Hi,

Hoping I can get some advice on my current JSA claim to see if it is worth contesting.

I have recently applied for JSA and have received a letter stating that as I have not paid sufficient class 1 contributions they are unable to pay me any allowance.

I have worked more or less for the past 17 years since leaving school (more or less because I've gone through several redundancies), I was made redundant in 2010 and due to relocation and then illness i ended up being off work for 18 months, I managed to live off savings for a year and also made a successful claim for JSA for 6 months (early 2011) until I managed to find employment in the new area we had moved to.

Since then I was employed from Mar 2012 - Feb 2013 (redundancy.....again), tried to make a claim but refused for not having enough NI contributions then worked again from May 13 - Nov 13, again tried to make a claim and was refused for the same reason, I had contested this and it appeared the 18 months I had off was the cause because they were using the 2011 & 2012 tax years as the lady advised they use the last 2 calendar years (not tax years) to assess the claim.

I waited until now to reclaim and again they have refused based on not making enough class 1 NI contributions for years ending 2011 & 2012, this time citing the tax year.

How is it that despite having worked full time and paid tax and NI for the last 18 months I am still not eligible for JSA? I know of habitual claimants who seem to have 6 months working and 6 months claiming without issue whereas I need to claim for the second time in 17 years and constantly refused. I don't want to be on benefits and would much rather work but until a job comes up I could do with the pitiful amount they provide as it would currently make the difference between paying all bills or falling into arrears.

I can't claim Income based as my partner works full time on £26k pa but living off one wage with our current outgoings is impossible, we have even bought a house as that will reduce our outgoings compared to renting but that wont complete until May / June, all savings have been used so there's no risk of exceeding that threshold.

They have assessed my claim based on tax years ending April 2011 & April 2012 but as mentioned before the 2011 year was where I was unable to work and this seems to be effecting me despite working full time through 2012 and most of 2013. Is there any way I can get them to acknowledge the work and contribution made through 2012 and 2013 rather than being penalised for events 3 years ago, ironically at the start of 2011 I received a £2,500 tax rebate.

Seems the whole benefits system is geared towards those who have no intention of contributing and fleecing it while I'm actually needing it (hopefully for a short period) yet I feel I'm the one robbing the system I've probably paid tens of thousands into.

Sorry for the long winded rant but better on here than some poor lady in the benefits office, if anyone can offer any advice on where I stand it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sorry but those are the rules when I was unemployed March 2012 DESPITE at that time having worked and paid tax and NI for 41 years I was refused contribution based JSA as I didn't work or claim NI credits from July 2009 until Feb 2011 due to the fact that first I had a large redundancy package and then proceeds from my London flat sale what I didn't do was sign on for NI credits only as I knew I had paid in enough to get my pension and I had too much savings to actually get any money.

Yeah it sucks but there is nothing you can do about it, are you signing on for NI credits only (you will need to for your future pension and to stop this happening again a couple of years down the line)

You have 'only' worked for 17 years what do you think I thought upon realising I had paid enough NI to qualify for my state pension (in 7 years time) but NOT enough to get JSA and yes like you having paid thousands into the system by way of NI and tax

Go on to the benefits calculator and see if you and your partner can get any other benefits like working tax credits or income support, its your only choice I am afraid

thanks for the reply, had a feeling i'd be stuck with this one. Definately can't claim for anything else due to her income being above £25k, cant even get a council tax reduction. Typical of the government as it is, work and want to work and you get absolutely no help. Fail to speak the language or have absolutely no intention of getting a job and they'll throw everything they can at you plus some extra's. Part of me feels like saying my girlfriend has kicked me out and get a nice little second home and an income or I can play on my back problem which is medically recorded and get some DLA and mobility benefits but it drives me mad not working and I can't actually stoop that low even though I've been conned out of the money i've contributed over the years.

As for signing for NI contributions its not worth the time or effort, if it becomes an issue in future I can always pay the defecit in NI for when I've been out of work, only the second time i've needed to claim and hopefully I won't be in this situation again.

Well time to shred the rejection letter and send it back to the JSA office. Cheers for the help

Sorry cheeky I could not have any good news to give you it is really not fair at all I agree. I have just had my future pension statement I cant get my pension until I am 66 thats 6 more years then I was promised when I started work and for every FULL year I pay NI I can get £1.75 a week (yes decimal point is in the right place) extra pension and they wonder why us the stupid idiots who pay their share to this country get disillusioned.

£1.75pw isn't even good enough to class as an insult, but when there's clueless politicians out there sat on £200m fortunes (which is offshore avoiding tax) surrounded by their multi-millionaire classmates then we can't really expect them to be in touch with what it means to see a bill and have no idea how to pay it. I now will have an issue paying for car insurance and fuel which will effect my ability for job hunting and attending interviews. Well plan B it is then, forget English and train a 5 year old child to translate for me, the only issue is I'll need to go through the hassle of setting up several bank accounts to handle the amount that will subsequently be thrown in my direction. Just goes to show honesty and contributing to the 'system' only benefits the lazy.

But on a serious note is there any particular reason they are using the 2011 & 2012 tax years when surely it should be 2012 & 2013 years? I know that would probably mean they'd have to furnish me with the whopping £200pm or whatever it is now but think its ridiculous they're not using the most current tax periods and seem to be clinging to using the only year they can which renders me somehow ineligible.

:Benefit Years and National Insurance Contributions:

Starting on the first Sunday each January, a 'benefit year' is almost the same as a chronological year.

Eligibility for income replacement contribution flavoured benefits is decided by national insurance contributions paid/credited during the previous two complete tax years.

So a claim from 5 January 14 onwards uses the two tax years ended April 2013.

Margaret.

thanks for the reply, had a feeling i'd be stuck with this one. Definately can't claim for anything else due to her income being above £25k, cant even get a council tax reduction. Typical of the government as it is, work and want to work and you get absolutely no help. Fail to speak the language or have absolutely no intention of getting a job and they'll throw everything they can at you plus some extra's. Part of me feels like saying my girlfriend has kicked me out and get a nice little second home and an income or I can play on my back problem which is medically recorded and get some DLA and mobility benefits but it drives me mad not working and I can't actually stoop that low even though I've been conned out of the money i've contributed over the years.

As for signing for NI contributions its not worth the time or effort, if it becomes an issue in future I can always pay the defecit in NI for when I've been out of work, only the second time i've needed to claim and hopefully I won't be in this situation again.

 

Well time to shred the rejection letter and send it back to the JSA office. Cheers for the help

Just to clarify, benefit rules apply to all, equally, regardless of language ability or motivation.

You can try ESA, but you may get caught by contribution conditions there too, I'm afraid.

And yes it sucks, and I really do sympathise with you.

:Benefit Years and National Insurance Contributions:

 

Starting on the first Sunday each January, a 'benefit year' is almost the same as a chronological year.

 

Eligibility for income replacement contribution flavoured benefits is decided by national insurance contributions paid/credited during the previous two complete tax years.

 

So a claim from 5 January 14 onwards uses the two tax years ended April 2013.

Margaret.

Minor nitpick - ESA allows an extra year for the FCC only.

Thanks for the help, to clarify my understanding providing I made the claim after the 5th of Jan this year the tax years that should be taken into account are 2011-2012 & 2012-2013. I made the claim mid January and the letter cites they have used the tax years ending 2011 & 2012 and it is the 2011 year which is affecting me.

And my frustration comes from working 10 years in financial services and have seen first hand the amount some people were claiming despite having minimal intention to work, I have also been in the situation if having a young child translate for someone who was receiving almost £2k pm in a variety of benefits and had never worked in the uk. As mentioned before I'm hoping to claim for a minimal time as I am actively looking for work but a successful claim is the difference between keeping my head above water so to speak and be able to run my car which is essential for interviews as at times I have to go around the country to attend, they never seem to be a local bus ride away

Thanks for the help, to clarify my understanding providing I made the claim after the 5th of Jan this year the tax years that should be taken into account are 2011-2012 & 2012-2013. I made the claim mid January and the letter cites they have used the tax years ending 2011 & 2012 and it is the 2011 year which is affecting me.

 

And my frustration comes from working 10 years in financial services and have seen first hand the amount some people were claiming despite having minimal intention to work, I have also been in the situation if having a young child translate for someone who was receiving almost £2k pm in a variety of benefits and had never worked in the uk. As mentioned before I'm hoping to claim for a minimal time as I am actively looking for work but a successful claim is the difference between keeping my head above water so to speak and be able to run my car which is essential for interviews as at times I have to go around the country to attend, they never seem to be a local bus ride away

I'm not an expert on linking rules or JSA, but it may be that your claim in November 2013 is causing the problem. Periods of unemployment link with each other if claims are made within (I think) 12 weeks of each other. Though you may not have been paid any benefit, if your claim was opened and you qualified for your NI conts to be paid for the period the claim was open, even though you may have stopped signing as soon as you realised you weren't going to be paid benefit - your current claim may link back to your November claim for the purpose of assessing contribution years.

If you paid enough contributions in the years ending april 2012 and 2013, then close down your current claim, wait over 12 weeks and then reclaim and you should then qualify for your six months of cont based JSA.

Anyone, if I've got this wrong, please feel free to correct me, it's not exactly my area of expertise.

Thanks I think I'm best speaking to the benefits office directly on how they based the claim and omitted the most recent completed tax year, I'd doubt I'll be out of work for 12 weeks to initiate a new claim, if I am I think I'll be selling a kidney on eBay. As it stands if I have to go for an interview out of town there is no way I could afford to attend as I've had to use all savings for the past few months so the benefit office manipulating the tax years used will eventually effect my ability to find work. Vicious circle at the moment, moral of the story don't come out of work unless your dead. Good to see the tens of thousands I've contributed to the system are helping me out on the rare occasion I need support.

When they disallow a claim saying you have not paid enough NI contributions during the tax year.. what would be "enough" [out of the 52 weeks] to make us eligible for contribution-based JSA?

Voluntary NI payments is just above £10pw so to get HB and JSA, for some it would pay off to top up the NI payments to cover the tax year or the minimum number of weeks required.

[email protected] HMRC NI Contribution Office: they send you a statement about your contributions and the amount you need to pay to top up if you wish.

JSA is £71.70pw. HB can be £200pw for one person, over 35, one-bed flat. For the whole tax year it is about £630 to pay your NI so you will soon see the return if you top up.

Is it they pay CB-JSA for up to 12 months? Just realized HB is an income-based benefit so receiving CB-JSA won't make you eligible for HB?

It would only prove what OP says: you get more if you contribute less.

Knowledge of English will effect your entitlement: all nationalities have to pass the improved habitual residency test as no benefits for the first three months in the UK even if British but lived abroad for a significant period. Test contains an English test element. Allegedly.

Thanks I think I'm best speaking to the benefits office directly on how they based the claim and omitted the most recent completed tax year, I'd doubt I'll be out of work for 12 weeks to initiate a new claim, if I am I think I'll be selling a kidney on eBay. As it stands if I have to go for an interview out of town there is no way I could afford to attend as I've had to use all savings for the past few months so the benefit office manipulating the tax years used will eventually effect my ability to find work. Vicious circle at the moment, moral of the story don't come out of work unless your dead. Good to see the tens of thousands I've contributed to the system are helping me out on the rare occasion I need support.

I think Estellyn is right - you've been caught by 13 week linking rules. Now, you don't need to wait 13 weeks from today to make a new claim, just 13 weeks from the end date of your previous claim.

And note that the benefit office is not "manipulating the rules" in an effort to deny payment to you personally. They're applying the rules in the same way they do for everyone else.

Irony stipulates that the benefits office for people struggling financially have to phone a premium rate number to speak with them. Certainly is an eye opener. Anyone needing a kidney will give a good price.

There are free phones in the Jobcentre to call BDC. Will walk to local JCP rather than top up my phone to make a call.

Unfortunately I'm out in the sticks so walking to the job centre isn't really an option and my time is better spent job hunting and writing application letters before my phone gets cut off at the end of the month when I can't pay the bill and default on my contract, which then effects my prospects further as I tend to work in roles where a credit check is mandatory and any black marks result in retraction of job offers. Very vicious circle at the moment, maybe if I had claimed for dla when I was unable to work due to back problems rather than use my savings it wouldn't be an issue. Series of events has truly changed my opinion on the term honesty is the best policy because trying to do the right thing and not rely on the system has led to this series of events. Shame on me for trying to support myself when I could.

Well hopefully I'll be back working soon and make my tax contributions so the lazy and deceitful don't have any issues funding their next 60" TV upgrade, Jeremy Kyle just isn't as good on a 52" plasma.

Minor nitpick - ESA allows an extra year for the FCC only.

**Margaret** nitpicked my nitpick, and it turns out she is correct. The rules have changed and only the last two years are allowed for the FCC. Mea Culpa

 

Well hopefully I'll be back working soon and make my tax contributions so the lazy and deceitful don't have any issues funding their next 60" TV upgrade, Jeremy Kyle just isn't as good on a 52" plasma.

I understand that you're frustrated, but please stop this. Most benefit claimants are as honest and industrious as you are.

Within 30 days of the decision date [JSA disallowance] OP can ask the DWP to reconsider their decision.

So what is to stop anyone to top up their NI contributions to fully cover the two-relevant tax years and attaching proof of payment ask for the decision to be reconsidered?

We not talking 2 days of work and 2 years of Jeremy Kyle watching so the OP could calculate how much JSA he would get during [is it] 6 months and how much he needs to pay in to top up NI.

Last month I made an online request to receive my NI contribution statement 2008-2013 and got the letter within 2 weeks. It states how much I would need to pay in for each tax year [to be eligible for state pension] and within what period.

Within 30 days of the decision date [JSA disallowance] OP can ask the DWP to reconsider their decision.

 

So what is to stop anyone to top up their NI contributions to fully cover the two-relevant tax years and attaching proof of payment ask for the decision to be reconsidered?

 

Voluntary contributions (Class 3, I think) don't count towards JSA (or ESA) entitlement. They only count towards Retirement Pension.

I understand that you're frustrated, but please stop this. Most benefit claimants are as honest and industrious as you are.

Yes, a result of the government and right wing media propaganda - encouraging the feeling in benefit claimants or potential or failed benefit claimants, that everyone is somehow better off than them, and somehow everyone else is scheming the system.

Just to bring a little reality here - as a couple who claim benefits due to disability, we have considerably less household income than the equivalent of post tax 25K. And many are much worse off than us.

Yes, Cheekywink, you are in a difficult situation - I know, I've been there. But this is not a conspiracy against you, or a system designed for immigrants and layabouts. It is a safety net, which limits contribution based assistance and limits income based assistance even more - as you have found out.

Sadly many are feeling badly treated by the benefits system - oddly enough though, they assume everyone else is being treated great. This is simply not true.

Apologies, it's solely borne from frustration, and I'm not basing my opinion on propaganda or rumour but from what I've seen over a number of years first hand. I appreciate the vast majority of claimants are genuine. It's just hugely annoying that I know I have paid more than my fair share into the system, I used my savings when I could have easily claimed a benefit I've even dropped from £30k pa manager roles to £13k pa call centre hell holes to ensure I pay my way when the financial services collapsed and I went from one redundancy to another. It just seems that the one time I need some payback for my contribution I'm being blocked for what I thought before was doing the right thing and using savings and as a result of not claiming what I know is a meagre amount but it has the potential to hinder immediate job opportunities as my travel ability is reducing and potentially future opportunities if any of my credit falls behind and effects my rating. I'll try phoning the benefits office again tomorrow (during Jeremy Kyle as likely to be quieter....joke don't shoot me and see what they say first hand. I'm just at a point for either laughing or crying and I'm not one to reach for tissues so excessive sarcasm is keeping my frustration at bay. Thanks for all the help it is appreciated.

Apologies, it's solely borne from frustration, and I'm not basing my opinion on propaganda or rumour but from what I've seen over a number of years first hand. I appreciate the vast majority of claimants are genuine. It's just hugely annoying that I know I have paid more than my fair share into the system, I used my savings when I could have easily claimed a benefit I've even dropped from £30k pa manager roles to £13k pa call centre hell holes to ensure I pay my way when the financial services collapsed and I went from one redundancy to another. It just seems that the one time I need some payback for my contribution I'm being blocked for what I thought before was doing the right thing and using savings and as a result of not claiming what I know is a meagre amount but it has the potential to hinder immediate job opportunities as my travel ability is reducing and potentially future opportunities if any of my credit falls behind and effects my rating. I'll try phoning the benefits office again tomorrow (during Jeremy Kyle as likely to be quieter....joke don't shoot me and see what they say first hand. I'm just at a point for either laughing or crying and I'm not one to reach for tissues so excessive sarcasm is keeping my frustration at bay. Thanks for all the help it is appreciated.

I know how frustrating it can be, and really do sympathise with you. Losing that big chunk of income is a huge shock, and then finding out you'll get no help when you've spent years paying in feels like a slap in the face.

I have a University degree, but have done my fair share of agency work in factories (the worst was the glue factory), warehouses, cleaning when we fell on tougher times, and know how I felt that there wasn't more help out there.

Years on though and in an even worse situation, I do appreciate the safety net that means I have a warm home and food on the table and know now that the years I spent paying in is helping me - though to be honest, I'd rather be healthy and let others be helped by the tax and NI contributions now helping me.

Anyway, I wish you luck, and hope you find work soon and that your health improves. 9-10am is the quieter phone period - I don't think it's related to Jeremy Kyle though - can Jeremy Kyle fans use a phone?? Just kidding!!

If you can not bear the situation any longer and need some space: spareroom.com, easyroommate.com. Rent a room.

You need a written contract to get HB. No partner so eligible for IB-JSA. Some landlords will not care that you are DSS if you are articulate and look like you gonna pay the rent. One month deposit, one month rent is too much: there are better deals, just keep looking.

Local housing allowance may cover the rent. Mine does. Google LHA rates on the net. IB-JSA means eligible for HB so it would be easy life if it was not for the sanction regime fashionable past couple of years.

B b #24 ?????

Cheekywinks... Your not leaving your girlfriend..... are you?