Hi all

I hope someone can give me some advice...

I have an ongoing saga with both Harlands and then subsequently CRS since July of last year...

There has been a constant exchange of letters btwn us with both Harlands and CRS *ignoring* my reqsts that the debt is disputed due to the fact that the "agreement" contains "unfair terms".

I after 8 months of letters they have now decided to take the matter further by threatening with court action.

The gist of the letter is that their legal dept "are preparing a County Court Claim" but so far has not yet been sent to the court.

So they have enclosed a COPY of the alleged CC claim form - which just looks like a photopcopy of a blank form to me...

They have previouslty threatened to take court action b4 in TWO of their previous letters but took no further action...and then just carried on harrassing me with letters saying that I DID I owe the debt and that the "contract" was valid and in their view didnt contain any unfiar terms....

I believe that they are bluffing...as so far they have not taken the matter to court. If they felt confident that the matter would go their way in Court then they would have taken the matter to court months ago.

Can anyone give me any advice as to where I go from here??

Cheers

Muldy

Hi Muldy,

If the purpose of sending you the copy of a court claim form is intimidation, this should be reported to the FOS immediately. Clear breach of the OFT debt Collection Guidelines.

My stance would be:-

You should not have sent the copy court claim form. This is clearly meant to intimidate and your actions have been reported to the FOS for clear breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.

Take me to court if you wish. I will defend vigorously and your "contract" will be shown to be sadly lacking.

If you choose not to take court action, you must desist from making any further demands for payment.

8-)

Hi guys

Just thought you should all know.

I have some very good news!

I recently submitted a "set aside" application to the County Court and had my 10 minute hearing yesterday.

I also was supported by a barrister who attended court with me who is a wizz with contract law.

I'm pleased to report that the judge granted my set aside application after looking at the facts presented.

Next stage is to get the original court case against me struck out as both Harlands and CRS knew that they were relying upon terms which they had already agreed the previous year with the OFT under and undertaking not to use, or rely upon in any of their contracts!

Success!!

I hope this is a lesson learned that companies like Harlands & CRS can't use or abuse contract terms willy nilly and think they can get away with it.

I'm looking forward to getting the original court case now struck out of court.

Muldy

Hi Muldy and thanks for the update.

Can you give us a very brief summary of events from March 2011 up to date.

It is very rare for court action to be taken and we'd really like to know the details so we can continue to assist others being hounded by gyms and their Admin Co's.

Hi Slick

Yes if course.

Well...the course of events after that letter in March 2011 goes like this...

- recvd threat of court action March 2011

- lost current temp job April 2011

- moved back to my mothers in Hastings in May 2011 as current flat mate made living there unbearable due to my job loss - long story!

- set up postal redirection for 3 months so I would continue to recv post for Brighton address

- recvd further letters from CRS until last one dated 5th August 2011, which indicated they had had the debt assigned. This is really a mute point here as Harlands were administering the contract/membership anyway & CRS are only the debt recovery arm of Harlands!

- recvd no further communication from CRS after this date even though I'd given them my new address in my cancellation letter

- continued to live with mum until her death in Dec 2012

- sold bungalow and moved back to Brighton Oct 2013

- rented a flat in Brighton 2013. It was when I was bring credit checked found out that I had a CCJ against my name

- CCJ was to do with the gym contract with Riptide/Harlands/CRS

- did some more research on the web early 2014 & came across another site which was extremely helpful

- with their help put together a witness statement, & defence.

- submitted set aside application May 2014

- court hearing set for June 18, 2014

- had barrister attend with me as had really good case

- set aside granted by judge!

That's it in a nutshell.

It's been a long 5 years to get to this point!

I have now been told I have the chance to have the original court cause thrown out of court as it was invalid in the first place

This is due to Harlands having to sign an undertaking from the OFT as they were under investigation by them since 2011.

Essentially they had to sign an undertaking which says they can't use, or seek to rely upon terms which are unfair or unreasonable to the consumer.

I have been told by my acting solicitor that I have a very good chance of getting the court case overturned as it's these terms they are relying upon

The undertaking was signed by Harlands in Oct 2013

Full details can be found on the OFT site.

As you can imagine I'm very pleased with the outcome!

Muldy

Hi Muldy,

Can you confirm, when did you sign up, and how long for ?

Did you cancel for any specific reason like redundancy, moving home, illness or injury.

We've had plenty of experience with Harlands over the years. It may be that you you're happy to pay your sol'r to see an end to the matter but please keep us updated with progress on your case.

Harlands so rarely take cases to court, it's useful to know about when they do.

Hi Slick. Yes of course...

I signed up in Sept 2009 for the min m/ship period which was for 12 months - but the contract was worded in such a way that if you wanted to terminate early you could not.

It said under clause 4: "Irrespective of attendance or change in personal circumstance, this agreement cannot be cancelled."

This was their response when trying to cancel: "In common with very many Health and Fitness Clubs, your Riptide Gym Membership Agreement is payable by Direct Debit and was entered into for a fixed minimum period. Your request for cancellation cannot, therefore, be accepted and we must insist that you reinstate your Direct Debit mandate and pay your arrears…”

Yet each time the DD bounced - as I was paid weekly not monthly - I was asked to sign a new contract which had the effect each time of extending the original contract past the original 12 months! Hardly fair!! No separate DD mandate was ever offered. I thought this was very crafty on Harlands part.

This type of wording/clause has been deemed unfair by the OFT. This has been agreed by the OFT and the undertaking signed by Harlands.

Also the contract did not cancel automatically at the end of the 12 month period. It was worded so that unless you wrote to Harlands before the 12 months were up, the contract would auto renew and just carry on.

I wrote to cancel as I was losing my job and had to move back to my mothers in Hastings.

Point of note...My solicitors are doing this on a no win, no fee basis and in this particular case will be looking at getting the costs back from CRS as the judge has granted this.

This was the outcome of the hearing:The set aside was granted on 2 grounds:

1) That the claim was sent to the wrong address despite the defendant writing to the claimant informing them of a change of address and that the claim was returned as undelivered by someone living at the old address.

2) That the defendant has a good prospect of success in defending the claim on the basis that there is an issue to be determined that the terms that the claimant is relying upon are unfair under UTCCR.

Full costs were awarded.

I hope this answers your query? Muldy

Hi Muldy and thanks for the further info.

I appreciate that you have the benefit of a No Win, No Fee sol'r and/or barrister to look after your interests on the ongoing case.

However, our experience over the last 5+ years has been considerable and we can offer some pointers if you want them.

In any event, we will really appreciate you keeping us up to date on developments of the case when it is reconsidered by the court after the Set Aside.

Hi guys

Just to keep you updated...

My solicitor acting on my behalf has sent a letter to CRS hopefully with the intention of forcing them to retract their original claim.

The gist of the letter relies upon the the clauses in the undertaking that Harlands themselves agreed to by signing the undertaking with the OFT, otherwise they would have been subject to enforcement proceedings!

The letter was sent last Friday and it gave them 7 days to respond to the letter.

Not heard anything yet...

You may also like to know that CRS took no interest in attending court on the day. Which in itself is in my favour

When my solicitor rang them to find out of they were attending or not. They just said "Its just a set aside application".

I dont think they realised what they are missing here!!

Muldy

Hi Agy

I have read your issue you have with Harlands with interest as I too have had problems with them.

They were actually able to slap a CCJ against me!

However, with a bit of help I have now got that "set aside".

I would be interested in the last reply you had from Harlands - if at all.

And how you got on?

Muldy

Not been on here in ages as not needed to as I "won" my case against CRS/Harland’s - with a bit of good legal help...

Not only did I get them to withdraw the CCJ which had been "illegally" enforced against me - I also got my Court fee of £150 back from them.

Companies like Harland’s and CRS totally rely on the fact that the likes of "Joe Bloggs" i.e. normal average person doesn't know anything about the laws and what you can and can’t do - legally. That's what they rely on.

In my case they tried it on - but they lost.

Why did they lose?

Because they "twisted" what the law stated to their own ends.

CRS/Harland’s were gobsmacked when I took them to court - and won !

In-between when mine started back in 2009 and 2012 - CRS & Harland’s have been under investigation by the OFT..

.I think the case against them got resolved in 2012 following an investigation into the questionable conduct & contracting practices of Harland’s/CRS.

They signed an undertaking with the OFT on order to avoid enforcement proceedings.

If you need more info on what the undertaking states - let me know.

All this info is readily available on the OFT website (now archived). Here:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search/result/?q=harlands

These were some of the undertakings that Harland’s (and their associates) had to agree to:

Extended provision for cancellation during the minimum term where the consumer:

Relocates 15 miles from a club,

Suffers from an illness, injury or medical condition which prevents exercise for three months,

Is made redundant or loses their livelihood,

Becomes pregnant.

Extended provision for cancellation in the minimum term where services or facilities are not provided or fall below the standard reasonably expected.

Extended provision for consumers to suspend their membership for temporary illness or injury and improved clarity of the implications of a membership ‘freeze’ on the minimum term.

Ceased using and recommending minimum terms of over 12 months.

Existing contracts will be not enforced

They were also TOLD to STOP using the contracts that contained terms in them that were UNFAIR...

Guess what - they carried on using them...

This is how you can catch them out with a bit of good wording in a letter to them.

I don't know the full in's and out's of your dealings with Harland’s/CRS but if they are relying on their contract to impose charges/fees etc.

- go through it with a fine tooth comb and see if any of the terns are UNFAIR.

..if they are chances are you can get all of this overturned and owe them nothing if the contract terms are UNFAIR...

If you can give me any background on this...I would be happy to help as much as I can.

Best,

Muldy

Hi Muldy,

It would be better if you posted the result of your case on your own thread so it's there for folk to see how your case ended.

The old thread is here - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?299840-Ongoing-saga-with-CRS-now-threatening-court-action!!&p=3347910&viewfull=1#post3347910

posts moved to existing thread