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Kingshill has served court proceedings on me for a debt. I am defending it robustly but they have never supplied me with any documents saying they have this debt nor statements asked for under your template letters. Has anyone else been taken to court by them? If so how did it all go?

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i not to sure on this, but i would correspond to the court saying that you have asked for proof of ownership of the debt. If you had that you would deal of creditor/dca on this matter. The creditor/dca have not provided this details to you. But i know if the matter goes to court the dca/creditor have to show proof at that stage

 

this imo would seem a reasonable request.

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Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

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To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

If my advise helps click here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/reputation.php?p=366404

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When you say you have been served with Court papers, are you saying that you

have received a writ from the Court with the reason for the summons, and when

and where the case will be heard, or is it just a threat of court action from Cabot?

IF the former, what are you being charged with on the Court papers.

 

It appears to me that from what you have said that who owns the debt may still be

in dispute if Cabot have not responded to your queries. That being said, if Cabot

have bought the debt, there is really very little that they can provide other than

proof that they have bought the debt.

 

Have you written to them saying that you do not acknowledge the debt? And

have they sent you any proof that they do own it?

Once those queries have been cleared up, the picture should become clearer.

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Yes they have issued a summons. No I have not received the letter of assignation nor the statements and have now lodged a complaint with OFT. They sent a letter (30 days exactly after they took recorded delivery of my template letter) saying they would get the required info but it would take some time. I am also inclined to write to the Court Manager and outline all this and why I believe this action has been taken to frighten me (which I think it is). I am seriously ill which is why I got into debt and have been trying to sort things out. Have settled amicably with others and this one just exchanged a few letters and then this court action. It's all a bit strange really. Any advice, thoughts etc would be welcome although I intend taking on a lawyer for this as qualify for legal aid. Even thugh I am ill I won't back off from the court. I also will be seeking disclosure on how much they paid for the debt as they are after £10,000 even though the credit card co did offer to settle for £1500 but at the time I couldnt find the money. And their costs are stacking up - £250 plus £100 to move it to my local court. It really doesn't make any sense at all.

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Thanks for that Rhia. The reason for the summons would have helped though.

I imagine that you have still to complete the Court form and return it?

 

It's my understanding that where an issue is in dispute [in this case, do Cabot own

the debt] that no further action can be taken until that dispute is settled.

Unless of course, Cabot are taking you to Court to prove that they are the legal

owners?

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It seems strange if they are doing this to prove they own it as I have merely asked them for the SAR to establish this which they haven't provided. I have done everything by the book and with other creditors who, as I said, have all settled with a resonable amount of correspondence.

I have returned court papers and what I think is a comprehensive and straightforward defence and am counterclaiming for my excesss charges to be refunded. The stress has upset me greatly and I feel inclined to claim damages - there must be something under the Human Rights Act.

If they have paid 10-12p in the pound for this debt and have to disclose that under the judge's ruling they surely know it won't reflect well on them. I just think it's very odd. perhaps someone was having a very bad day and decided to take it out on me without considering the options sensibly. Over to you...

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Rhia, I was only surmising on the reason that Cabot /Kingshill are taking you to Court. You should know why they are taking you to Court as it is recorded on

the summons. Is it because they are suing you for the debt?

 

What they paid for the debt is not relevant in Law-you are liable for the whole

amount that you owed to the c/card company. What Cabot cannot do is add on

fees for collecting the debt, but they may be able to claim for their Court fees.

Also, whether there are unlawful charges included in the amount is not the

concern of this Court as this has yet to be proven by you. What you must do is

send an SAR to the credit card company to establish how much those charges

amount to. You can then reclaim them from that company, but not from Cabot.

When you have finally got the charges agreed, then that amount will either be sent to you, or they will contact Cabot to reduce the debt.

 

If indeed they are claiming that you owe them the credit card debt, I am not sure

that they can, since who owns the debt is stiill in dispute isn't it?

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Yes they have yet to prove that they "own" the debt. I will SAR the credit card company though and see what the charges are.

I did read elsehwere that the court will make the company disclose what they bought the debt for...assuming they can prove ownership.

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Not sure if you are understanding perhaps what Cabot are possibly up to.

You are arguing that they have to prove the debt before you will come to sort

of financial agreement with them. So as far as you are concerned, you are in dispute with them. Until the dispute is resolved, they can take no action over the debt.

 

However, if they are taking you to Court because, they say, you are not paying

them, then they are applying to the Court to obtain a Court Order against you

to pay the debt. Completely ignoring the fact that you are in dispute with them.

[Please forget the figure that they paid for the debt- it has no bearing on the case-

you are legally bound to pay the full amount of the debt that you owed the credit card company-the only advantage you would gain is knowing what they paid and if

your financial situation has improved, you may be able to offer them a much smaller lump sum now, than paying off the whole amount over many years].

 

Once they get the judgement against you, they have you where they want you.

Therefore, you should be appealing to the Court on the ground that you are in

dispute with them over who owns the loan, and until that is resolved they cannot

take you to Court-you will need to show them correspondence you have had with

Cabot over their inability to prove ownership. And then carry on to say that if

they can provide proof, you will be more than happy, without the need to attend Court to sort out a payment regime with them [you may need to have your hands

behind your back with your fingers crossed when you say this. lol] but you get the

picture. ie You are not objecting to paying, you just want to ensure that they are

the people you should be payiing. [incidentally, didn't your credit card company

inform you that they had sold on the debt, and to who?].

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LFI - sorry to butt in here, you are doing all is needed but Rhia has suggested she applied for an S.A.R to Cabot - should that not be CCA request to establish ownership? also, I'm getting hung up about these company names and the distribution of title/Data Protection Act info etc.

 

Rhia - can you establish from the paperwork you have received who EXACTLY wrote to you saying they bought the debt ( which company name in full ?). Who registered any defaults Kingshill No1 Ltd? and which company name issued the summons?

 

Sorry LFI - I'll let you carry on and I'll monitor this thread. TA - sarah

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No problems Andrew-two heads are better than one.

 

What I was hoping to establish was if they were taking Rhia to Court for non

payment, when their was a dispute in force as to who owned it- the credit card company, or Cabot/kingshill. I was under the impression that until that had

been established, no other legal claim can be instituted and therefore their case

was doomed if they were chasing for the money.

I understand that a cca request does not entitle the debtor to be shown the

deed of assignment, but a Court case would be a means of Cabot proving

ownership, but possibly involving Rhia in a ccj at the same time. So I feel that

the reason for the summons could be important in fighting her corner.

 

I note your concern about who is who between Cabot and Kingshill. Could be

a possible case of deceit under fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence if

you look at section 25 [2][d] of the CCA 1974?

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I noticed from another poster tbern I think, that Kingshill No1 Ltd seem to be the company buying the debt and using Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd to ' manage' the account, ie; collecting it and giving out the punishments, but it is not always clear because they seem to write all corresponence in the Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd name even when they have bought the debt. It may be a new tactic of theirs to explicitly outline who bought the debt and who is managing it for them as I have never seen a letter like that from cabot before or maybe they have cottoned on to what we have going on here.

Either way neither company has at any time written to request permission to process data and I gather (& please correct me if I am wrong ) they are supposed to do that under the Data Protection Act and they certainly should not pass the data from one company to the other which ever way they decide to buy and manage the debt with the debtor.

 

I am trying to get this CCA business with Zootscoot and what is EXACTLY allowed under it for the debtor to receive as there certainly is confusion about it and I have been telling people to expect a Deed of Assignment and a copy of the original agreement from a CCA request. I don't want to think everyone is having to go to court just to establish who owns the debt. I think, and I am only telling people what I have learned here on site, that we need a laymans guide to what to expect as I know there are conflicting thoughts and posts about this. I want everyone to be totally sure about this. I think this is where the guidance ought to start.

 

 

... and just have a look at this one http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/38340-dca-2.html

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All the correspondence has come from Cabot. I have no letter of assignment. I have asked them for this and statements of account. They received it (post office tracking)and then exactly 30 days later sent a letter saying they would supply this info but it could take eight weeks. So therefore they have no letter of assignment. I have never disputed that I owe the credit car company something but again am disputing the total due to excess charges/ penalty charges.

The only time I heard of Kingshill was on the court papers. I have had no correspondence whatever from them apart from this. I have filed my defence and have asked for the case to be moved locally and have said I am agreeable to settling out of court.

I am due to see a specialist solicitor over the next week and we have another month to try and reach a settlement out of court. I will report them to OFT. Any comments guys?

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I noticed from another poster tbern I think, that Kingshill No1 Ltd seem to be the company buying the debt and using Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd to ' manage' the account, ie; collecting it and giving out the punishments, but it is not always clear because they seem to write all corresponence in the Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd name even when they have bought the debt. It may be a new tactic of theirs to explicitly outline who bought the debt and who is managing it for them as I have never seen a letter like that from cabot before or maybe they have cottoned on to what we have going on here.

Either way neither company has at any time written to request permission to process data and I gather (& please correct me if I am wrong ) they are supposed to do that under the Data Protection Act and they certainly should not pass the data from one company to the other which ever way they decide to buy and manage the debt with the debtor.

 

I am trying to get this CCA business with Zootscoot and what is EXACTLY allowed under it for the debtor to receive as there certainly is confusion about it and I have been telling people to expect a Deed of Assignment and a copy of the original agreement from a CCA request. I don't want to think everyone is having to go to court just to establish who owns the debt. I think, and I am only telling people what I have learned here on site, that we need a laymans guide to what to expect as I know there are conflicting thoughts and posts about this. I want everyone to be totally sure about this. I think this is where the guidance ought to start.

 

 

... and just have a look at this one http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/38340-dca-2.html

 

For information.

 

Kingshill no,1 and cabot finance are the same company:

 

Type cabot finance into the free search of companies house and it will come up with CABOT FINANCE, FORMERLY KNOWN AS KINGSHILL NO 1.

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For information.

 

Kingshill no,1 and cabot finance are the same company:

 

Type cabot finance into the free search of companies house and it will come up with CABOT FINANCE, FORMERLY KNOWN AS KINGSHILL NO 1.

 

I'll try and jump in before Andrew1 or Debt Mountain see this lol

 

Cabot have set up various Limited companies such as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited and Kings Hill No.1 Ltd. However, as these are limited companies and not trading names there are legally seperate companies.

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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For information.

 

Kingshill no,1 and cabot finance are the same company:

 

Type cabot finance into the free search of companies house and it will come up with CABOT FINANCE, FORMERLY KNOWN AS KINGSHILL NO 1.

 

 

You've lost me on this - typed into companies house and there's no company called Cabot Finance. Anyway, what you need to understand is that ALL cabot companies are seperate Limited Liability Companies falling under the Cabot Financial Holdings Group Ltd. Kingshill No1 Limited being one of them. If you are suing 'Cabot' you have to look precisely at the names of the companies Cabot have written to you on and it appears Kingshill No1 Ltd is the one they are now saying actually buy the debts and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd are being used as a management company to whom all correspondence is addressed and by whom they send their threatening letters and phone calls from. Kingshill No1 Ltd register the Defaults but they invariably haven't written and mentioned Kingshill No 1 Ltd, they just send out Cabot letters. It is not enough to just refer to them as 'Cabot' other than when talking generally, the court will throw your claim out if you get the company name wrong and you'll have wasted valuable time and money. Just be careful and think this one through. There are Data Protection Act questions about the passing of Data without your permission from one company to another for example. I have listed all their companies on here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/11229-cabot-financial-6.html post 115 just check your paperwork out.

 

 

EDIT: tbern ! - You cheeky devil, you did too! but thanks I like your style !!

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Curiouser and curioser- if you look at this website-

npil - asset warehousing, corporate and portfolio acquisitions you will find that this company bought

Cabot financial back in April for £275 million. Apparently they want to expand into Europe. Hopefully the continentals aren't as generous to their infringements as we

are over here.

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Curiouser and curioser- if you look at this website-

npil - asset warehousing, corporate and portfolio acquisitions you will find that this company bought

Cabot financial back in April for £275 million. Apparently they want to expand into Europe. Hopefully the continentals aren't as generous to their infringements as we

are over here.

 

 

£275 mill for buying a company that will lose it's license! :D

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I have kept all letters etc so am going to go through the entire file again and double check just who has taken over this debt. I can't imagine that this confusion is anything other than deliberate in order to discourage us fighting back.

In the meantime do you (all or nay of you) think it a sound idea to write to the court as suggested above?

I'll keep checking in

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can this help anyone?

 

Company Details

 

The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time

Name & Registered Office:

KINGS HILL (NO. 4) LIMITED

10 KINGS HILL AVENUE

KINGS HILL

WEST MALLING

KENT ME19 4LT

Company No. 03514385

 

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 20/02/1998

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

 

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

9999 - Dormant Company

 

Accounting Reference Date: 31/10

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/10/2005 (DORMANT)

Next Accounts Due: 31/08/2007

Last Return Made Up To: 20/02/2006

Next Return Due: 20/03/2007

 

Last Members List: 20/02/2006

 

Previous Names:

Date of change

Previous Name

21/06/2006

CABOT FINANCIAL LIMITED

12/03/1999

COMMERCIAL FINANCIAL SERVICES (EUROPE) LIMITED

Branch Details

There are no branches associated with this company.

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

System Requirements

 

Return to search page

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 20/02/1998

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

 

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

9999 - Dormant Company

 

Accounting Reference Date: 31/10

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/10/2005 (DORMANT)

Next Accounts Due: 31/08/2007

Last Return Made Up To: 20/02/2006

Next Return Due: 20/03/2007

 

Last Members List: 20/02/2006

 

Previous Names:

Date of change

Previous Name

12/03/1999

COMMERCIAL FINANCIAL SERVICES (UK) LIMITED

Branch Details

There are no branches associated with this company.

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

System Requirements

 

Return to search page

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 19/09/1997

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

 

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

6523 - Other financial intermediation

 

Accounting Reference Date: 31/10

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/10/2005 (FULL)

Next Accounts Due: 31/08/2007

Last Return Made Up To: 19/09/2006

Next Return Due: 17/10/2007

 

Last Members List: 19/09/2006

 

Previous Names:

Date of change

Previous Name

12/03/1999

CFS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED

Branch Details

There are no branches associated with this company.

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

System Requirements

 

Return to search page

Saxon

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Thanks Saxon, I think this Kingshill No 4 Ltd is a Dormant Company - or was at the last accounting period. Although it does state ' Active' on the status HAS ANYONE had any correspondence from NO4?

 

Kingshill No1 is the one that they have used for defaults - they have 2 & 3 too!

 

However, they have been purchased ( Cabot Group) by a Japanese company in April so these changes are likely to appear and we need to be vigilant as to which company gets used for what especially if suing them.

 

Sarah

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Hi Andrew1, I have a default through them, no corrospondance at all, just thought they were one and the same as Cabot, however I did find that a company bought all the cabot Ltd companies, so as a wild thought could we not attack them as they own all the cabots, and therefore in theory the buck should be with them to manage or have some sort of control of what they own.

 

I know what I mean, I hope you get the gist of it.

Saxon

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Hi Andrew1, I have a default through them, no corrospondance at all, just thought they were one and the same as Cabot, however I did find that a company bought all the cabot Ltd companies, so as a wild thought could we not attack them as they own all the cabots, and therefore in theory the buck should be with them to manage or have some sort of control of what they own.

 

I know what I mean, I hope you get the gist of it.

 

 

Sounds a nice idea, the Japanese might wonder what's hit them ! However, if you check out what I have pointed out before in so far as who has actually registered the Default NO1 / No2 - Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd and who is managing the accounts I think we have far more to hit Cabot as a whole with as tbern has done and try to get their license revoked I feel it will have a better effect. Quite a lot of the companies listed in the group are dormant but I shouldn't be suprised if we don't see a few woken up as a result of the T/O. Just watch who you issue proceedings against and make sure it's the right company. Suing the holding company won't get you far.

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OK. I have checked my correspondence and it's all from Cabot. The only mention of Kingshill is a letter which says it was in a byundle of debts sold to Kingshill. That's all it says. It does not say the debt is owed to Kingshill and neither has there been any correspondence from them.

I have checked with companies house and there are at least 10 different companies trading from this address in Kent. Most are variants on Cabot but there are also Kingshill 1, 2&3 with 2 &3 being dormant.

They are each different companies submitting different accounts. So what does this all mean with regard to my issue with Cabot Financial (Europe)?

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