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I have been working out my budget sheets firstly for my own benefit

and second to prove that i really am skint to my creditors.

 

 

I have based my income on half of everything that comes in in joint names.

 

 

Problem is that when I do that and then put half the bills down i am already at a negative number.

 

 

Is this OK?

 

 

Also, is there a list anywhere of acceptable budget amounts for food etc?

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My partner earns more approx 50% higher total income, in fact my partner earns is the correct phrase! Should I skew the percentage as a proportion of income rather than 50/50? - Is that what common practice is? 100% of the debt in totally in my name.

 

with 2 dependent children I have: electricity £9, gas £6, water rates £7, council tax £3, food £50, clothing£1, telephone £2, school lunches £15, school uniform £2 on the list per week and an income figure of £90, which is half of the tax credit award (figures rounded / changed slightly to protect ID). There is no rent - housing benefit - and reduced council tax - full relief. There are other things such are internet and car expenses that are not on there.

 

Is there anything else I have missed / or anything that I should take off?

 

What I want to demonstrate is the truth. There is no money and the pittance i am paying them is all (more than) i can afford. Objective being to get them to back off a bit.

 

Is there a list/guidance anywhere of the levels of figures on a budget sheet that are acceptable, particularly the levels a court would see as correct and sensible in a CCJ hearing ( i am not there yet but i want a consistent story). I do not want to under or overstate things on paper. I know there is no money sloshing around, I just would like suggestions as to how to put than credibly on paper.

 

many thanks for reading

emptypot

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Is your partner prepared to help pay off your debts? why would she/why would i ask?Do you have any joint assets such as a house?Nothing joint totally unlinked financially and no assets to speak of

 

Are you going to suggest I go bankrupt?

 

Thought about it but what are the real benefits at this stage?

 

Then there is the £750 - that pays a lot of £1 pcm!!!

 

My current thinking is this:

Send them all a budget sheet that proves the pot is empty and keep paying token payments,

mainly for the benefit of the DJ if I end up the county court

- hence i want a credible budget sheet that will stand up in court;

 

 

CCA the lot - pre 2007 and see what comes back.

 

 

At that stage it may be possible that I can effectively write off a significant amount of the debt as unenforceable

- not holding my breath,

but worth a shot and given that we are at the real muppet end of the spectrum

- vanquis,

littlewoods,

aqua,

capital one,

barclaycard

- it is not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

Now, 8-12 months down the line IF it is all enforceable and IF my circumstances are still a mess

then I would tend to agree that a formal solution such as Bankruptcy would start to look sensible.

 

And if you weren't going to suggest bankruptcy then apologies,

but it is floating around my mind so I'd appreciate your input on my line of though

(and what were you going to suggest?).!!

 

Thoughts coughdrop / anyone else?

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cheers sequenci,

 

I appreciate the reply.

 

Any chance you could point me at list of acceptable items for a budget sheet and/or an acceptable range for the amounts?

 

I figure that if I pay something every month - £1 or whatever - and I have sent them all a credible budget then IF we end up in court the judge will (hopefully) be so angry at the waste of court time that s/he side with me at the payment terms stage.

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Here you go, there's some good info within this guide:

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/pdf/self-help-pack/step-2-working-out-your-personal-budget.pdf

 

Page 18 in particular.

 

Perfect!

 

Now if some muppet says 'where did you get your figures they are a joke' I can reply that they are in line with the amounts suggested in the national debtline guide.

 

(I am quite fond of the word muppet at the moment! what else would you call a company that tries to call you 21 times in 3 minutes!)

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There are guideline figures for some things - such as housekeeping, clothing etc. If you have a look on the NDL site there is a budget section. The actual budget it self is a two stage process.

1. You complete the full budget; and then

2. You transfer the figures into the smaller budget summary - so the creditors get a shorter version. It condenses the figures into sections such as housekeeping, travel, telephone, other spending. Whilst individual figures are not overly important, what is would be the totals for each of those sections.

 

Hope this helps!

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Hi Emptypot,

 

I wasn't intending suggesting anything until I knew the full picture - I apologise if the questions might have touched a bit of a nerve. The reason I asked about your partner is you/she might have moved in yesterday / not moved in / be getting married later today etc... Depending on the nature of your relationship, regardless of any of the above, sometimes partners will help, sometimes they won't. It obviously affects the speed you can pay things off and the options available to you. That's why I asked, and in answer to your question why would you ask? The answer is if you need to ask the question, you probably wouldn't. :-)

 

Reading through what you've suggested makes a lot of sense. Seq has suggested the National Debtline budget information which is amongst the best out there. If you want to play around with some figures, try NEDCAB - you can complete their IE form and you're not committed to anything.

 

One final question if you don't mind - how many creditors are we talking about? Again, this may mean your plan is great, or it may mean that it's possibly not the best. TBH, it sounds as though you've a reasonable handle on things, but it's best to be thorough to ensure you get the best help.

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hi coughdrop,

 

YES - you know what you meant and i know what i mean! LOL. The more questions the better for me I want as many angles / insights as poss.

 

100% married, have been for many years, just kept finances 100% separate - in hindsight an excellent plan! It's not that I wouldnt ask her or that she would say no its purely pragmatic and 'legal' in the sense that if i dont have the resources to cover my liabilities then i am not going to mess up the rest of the family and drag them down financially with me - kids come first and all that. At the end of the day we still have an excellent credit rating in my wifes name as a family unit so my credit file can take a running jump - it will not stop us getting the best deals on utilities for example.

 

I now view our finances as two 'firewalled' limited companies really. In answer to your question creditors are:

littlewoods £7k

Vanquis £3.5k

Aqua (sav uk NOT Hx) £4k

Capital one £ 1k

Barclaycard 1.5k

 

- figures rounded / changed a bit. All taken out in 2004/5. So if (an if the size of a big thing) I could say 'see off' littlewoods and aqua or vanquis then tbh there isnt really much of an issue long term.

 

any help always appreciated.

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Reading through what you've suggested makes a lot of sense. Seq has suggested the National Debtline budget information

which is amongst the best out there. If you want to play around with some figures, try NEDCAB - you can complete

their IE form and you're not committed to anything.

 

 

Just concerned the amount of posts the Coughdrop has commented on and made NEDCAP references,

what is the reason behind this?

Also OP remember an I&E form is meant to be for your eyes only, a DCA has not right to have these,

only a Judge does, please be careful in whom you send them too, this can be clarified by

higher members other than myself.

 

 

Also remember ALL debts have a PRIORITY ones to a DCA is low priority, make sure that you get

all payments in the correct order ok.

 

 

The debts listed below tend to have a lot of penalty charges attached have you checked and reclaimed

them all yet? The list below from your list should be looked into whilst you wait for your CCA's to come back.

 

 

Vanquis,

Littlewoods,

aqua,

Capital One,

Barclaycard

You may owe less than you think so you now need to look in to this as well, Vanquis tend to charge ROP

and didn't let you know it has been charged, if so check all credit cards for this and reclaim them all.

Then there is all the late/over limit fee's too, So before you look at the end result get all the info first

this way you will know EXCACTLY what you actually owe.

 

 

MM

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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Also OP remember an I&E form is meant to be for your eyes only, a DCA has not right to have these,

only a Judge does, please be careful in whom you send them too, this can be clarified by

higher members other than myself.

 

Hi there.

 

it is standard, industry practice for a financial statement to be sent to creditors if you're looking to get reduced payments agreement and interest and charges frozen. It's the only way. The key reason is that a creditor will be able to see that:

a) the expenditure figures are reasonable, and within the industry guidelines

b) the offer of payment is fair

c) all creditors are treated in the same way - either with token payments or pro-rata payments.

 

Anyone who says a budget sheet should not be sent to a creditor/dca is mistaken, it won't help with decision making.

 

Hope this makes sense!

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Just concerned the amount of posts the Coughdrop has commented on and made NEDCAB references,

what is the reason behind this?

 

 

 

Because I'm trying to be helpful MM - you're too suspicious! :-D Seq will, I think, vouch that I'm a totally independent party here just trying to help, and with a bit more knowledge and expertise than my post count shows.

 

I've actually mentioned NEDCAB once on this thread, that's all, and it was ONLY in the context of running figures through their system to see what came out the other end. You can do that all day long with no commitment - if you're not familiar with it, go and have a look. It is simply a very good, self managed, DMP tool.

 

I may have mentioned NEDCAB elsewhere - it's won a shed load of awards at the end of the day, and these weren't for nothing. It is self managed though which does not suit everyone. I tailor my advice to the post, so if mentioned elsewhere then it was because I felt it right to; if I didn't feel it was right I wouldn't mention it - simple as. I've no connections with anyone I assure you if that's what was bothering you?

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Also OP remember an I&E form is meant to be for your eyes only, a DCA has not right to have these,

only a Judge does, please be careful in whom you send them too, this can be clarified by

higher members other than myself.

 

MM

 

Basically, if you want it accepted with charges, interest etc... frozen you do need to send it. What you state is true, only a judge can demand you provide this information, but you can and should provide it voluntarily. You will find that is the norm within the industry.

 

EDIT: Sorry Seq - just seen you beat me to that one! :lol:

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Appreciate all the help and feedback.

 

I must admit that my 'usual' stance MM would be not to send a budget. however, my finances are so pitiful at the moment that it is actually in my best interests to send the budgets and tell everyone exactly where i am at. A funny thing happens when you have nothing and finally admit it, you loose all fear, at least that it what has happened to me.

 

Basically they keep writing and saying pay up or else then pay up or else, then they write again and say pay up or else. After a while i have realised that there is no 'or else' beyond late payment markers and defaults on a 'file' that simply mean i cannot strike up a new relationship with one of these muppets for 6 years. I cannot stop them trashing that file, whatever I do therefore it is not a threat at all

 

So the only (mild) threat to my mind is s grumpy DJ if they take me to court (and given that i have no assets and no money they would be wasting time there). To mitigate that I will be as transparent as possible with them all and pay something every month, even if it is £1, until or unless they put me in a position where it becomes clear they have no paperwork. At that point they will be sent packing.

 

So my next step is as coughdrop says - cca them all

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Anyone who says a budget sheet should not be sent to a creditor/dca is mistaken, it won't help with decision making.

 

Hope this makes sense!

 

 

I am not the only one that states this either. The information that is contained may not reflect what that particular DCA/creditor needs to know, IF the OP decides to send it then it is their choice. It could be said that all they need to put is that they have other NON priority debts on the list but DO NOT have to list them to the requesting DCA/CREDITOR. This is the point of making it so that they can make a decision on what they SEE not what they think they KNOW. A DCA/CREDITOR has no legal right to have exact details, I agree with sequenci to a point that all have to be treated equally, but some may be more of a priority, I.E. very close to legal action, that need to be addressed quicker.

 

 

MM

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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Like I actually stated was correct I thank you for confirming that, Now lets help the OP

 

 

I understand you position very well, as have been there too in the past, even recently too, my point is/was that your current dilemma is in need of help so lets move on now.

 

 

Once all CCA's are in you know you will see if they are all enforceable, I am trying to help as have had a battle for 4.5 years with VANQUIS and finally won it yesterday, as seen in my post on the matter, if you wish I will refrain from replying to your call for help if you so desire? my post can be found here for your viewing http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?371916-Vanquis-and-Moorcr*p&p=4410297#post4410297

 

 

Even though the debt was tiny compared to others the fact I won in the end is what it all about, I will leave it to you if you wish me to post if not good luck.

 

MM

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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Like I actually stated was correct I thank you for confirming that, Now lets help the OP

 

 

I understand you position very well, as have been there too in the past, even recently too, my point is/was that your current dilemma is in need of help so lets move on now.

 

 

Once all CCA's are in you know you will see if they are all enforceable, I am trying to help as have had a battle for 4.5 years with VANQUIS and finally won it yesterday, as seen in my post on the matter, if you wish I will refrain from replying to your call for help if you so desire? my post can be found here for your viewing http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?371916-Vanquis-and-Moorcr*p&p=4410297#post4410297

 

 

Even though the debt was tiny compared to others the fact I won in the end is what it all about, I will leave it to you if you wish me to post if not good luck.

 

MM

 

Absolutely NOT. I welcome all help from all sources, especially those with experience of the same companies

 

I am so poor at the moment the ducks throw bread at me!

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I wont throw bread lol but my thoughts, I will continue to assist you then.

 

 

Now lets kick butt.

 

 

Lets start with Vanquis, The are then ones that's offer you a credit building card and sneak in that ROP listed earlier, can you look at any statements you may have and see if it is listed, If it is you MAY be able to activate it, if you can this means they will suspend all monies due and basically put it on hold for up to 2 years at a throw.

 

 

This is subject to you being able to fulfil the requirements needed to activate it. You should now contact them and ask to do so if it is indeed added to the account. This can be done with most of your debts, only if the ROP/PPI is included in the fees that are charged to you, can you please check and verify this for us, then come back to update the thread. The above method "could" be used if any of your debt have that PPI/ROP or whatever they call it now.

 

 

Just a bit of useless info for you, Total debts owed by me was 28k+ over 22 creditors, my success rate is a total of me paying out in actual cash was a measly £50-00 total this week for a VANQUIS debt lol, outstanding debt is now just a whopping £200-00 for tax fees lol total debts defended 22 debts "won" 22

 

 

MM

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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I am not the only one that states this either. MM

 

I appreciate that. But it's poor advice. The folks who have posted that up historically are likely not to be qualified debt counsellors. The general principle is that all priorities (e.g. mortgages/rent/council tax/fuel/court fines etc) would need to get sorted first, and then whatever is left over is then offered to non-priority creditors - either via token or pro-rata payments.

 

A creditor is only likely to accept a lower payment and will consider freezing interest and charges once a suitable financial statement has been sent This is in the OFT guidleines, this is in the lending code.

 

What someone DOES NOT have to send, however is prove of income, bank statements etc.

 

The CCA/PPI route is another prong to the battle for sure.

 

NEDCAB is perfectly fine. It's a useful tool.

 

- Seq.

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