund the lot? And if so - will people like us who have had 'final' payouts for the last 6 years then be able to collect for previous years?

 

I know that is very hypothetical but was just wondering about it?

 

So - will keep you posted on here. I've been very inspired by everyone's tales! The guy on the end of the phone sounded like he was having a chuckle when I requested the info - I bet he is getting lots of these calls now!

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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OK - three large thumps indicated the arrival of my statements dating back to 1999. I will start highlighting charges and then will claim on Monday...

 

I'll be interested to see how long this takes...

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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And just another quick post as I get used to the features of the website to see if I can get my signature working - I like to see at a glance how people are progressing with this!

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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:o GOOD GOD!!!

 

I have just spent a while going through the statements with diferent coloured highlighters for the various charges.

 

All my life was there. The dates, the house moves, the bills... It was like an archaeological dig.

 

I had forgotten the time the bank gave me a loan to pay back debt after charges accrued... then EVERY month for a year I got a charge when the loan repayment came out and took me over the limit. Unpaid item charge for all those loan repayments.

 

I'm going to do some more reading now to work out all the dif charges and which I can reclaim. Also I will get my loan statements as well as would like to see what interest I have paid on the loan I took to get myself out of the trouble they put me in (and kept me in).

 

Honestly - I reckon that over the past 2 years (since getting better paid work) they have LOST so much cash now that I'm no longer collecting charges that they have probably had to close two branches.

 

I am now abbreviating this site as the CON. Action Group. I'm really angry now. I had re-read lots of your stories and had wondered how all that cash totted up and NOW I KNOW.

 

Watch this space. I'm furious :mad: and I'M GETTING MY MONEY BACK!

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Please can someone point me to the correct thread for identification of the various charges?

 

'Charge' - often £28 I think is going over overdraft?

'Referral charge' = ???

'interest' - how do I calculate which bits of this I can claim and which bits I can't?

 

the other penalties are quite clear 'misuse of card', 'unpaid item' etc.

 

In fact if I go through just for past 6 years (I have calculated this as 6 years back from next Mon - the date I will send letter - is this ok?) then it is £894.20 but that is without any of the 'interest' charges and without any of the charges I don't understand. I will investigate those further on here this weekend.

 

Any help from the experienced?

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Here is the info on charges from RBS current site - it explains what they are for - now - which ones can I claim back?

 

Unarranged overdraft - maintenance charge £28 per month

(£10 per month for R21/Graduate & Student customers) Unarranged overdraft – Items referred prior to payment (paid referral Fees) £30 for any day on which a paid referral(s) occurs (max £90 per month) Letter to inform you of an unarranged overdraft Free Unauthorised transaction fees - cheques, Standing Orders and Direct Debits returned unpaid £38 Unauthorised transaction fees - misuse of cheque guarantee card/Maestro £35 per item Default Notice Charge £30 each Charge for court orders/legal processes served on the Bank, brought on by a third party against a customer £25 minimum

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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I don't really know how to get help on here - what if no one looks at your threads?

 

Problem 1 - I don't know how much of my monthly interest charge is because of charges and I don't know what the various rates have been over the years. Can't seem to work the spreadsheet to work it out!

 

Problem 2 - don't know what rate of interest to go for - how many have bitten the bullet and gone for compounded contractual? Anyone won yet doing this?

 

Really keen to get the prelim off but want to make sure it is right. Only (!) £894.20 of charges but plenty of interest - though I don't know how much of that is down to charges.

 

Would love to know if I can claim back the interest on the 2 RBS loans I have had over the years to 'pay off' the OD I was living in thanks to their charges (more than 6 years ago...)

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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HI everyone. I was ent statements from my bank, rather than list of charges and reasons.

 

Each of the charges on statements (unless for card misuse or unpaid) just say 'charge' and the amount. In the teeny weeny key to abbreviations it just says 'details on request'. Well - I have requested details and been sent bloody statements. Asking me to request details...

 

Same for the interest 'details on requset'.

 

I have phone banking. Do you think I should just ring the lovely people on there (they are great) and list the charges one at a time to find out what they are?

 

Otherwise I just don't know what to put on the spreadsheet under reason for charge / type of charge etc.

 

Any advice? What did others do???

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Hi,

 

On my spreadsheet I put 'charges as notified' down the whole colum.

You will know by the amounts, what charge is what(I think)

The charges I had were Returned d/d charges and excess overdrawn charge.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

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Hi Furzle,

 

I struggled with this for a while- have you got a Royalties account- either gold or any of the others? Does it say 'Charge to [date]' for each one? If so, you'll need to deduct the monthly cost from the charge. It should say at the top of the statement what type of account it is. This link really helped me:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland-bank/42749-bit-help-you-rbos.html

 

Thanks

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Thanks for that!

 

No - it wasn't a royalties account. Well - it was for 3 months as they put me on without me asking but that has been refunded already as I had a mini strop at the time!

 

The referrals are marked and the over draft charge (for going over) is always £28 from what I can work out but there are all sorts of other random things and amounts (including amounts that are not in straight pounds but include pennies) that I have no idea about. I may phone about a couple of them and see if that throws any light on the others.

 

Thanks guys

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Just a thought but as the statements from RBS do not specifically state reasons for charges OR reasons for interest on them (unlike some other banks') - instead using a key which states 'full details on request' - could this not be raised by those people claiming re. concealment?

 

I know it isn't concealment entirely as presumably you COULD track down this info but I would argue that as it places the onus on the individual to research the bank's reasons and methods for apportionment of interest/charges, it is far from a transparent system.

 

I think it could well be worth a little paragraph.

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Full details on request at the branch like a charges leaflet maybe. Not sure about concealment but I'm sure others do have a view.

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Yes, of course full details can be SOUGHT out but it's quite hard work (as I am finding) to work out what charge / interest is for what. It is by no means transparent.

 

I don't think it would stand alone of course but did wonder whether it would be worth mentioning as further evidence of RBS failing to make their methods clearly know to their customers.

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Well, the problem is that you are claiming 6 years and prior to that in some cases. problem may not be the right word. But if you had the charges leaflets from the year dot of your account it would be easier as well as any alterations over the years. It is difficult I agree and there should be a way. I had an idea which I have just thought of, what about asking as well as SAR for fees brochures from the time your account was opened. That may be a way to go.

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That's a good idea. I don't know if they'd be legally obliged to provide it as it wouldn't come under data protection etc but it would be handy!

 

I have no idea what some of the charges are for on my statements - some seem completely random! I can't get my head round calculating what percentage of the interest I have paid is down to the charges either but I don't want to miss out by not claiming it, if it is due.

 

Is it only the interest bit we can try to claim back at contractual rates or can we charge interest on the whole lot? I am getting v muddled after about 4 hours a day on here for past week!

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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The interest bit has always confused me while reading the threads but I do have a tip because Livelylad a Site Helper is trying to go further back than 2000 so I am sure he may be able to help iron out a few charges as well as some of the RBS winners in the successes part of the site. Hope that helps.

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I can't get my head round calculating what percentage of the interest I have paid is down to the charges either but I don't want to miss out by not claiming it, if it is due.

 

Hi, Furzle

 

What I've done with the spreadsheets is to simply isolate the charges and charge interest on them. NatWest's current advertised AER is 17.95% so that's what I'm putting in.

 

I have been overdrawn for much of the last six years and as the charges themselves are more than double my overdraft - and then there's the interest on top - I think it is perfectly valid to claim the interest as an additional cost levied on an unlawful charge. I think - though I may be wrong - that I can, then, charge statutory interest on top. But I'm willing to be corrected!

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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That's kind of what I have done so far. I have taken the charges and charged a contractual rate of interest on them as they are.

 

I also want to know though if I can claim back the interest I have been charged that they have taken from me (because of THEIR charges). I believe this is so AND that I can then also justifyably ask for interest on that amount too.

 

I am just finding it hard to apportion the amount of interest that has been taken from me due to the charges, and the amount that would have been taken in any case. To do that, I need to know what my overdraft limit (free) was at any time. Otherwise I don't know at what point the limit is being exceeded and I am being charged.

 

So - to clarify:

I want the charges back - plus interest on them

I want the interest back (that I have paid them) - plus interest on it.

 

Hope that makes sense?

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Yes, it does make perfect sense, especially as you're probably chewing the furniture with rage!

 

While it may be technically feasible to prove that other interest on your account was charged because the charges had made you overdrawn, I'm not sure it would be worth it. Check the amount of interest directly attributable to your charges and see what that adds up to.

 

To get to the interest that was levied on the whole overdraft, calculate it day-by-day and apportion it correctly would be very, very timeconsuming. After you've done all of that, it could be opposed anyway: you could be inviting strike-out of the whole claim because you're not claiming back a clear, direct and traceable loss. The thing about English Law, and why we don;t have those massive settlements they have in the USA, is that it is based on the principle of equity. You only get to claim back that which you have lost, or could have expected to lose, in the case of persoanl injury (which this is not about). This is civil, contract law. You can easily justify the damage directly related to the charges - i.e., the charges themselves and interest thereon. Anything beyond that becomes progressively greyer and you run ever-greater risk, at ever-greater expenditure of time and effort, and for what? Icing on the cake. I simply can't be bothered for a few £00, which will cost me more in time and effort than I can hope to get back.

 

That's my feeling, anyway - but it's not advice! I don't give advice, as I'm not a lawyer!

 

Best

 

Westy

  • Haha 1

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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You are completely right.

 

I had, to be honest, got really confused with what people who were claiming 'interest' were actually claiming.

 

I've now used Vampiress's simple spreadsheet for working out the interest and I think I will push for contractual compounded as it does seem most fair - I am following other threads where this is being done...

 

Of course - once you start compounding, every day counts! I had been planning to send details and letter on Mon but was still working it all out so have just gone and changed the day just by a few days to today. Well - of course that makes a difference.

 

Since the first charge I'm claiming was in Feb 6 years ago this coming Feb I'm now wondering whether I should hold on a couple more weeks to see how people do with their compounded clims - whilst at the same time adding more interest day by day to my claim...

 

But I did wonder if I should just go the simple interest route and try to push this through by just after Christmas - decisions decisions!

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Don't ask me - I'm a visitor here myself!!:D

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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  • 2 months later...

Since I last posted, I have done a fair bit of research as there were several mysterious bank charges on my statements. As a result of requesting info on these (I hadn't said a WORD about reclaiming anything at this point) I received a letter saying that these specific amounts had been credited back to my account since "the reason for the application of these charges is unclear".

 

Great! So now the bank is admitting that it doesn't even KNOW why I've been charged .. that hardly fills me with confidence in their methods and records. I've stated as much in my claim for a refund on all the unlawful charges.

 

Following sweet revenge's success with unauthorised interest thread, I have claimed £1,037 in charges and a further £956.81 in interest at their unauth rate of 29.8% Total £1,993.81

 

Going in the post today, recorded delivery.

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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My postman battled through the blizzards to deliver my letter today "sorry to hear you are dissatisfied, referring to customenr services... etc etc"

 

The ball is rolling!

 

The snowballs are rolling too - school closed today! Don't know who is more happy teachers or children. I've made a snowman and am eating cinnamon toast. Lovely.

 

Bet the banks know a thing or two about the snowball effect... ha ha!

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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