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A Pre 2007 M+S Credit Card & Now Debt


Equinox1
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I wonder if someone can give me some advice.

 

In November last year I lost my job,

I had managed, up to that point to keep my head above water to a certain extent.

 

Now I am on JSA of £71.40 a week and I can no longer keep afloat.

 

I contacted Stepchange who told me to contact M&S and get a copy of the T&C's

and also the CCA agreement as I took this out in store with one of their reps in 2006.

 

I rang M&S and they said it would be sent out, it was not.

 

In December I rang again and asked for the documents. Still nothing.

 

This morning I received a default notice and

 

I rang M&S they said they are sending it out but that my account is now seriously in default.

 

I told them that I had repeatedly requested the CCA previously.

 

They have said it will be with me in the next seven days.

 

Stepchange have sent me a pack out for sending out letters offering to pay £1.00 as that is logically all I can afford to pay.

This i am in the process of doing.

The total value of the M&S debt is in excess of £10k

 

because this is a prior agreement taken out before 2007

and M&S have stated to me that there was no updated agreement,

how enforecable is this debt exactly?

 

I have had a look at some of the htreads on here

and I see that some of you have really been through a massive wringer with them challenging the legal veracity of these debts,

but has anybody actually come out of this the other side and that has been the end of it

i.e have they concluded that the debt is not valid and walked away writing the debt off?

 

Maybe I am in lala land with this regard I don't know.

My debt was not clocked up by riduculous spending but by legal fees.

I had a boundary dispute on at my home which ended up costing me well in excess of £35k.

The solicitors needed paying and although in the past I was really careful with this card,

I turned to using this card to pay the legal debts and it just flipping well spiralled.

 

I won my boundary dispute but now I have another problem

and that is they are now causing me sleepless nights worrying over this damn debt.

 

My home is up for sale and I will probably end up renting for a bit to be honest.

In reality though I just hope I can find a way out of this mire!!

 

Thanks in advance :-D

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Hello Equinox, and welcome to CAG! :-)

 

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time.

 

I don't know much about M&S agreements, but I'm sure you'll get advice soon. If you hit the triangle at the bottom of the post you can ask the site team to put M&S in the thread title. That will attract more people who can help you.

 

In answer to your question: Yes, you can sometimes get a creditor to admit the debt is unenforceable. I have done it. However, when I first joined CAG I thought I would write a letter asking for a copy of the agreement, and they would send it back. I would then agree it was enforceable and if not that would be the end of it. Oh dear! :oops: I had a lot to learn.

 

If they know it is unenforceable they'll go to any lengths to avoid your seeing it. They'll send cut and paste jobs, T&Cs, and you really have to fight hard to get the answer you want. What can also happen is that you will have to hold on for six years after you have stopped paying until it becomes statute barred. During this time you'll get chased by various DCAs so challenging agreements is not for the fainthearted.

 

I've had one complete write off, two admittances that the agreement is unenforceable, and others in a state of limbo - all quiet and I'm hoping it stays that way.

 

When you get the alleged agreement post it up, removing the personal details, and we can have a look at it. If you read as many M&S threads as possible you may find an agreement from around the same time as yours which would be a good start as you can see what advice was given about it.

 

DD

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So, I have written to them again today because they have not replied nor sent the CCA this has been going on since last November now. I got the Terms and Conditions today but nothing else.

 

I have said in the letter that I was informed they were having trouble locating the CCA, so I have told them I am no longer going to pay and said that they cannot chase me or make this a default debt etc.

 

If they cannot locate the CCA - then what?

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Was this originally a store card that was then later part of the unsolicited upgrade to credit card ?

 

You might want to have a look at the Santander v Diana Mayhew Judgment and other similar threads where this occurred.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17670803

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You know what I cannot remember.

 

I did have a store card for sure,

but then I moved house and it all got 'lost' somewhere in the mayhem of it all.

 

I asked them about the store card they said they haven't got anything listed under my old address.

 

There is the credit card for sure,

but they say they cannot find anything under the store card and now they are saying they cannot find the CCA either.

 

I have sent them today a recorded delivery letter enclosing the copies of the previous letters from November and December

and telling them they have 28 days in which to get it to me.

 

My only concern is what happens if they don;t get the CCA

 

can I legally say to them it's unenforceable?

 

Edited to add - no it was not it was taken out in 2006 and was not a transfer from a store to a credit card but just a credit card application.

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to clarity things

a creditor without a CCA can do everything bar enforce a court judgement.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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why did you not get costs out of the won case?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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oh and if this was a store sign up

 

i'd lay odds you have PPI.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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why did you not get costs out of the won case?

 

dx

 

I got some costs paid out of the case but not all of them.

If it had gone to Court then I would have been looking at another £30k on top of what I paid out.

 

I would only have got about 70 - 80% back in awarded costs.

 

The other side caved in,

 

my solicitor said that it was better to settle rather than go on,

 

so I took their advice and just did.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have an M&S credit card,

 

I asked the CCA to be sent to me last year,

but weirdly they told me they were having trouble locating it

and in all probability were unable to find it.

 

I then wrote and told them that I now wanted it.

 

Now this CCA agreement has turned up but the signature on it is not mine!!

 

Exactly where do I stand with this?

 

How can I have a CCA sent to me, with a signature that is not mine

contains no address

or any details

just a signature

and a written date

 

yet they want to enforce this debt

by using a two page doument with nothing more than a signature

which is not mine in which to try and enforce it?

 

Surely this cannot be right.

 

I am starting to wonder if they are clutching at straws

and have come up with something out of thin air in which to say here you go that will do!!

 

Well, actually it won't do because they told me in the first place that it was taken out in 2006

and they now were struggling to find the original agreement!!

 

Has anybody else had this?

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tell 'em so.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think it missing a prescribed term as well which is the amount of credit. It has no address on it or nothing just a signature. This is beyond mad, it is frankly stupid and surely they cannot enforce this without the correct paperwork?

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correct

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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two threads merged

 

please keep to one thread per debt

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Can you confirm that the signature is your name, but that you personally didnt sign this.. eg a "forgery" or the signature is someone elses name (signature) totally !

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The signature is a scrawl, but here is the odd thing, the date written in is my writing. The signature is similar, but not the same as the one that I have. I have two signatures, one for formal stuff, driving licenece bank card etc and then I have a scrawl type signature that I use which I 'squiggle' on documents such as say if I return an item back to a shop and they print out a return slip and get you to sign it, I just do a whizz signature and thats it.

 

On the day that this card is dated I remember being approached in M&S, I had returned something back to the shop and I got stopped by one of their staff members pushing their credit card. I told them I had a store card but that I had not used it in a long time and that I suspected it was now probably no longer in use. I know I had the store card on me, but I don;t recall much else.

 

The document they have sent to me has a date on it and a signature, but there is nothing else. It looks like a microfiche type copy that they have printed off and just stuck it in the post.

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If you believe this signature is NOT yours then you should let the creditor know.

 

You could also employ the services of a hand writing expert.. If it were me and I believed that something hinky had occurred then this would be my first step.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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