It seems that every time we do a SAR on one company or another we find info about other accounts we had and paid off or were paying at the time. I've turned up a couple of old Capital One accounts that the wife and myself had in the early 2000's so sent SAR requests, one has arrived today.

It seems that I took a card from them in 2002 and all they have on file is a little form about a quarter of an A4 sheet headed 'Credit Card Account Agreement' and 'Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit act 1974'. The rest was difficult to read as it's badly copied small print. I've scanned and enlarged it. It's one of those 'sign and return' things, not a full agreement and certainly no mention of PPI on it.

On their archive system they have given me a screen shot of a page about PPI but it says 'no data'. However, in the list of transactions it clearly shows PPI being paid month by month. On another form, I think from them setting up the account, it shows both PPI and PPI2 as 'Y' and a rate of 89p per £100. The other figure I'll note here is shown as 'Lifetime APR' and that was 37.3% !!

Between 2002 and 2006 I have a number of PPI payments listed which total £466.75, ranging from 75p to £12.88 over the months. I know it does not work quite this way but, if I apply their own rate of 37.3% the FOSCISheet V101 spreadsheet adds in £19,506.41 of interest - that would be nice I'm sending them a completed FOS questionnaire to see what they say.

There are also lots of late payment and overlimit charged of £20 each, but that's a separate claim. The account went into default in 2006 and was passed to a DCA in early 2008, so is now S/B for recovery purposes.

if the charges were linked they should refund them too

dx

if the charges were linked they should refund them too

As in I only went overlimit because of the PPI, but can't really say that for late payment. I'll see what they come back with for PPI before putting in the claim for charges.

Interesting to note that the amount of charges, and accompanying interest, are quite similar. They started at £18, went up to £20 and the final ones were down to £12.

As in I only went overlimit because of the PPI, but can't really say that for late payment. I'll see what they come back with for PPI before putting in the claim for charges.

 

Interesting to note that the amount of charges, and accompanying interest, are quite similar. They started at £18, went up to £20 and the final ones were down to £12.

Fca Guidance on further redress-

DISP App 3.9.2

01/04/2013

FCA

In assessing redress, the firm should consider whether there are any other further losses that flow from its breach or failing that were reasonably foreseeable as a consequence of the firm's breach or failing, for example, where the payment protection contract's cost or rejected claims contributed to affordability issues for the associated loan or credit which led to arrears charges, default interest, penal interest rates or other penalties levied by the lender.

Fca Guidance on further redress-

Yep thanks, that agrees with my thoughts. Their calculations may include return of over limit charges if these are found to have been caused by the PPI payments.

Got to ask, because I don't think I'm doing it right here. When I send the FOS questionnaire to CapOne, should I add in a copy of the spreadsheet?

I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near how they will work it out as I've not taken into account the running balance, any over limit fees incurred or whatever. All I've done is list the PPI amounts paid, taken from the transaction records they supplies, and applied their own rate of interest.

If nothing else, it gives them something to relate to, knowing that I have taken the time to check what PPI was paid over the years the account was active. It also gives me an idea of what to expect - I think...?

Here's the spreadsheet, suitably modified to remove personal details and in PDF format. Does this seem right ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]53259[/ATTACH]

is the card still active?

dx

is the card still active?

No, last used in 2006, passed to DCA in early 2008, now SB'd

then you can only claim to

the date they stooped interest.

from then.

you can claim 8% statint on the resultant sum of the CISHEET.

use the statint sheet to do that

from the date their int stopped

OK, rather than get too deep into calculations, just to give myself a guideline idea, I'll just send the FOS questionnaire to them and see what comes back.

FYI, the revised figures show £466.75 in PPI charges taken, Interest at 37.3% to end of them charging interest is £605.88, total £1,072.63. Taking that from then until now with 8% added gives a total of £1,759.56.

It's possible they will come up with a different amount to that and I'd rather not give them ideas that I'd have happily accepted a lower figure if I had given them that data.

Agree that it would be wise not to let them know what you think the claim should be - wait till they come back - information is power but only when used effectively.

Standard response to say 'within 8 weeks' and they'll get back to me.

Amazing - they've turned this one around quickly, upheld in my favour, and made me an offer already.

They agree to within pennies that the PPI premiums were £466.53 but then they differ on interest and total,

coming out at £803.96 in my favour, after deducting £29.64 for the taxman.

There is a lovely paragraph I feel I must share:

"As you will be aware, we sold your debt to Lowell on xx March 2008 and the outstanding debt conprises in part of PPI premiums

and associated interest which you have not paid.

However, as a gesture of goodwill, we will be sending a chqeue for the full refund amount to you."

Isn't that nice of them, knowing that it's statute barred now

I can't really argue that they've got it wildly wrong as they were only 22p out on the premiums paid.

They've also says that they've allowed a further 38 days at 8% to allow for the settlement going through.

But, I'm puzzled as to what they've calculated the 8% on and from when.

Here's what they say:

PPI Premiums = £466.53 (8% = 299.80)

Associated Interest = £218.86 (8% = 140.64)

8% interest = £148.21 (£440.45)

- I'm using 19/09/2006 as the date the account ended,

so 2921 days (to 18/09/14) on the StatIntSheet101 spready,

the figures in brackets are what it says,

giving a total of £1,125.84,

less £88.09 to the taxman,

I get it to £1037.75.

They are £233.79 out ?

I know it's against all CAG guidance but I may phone and ask what date they've used and see if they'll compare my figures to theirs ;-)

I forgot to mention, the SAR for my wife's CapOne account arrived and there's nothing worth chasing, no PPI or late payments. Ah well, can't win 'em all

Strange that Lowell should choose to leave a message on my answering machine today with a reference number

that tracks back to the CapOne account that's statute barred.

Thankfully, I never answer unknown of withheld numbers and let the Panasonice phones do their stuff with caller barring

I tried calling CapOne to ask how they had calculated the 8% interest and got through to 'Dave', clearly in an Indian call centre.

I failed security somehow, he eventually put me through to a manager in Nottingham who tried calculating 8% of the PPI paid,

which was obviously wrong.

She went off line to speak to someone in the executive office.

After half an ABBA album she came back to me and said they would look into it

and send me a breakdown of the calculations and if they found it to be incorrect they would revise the offer.

assoc interest should surely have been between 19.9 and 24.9%

your offer doesnt seem sufficient to me

if you are a non taxpayer you can reclaim the tax deduction from hmrc

It depends what amounts incurred interest though ? If there were certain PPI payments that were made where no interest had occured perhaps?

I don't think the offer is right, the 8% is way out on my calculations.

I am a non-taxpapeyer, in as much as my pension and allowances don't reach the annual limit, normally, but I've had a previous payout this year where the 8% resulted in the taxman getting a few bob that just took me over the £10K, so I can't claim this back

C1 have sent a copy of their calculations.

They say these are in line with FOS guidance and I really cannot argue with the figures as I still don't have a clue how they've worked it out.

I used the FosCISheet v101,

entered the individual payments against the dates they were taken and got a very different set of figures.

My cut off point was in 2006, from the last statement showing PPI.

They appear to have used 2012, their list of calculations goes that far.

Their addition of the 8% starts low and gets higher, the spreadsheet I used calculated less per £ in chronological order

based on 8% APR of the PPI premium. Seems it does not work that way.

I doubt I'll get a better offer by pushing more and need them to pay up so I can take my next case through the courts

Those nice people at Lowell sent me a lovely letter, informing me that they will close my old CapOne account if I pay just 25% of the total outstanding, which was greatly inflated from what was actually owed 8 years ago when the account was shut down.

They seem to have forgotten to mention the Limitations Act 1980 again.

In the meantime, I've started a linked thread because it's the same CapOne account, but asking them to kindly repay the charges on the account: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?433315-Hillards-v-Capital-One-(charges)(5-Viewing)-nbsp

Cheque dated 8th October arrived this morning

Will advise when this clears so thread title can be updated.

Well done - this has just reminded me of a Crap One credit card closed 4 years ago - might be worth a SAR

Cheque cleared

Congrats Hillards, thread title updated for you.

Excellent news

Hillard, did you send Lowell a SB letter ?