Hi all,

I couldn't find an appropriate forum to post this in.

A friend of mine set off a smoke alarm in a hotel a couple of weeks ago. She said (and I can verify this as I visited her room) that there were no no-smoking signs in the room (or any that she saw outside of the main lobby). Her room was booked and there was no mention of the room being non-smoking.

She apologised when the manager of the hotel arrived at her room and thought that was the end of it.

The room was booked for a wedding.

Now, the hotel are demanding a £100 'fine' and are saying that if she doesn't pay it, then they will bill the bride's credit card that they still have on file.

Can they actually do this?

Firstly, she signed nothing apart from the card that she filled her address on when she checked in - there was no mention of the room being non-smoking and no mention of a 'fine'.

Secondly, even if there is an implied contract (which I would guess there is), would this not be considered a breach of contract therefore rendering this 'fine' unenforcable as per the 'Dunlop v New Tyre Co' argument?

...or should she simply pay up as they have her over a barrel?

Hi Dogsey and a warm welcome to CAG

Has the hotel billed or is it from an external collection company?

Regards

Andy

The hotel itself.

Well all public places ...hotels restaurants pubs offices etc have a no smoking policy in place...would you need a sign to remind you of this?

By making a reservation you have agreed to adhere to their T&Cs of use check their website?

There doesn't actually seem to be a forum that this would slot comfortably into.. so I have moved you to General Legal issues

Not all hotels have a no smoking policy in place (Crown Plaza hotel chain to name just one). Hotel rooms are not deemed 'public places' - they are short-term lets - hence you can book 'smoking' or 'non-smoking' rooms in hotels where the choice is given. Given the fact that there were no signs to the contrary my friend believed that it was ok to smoke.

The room was a group booking and the money was paid to the bride before the day, so no terms and conditions were passed to her.

Even if they were, I'm of the opinion that the hotel has no authority to issue fines for a breach of contract.

This is the question that I'm asking.

Well question their invoice supported with what you state above and ask for a copy of the complaints procedures.If they charge it during this procees then you can request a sec70 chargeback

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/TB_CB_Manual.pdf

Sadly, they have not issued an invoice, and I quote "...would prefer to settle quickly over the phone" (this was received via the bride after they phoned her).

Well ask them to put it in writing because you intend to challenge it and ask for a copy of their complaints procedure:wink:

Fair play. Will do. Thank you. I'll let her know.

Hi all,

 

I couldn't find an appropriate forum to post this in.

 

A friend of mine set off a smoke alarm in a hotel a couple of weeks ago. She said (and I can verify this as I visited her room) that there were no no-smoking signs in the room (or any that she saw outside of the main lobby). Her room was booked and there was no mention of the room being non-smoking.

She apologised when the manager of the hotel arrived at her room and thought that was the end of it.

The room was booked for a wedding.

Now, the hotel are demanding a £100 'fine' and are saying that if she doesn't pay it, then they will bill the bride's credit card that they still have on file.

 

Can they actually do this?

 

Firstly, she signed nothing apart from the card that she filled her address on when she checked in - there was no mention of the room being non-smoking and no mention of a 'fine'.

Secondly, even if there is an implied contract (which I would guess there is), would this not be considered a breach of contract therefore rendering this 'fine' unenforcable as per the 'Dunlop v New Tyre Co' argument?

 

...or should she simply pay up as they have her over a barrel?

If the Hotel wishes to demand payment of £100 as a fine fornon-compliance with its terms and conditions as regards to any no smoking policy within it’s premises ;then the Hotel must establish that its terms and conditions on the same were provided to your friend before or upon his/her booking of reservationthereat, that there are clear no smokingsigns visible throughout the hotel and that a fine of £100 will be payable forany breach of its non-smoking policy.

Advise you friend to report her Card as lost, this willprevent any payments being processed therefrom. The Bank/creditor will issue your friend with a new card and allrelevant material required to use the same.

Kind regards

The Mould

That thought had crossed my mind as well. Sadly, after talking to my friend, she didn't pay on her card. The bride paid for everyone on hers and took the money from everyone seperately.

She is, of course, now away on an extended honeymoon and will probably not want to change her card...or even be bothered by it all I would imagine.

That thought had crossed my mind as well. Sadly, after talking to my friend, she didn't pay on her card. The bride paid for everyone on hers and took the money from everyone seperately.

She is, of course, now away on an extended honeymoon and will probably not want to change her card...or even be bothered by it all I would imagine.

She can still contact her bank and state that £100 was not authorised by her. Failing that, in order to bring and end to this matter, she should simply pay the Hotel the £100 to shut them up for good.

Kind regards

The Mould

charge back!

or cpa

dx

moved you to the smoking in hotels forum we have

lots of good info to read here in other threads

dx

The contract is between the hotel and the bride; one would imagine that the hotel provided terms and conditions at some point, which may well have included non-smoking rooms.

Indeed. That is most likely the case. However, does this not mean that they are attempting to issue a penalty for a breach of contract?

Is so, then surely the Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage & Motor Co Ltd et al case(s) is relevent?

It may be an unenforceable penalty, but you'd need to see the terms and conditions. On the other hand, they may try to claim that it's a fee for cleaning the room, which is the commonest thing we see. Without knowing exactly what they are claiming, and what's in the contract, it's all conjecture.

Fair enough. I'm going to write to them today (not phone).