Hi Everyone

Yorkshire bank have charged me for not having enough money in my account to cover a Direct Debit.

They dont take the money straight out of my account putting me overdrawn,

they send me a letter saying when they are going to,

and Ive always had the money in the account when they take their monthly charges

Would these charges be refundable the same as if I had been charged and gone overdrawn.

Thanks

Phillip

Unarranged overdrafts are 1,000 of % more that a payday loan, so they are doing you a favour by warning you beforehand. At least it gives you the chance to put your account into credit.

BCOBS?

dx

Yorkshire Bank refusing to consider paying back bank charges despite knowing I am on JSA.

Last month, Dec 2014, I should have received JSA on 13th and 27th. With my DD's one goes out on 28th and the other two at the beginning of the month.

What I did was I assumed that I would be paid on time on the 27th, normally I am. So when I get paid on 27th I leave the £60 to cover my DD's. The problem is that the DWP didnt pay us untill 6pm on the 30th, which was a one hour payment thing.

So to cut a long story short, my DD didnt get paid so Yorkshire Bank charges me, this puts me overdrawn, then then turn round and start charging me for going overdrawn, which they take the next month.

I read a post about a Lloyds customer getting unfair charges back and a link to legislation that people on JSA are protected from unfair bank charges (someone correct me here if Im wrong). So I wrote a letter to Yorkshire Bank. I had a letter from them today saying they are refusing to consider paying back any bank charges and that the legislation I quoted means, and I quote their answer here

"Your email quotes section 187 of the social security administration act 1992, which you feel should protect those in receipt of benefits from being charged. However, the purpose of this act is to stop benefit money being at risk by it being given or transferred to a third party in payment of a debt. It is not meant to stop bank charges if the money paid into your account comes from benefits or tax credits"

Im on a tight budget, so if I lose benefit money through bank charges, because the DWP screwed up, and the next month I get unauthorised overdraft fees then this has the effect that my JSA is less which means I end up in a vicious circle. So could I ask for some advice here of how to proceed ?

Thanks

Phillip

Is this a basic account?

Yep its a standard basic account, no overdraft facilities etc, just a debit / cashpoint card

Ive just found this

"Once a benefit payment is credited to an account it merges with the existing account balance,

whether this is overdrawn or in credit.

If the account is overdrawn the bank are fully within their rights to offset the benefit payment against the overdraft and take any charges.".

My arguement is that I have no other income going into my bank account.

The only money going into the account is my JSA,

so does that blow the theory of "merging with existing account balance, and dont know whats jsa or not"

I suggest that you read up all about BCOBS.

We have a lot of people on this forum who have basic bank accounts and run into this kind of trouble.

The core feature of a basic bank account is that there is no overdraft facility. Sometimes the banks use their discretion and allow a payment to be made so that the account goes overdrawn anyway and then they levy a charge on top of that. I consider that to be a very dubious practice. Sometimes, as in your case, the banks refuse to let the payment go because you don't have the money and if it was paid it would take you overdrawn – and then for refusing the payment they levy a charge which does exactly – putting you overdrawn. They then compound the problem by levying charges upon charges which simply then enters you into a spiral of debt – and all this on an account which shouldn't have any overdraft at all.

I think that this is extremely unfair and I think that it breaks the rules on fair treatment under BCOBS.

One of the BCOBS rules is that the banks should take into account the interests of the customer when making any decisions. To me this means that the banks must put their customers interests before their own in order to produce a fair result.

In your case – as in the case of many other people - the bank has put its own interests first, firstly by levying a charge even though one could never by any stretch of imagination say that you have received any kind of service from them and secondly by then compounding charges upon charges even though they are fully aware that it is their decision which is what you overdrawn in the first place and thirdly it is a matter of the contract the basic account that there is no overdraft facility. Yet the banks are happy to provide an overdraft facility when it is in their favour.

You could complain to the ombudsman – but this could take up to 2 years and also it is unlikely you would get a decision in your favour – especially because the ombudsman's remit is in conflict with the law contained in BCOBS. The ombudsman attempts to reach a decision which is fair to both sides whereas BCOBS very clearly looks for fair treatment to the customer even if this is not completely in accordance with the interests of the bank.

The other thing you could do is to bring a small claim in the County Court under BCOBS. I rate your chances of success very high.

You would have to understand that this would not be a challenge that had been undertaken before so you would be piloting it to see what would happen. However the costs of going to small claims are very low and if you happen to lose you would not be penalised as long as you litigated reasonably. Also, because you are on benefits you would be able to apply for a County Court fee waiver in any event so it would cost you nothing.

From our point of view as a consumer rights group, we would like very much for an action of this type to go through because if it won then there would be a basis for a huge number of refunds to people who are basically impoverished and yet of had to pay the banks extortionate charges precisely because the banks acted in their own interests when managing their basic accounts.

It would also put an end to this dishonest practice

We would be very pleased to help you

Ive sent a letter of appropriation to see if that helps, otherwise I'll look at BCOBS rules as there is a couple I could look at.

old and new threads merged

The letter of appropriation is good but it won't get your charges back

Hi. Sorry for no posting earlier.

Yorkshire bank refused to pay back any bank charges, despite me using the fact that Im on JSA etc, and that my partner was sanctioned for three months.

I then used the right of appropriation letter to stop future charges. But I received a real snotty letter from them saying they had spoken to their legal department and that "Right of appropriation" didnt protect my JSA money, and that they were still going to charge me bank charges. So Ive done an online complaint to the financial ombudsman, but I dont hold out any hope regarding how much power they have.

You need another bank account and get payments paid into it.

I've moved to nationwide and found them ok.

At one time it was quite easy to open basic accounts with most banks but I don't know now,

but understand Barclays still accept most applications.

Not my favourite bank but sometimes needs must.

They are completely wrong. The right of appropriation reserves any money – wherever it comes from for certain priority needs.

They are treating you unfairly – and it is a matter for BCOBS. You can by all means send to the ombudsman – but you won't get a response for anything up to 2 years and the result is not guaranteed.

If you decided to bring an action in BCOBS then you would get a very rapid result and before then you find that the bank would cave in.

Frankly, even if you decide to go to the ombudsman, you are allowing yourself to be trampled upon by a bank which has very clear legal duties to treat you differently

Hi Everyone.

Ive been having problems with Yorkshire Bank taking money from my JSA for bank charges etc.

Whats happened is due to being sanctioned or bank holiday late payment from DWP, my DD's didnt get paid. So Yorkshire Bank charged me for this which put me overdrawn, then then charged me for unauthorised overdraft fee.

I asked them, using the social security act, if I could get a refund, they refused. I then used the first right of appropriation, which Yorkshire Bank stated was complete rubbish and didnt apply.

So I took it to the Financial Ombudsman Service, and have been told that, basically, the bank can do what they want, and me being on JSA dont mean squat.

The FOS reply was :

"I note you say that the charges applied have been deducted from your benefit income. I should explain that a deduction of charges from benefit payments does not contravene key statues, such as the Social Security Act 1992.

In respect of this I should explain that, unfortunately, there is a misunderstanding here as to the meaning of the wording of the Social Security Act 1992 when it refers to a 'charge' on benefit payments. Essentially, any reference to 'charges' in the relevant legislation means a 'lien' on the benefits - it makes it an offence to offer (or accept) a benefits entitlement as security. It does not mean that a bank cannot levy charges on an account if benefit payments are paid into it.

As such, my opinion on your complaint remains unchanged. As explained in my letter, consumers have the right to ask the ombudsman to review their case – as the final stage in our process."

So can I ask, is the above legal, or is there something else I can do ?

Thanks

Phillip

threads merged yet again on this debacle...

My advice is to go legal... LBA To Yorkshire Bank giving them one more chance.

WHY DIDNT YOU MOVE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT LIKE SAID BEFORE?!?!?

You are letting them walk all over you!

Hi fkofilee.

I do have another bank account. But moving banks isnt the issue. The issue is Yorkshire acting like they can do what they want regardless, and basically dumping the brown stuff on people with no recourse. Sorry to sound like im being rude, im not.

I know youre not ,

But even so... If you do take it legal, then they WILL close your account.

I would move over and get rid of them once and for all. Moving is easy...

It means you have nothing to lose!

I cant see anything here where CAG advised to goto the FOS?

post 14 says it all.

BCOBS is the way forward, first indicated in post 3 was it April last year.?

I cant see anything here where CAG advised to goto the FOS?

post 14 says it all.

 

 

BCOBS is the way forward, first indicated in post 3 was it April last year.?

BF said in post 14 the FOS might be an option. Anyway you build a case and sue them because they are treating you unfairly.

Hi there back in the early 90s I had loads of bank charges with Yorkshire bank !how do I go about trying to claim them back now ?

well out of time now sadly

Ok thankyou for your help.