Hi all

tonight I got a visit of the police

they didn't caution me or arrest me

they asked me for my version of events which occurred on the 15/8/2013

after I told them my side of the story they issued me with a penalty notice .

I can't understand how on somebody's say so with no witnesses what so ever they can come round

and fine you £90 and expect you to swallow it.

As I say I wasn't cautioned or arrested and on the actual ticket there are 2 boxes

which read street or custody and the street one has been ticked

which is strange as I was in the house at the time.

Hello there.

I'll move this to the legal forum where I hope you will get some advice.

Can you tell us a bit more about what you're alleged to have done please?

My best, HB

What did you do? Full details please.

You can refuse to take the FPN, but then it will be escalated to the courts. If they find you guilty, then you will receive a harsher penalty.

I was driving down a 40mph road with my partner and my daughter.

My daughter was in her seat in the back

my partner was in the front passenger seat

I had been driving back down the A30 in west London/ surrey borders

I noticed a car being driven by a lady with blond hair who seemed to be driving very close to cars rears.

I turned onto the clockhouse lane and this blue car followed

I went thru a set of lights and noticed this car tailgaiting me

I gestured in my rear view mirror to pull back as I had a child in the car as my two stickers on my rear window verifies

this had no effect so I put my hazard lights on again

this was met with driving very close

I tapped my brakes.

The speed I was doing now was no more than 20mph

I gradually pulled to a stop and got out of my car

I noticed the lady was wearing what looked like a nurses uniform

I asked her what are you playing at I have a child in my car and your driving up my arse can't you see my signs I then said stay the f*ck off my arse got back in my car and drove home.

today the police came round and issued me with the ticket saying the lady was In harassment alarm and distress.

I didn't think the police could give you a section 5 without them witnessing it.

Tailgateing is very annoying and dangerous. I'm no expert on this area of law, but if you admitted to the police that you got out of your car and told this lady to f-off, I am not surprised you ended up with a section 5.

but as I said without the police seeing it how can they give me a S5

Criminal law is not where I have the most expertise but I can't see a requirement like that in the Public Order Act (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/5).

There is a requirement that the threatening/abusive words or behaviour must be within the hearing/sight of a person likely to be caused harassment/alarm/distress ... but I don't see any requirement for the poice to be there.

If you didn't tell the police anything you would be in a better position.

But if you admitted to it

I don't see how you can contest the sec 5.

You can't go round telling strangers to f-off even if they are very bad drivers!

Can the police give you a public order act section 5 without cautioning you first.

Depends on what you mean by "caution" and by "Can the police give you a public order act section 5"!

Under S5(1), the police could issue you with a FPN for using abusive language for telling another driver to "F-off".

Is your belief that they had to "caution" you based on S5(4 )

where a constable would have to warn someone about their behaviour,

and the person continue such behaviour,

for the constable to then be able to arrest that person without a warrant?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64

I was under the impression for the police to give you a caution regarding your rights they have to tell you your under caution before they start speaking to you about the alleged offence.

Are you planning on refusing the FPN,

allowing them to take you to court

and then denying telling the other driver to "F-off"?

That would be a "high risk strategy":

If the police never arrested you,

then you didn't need to be cautioned.

You MIGHT then be able to challenge the "admissibility" of any comments you made to the police prior to caution.

However,

what are you going to do about the statement from the other driver

where they no doubt quote the language you used and the effect they state it had on them ?.

Happened to me once for a road rage.

My answer to the copper was: "I have no recollection of this incident"

They apologised and went.

I have just read the PACE act and I was supposed to be cautioned so because I wasn't that should invalidate the FPN is that correct.

Caution as in anything you say will be taken down blah blah blah

Its been a few years since I last properly looked at PACE.

As I recall, a caution would be required for a formal 'interview'.

I'm not sure that test would be met if the police simply asked for your side of the story and you volunteered the information about telling the lady to f-off.

You would need someone who knows more about criminal law to advise.

Wouldnt the fact that the OP admitted doing what they did, forgo any reason to have an interview or caution in the first place?

But in the pace act it says if the interviewee on answering questions give the interviewer reasons to believe that a criminal act has taken place then the interviewer should stop and issue a police caution this didn't happen.

It doesn't sound like you were interviewed under caution because there was no evidence of an offence being committed.

They just followed up a complaint.

Then you admitted telling the woman to f. off and they decided to issue a £90 fpn.

Easy figures for them.

Instead of going after hardcore criminals they prefer to target the easy pray and it still counts towards their stats.

You should have denied any involvement in this incident.

Experienced guys here might help you dispute the fpn if possible.

Thanks king.

1

Instead of going after hardcore criminals they prefer to target the easy pray and it still counts towards their stats.

You should have denied any involvement in this incident.

Lets not start that again.

A law was broken, and the OP admitted to doing it. Case closed.

If the OP was cautioned and he then lied about the incident, the OP could be in more trouble.

Whats done is done, and theres no getting out of it.

So what was I supposed to do renegade let this idiot keep driving up my chuff and hope that I don't have to slam on my brakes where she would have piled in the rear of me and quite possibly have injured my child do me a favour.

I completely understand why you reacted the way you did. But you still can't tell strangers to f-off !!!! That is seen as abusive language even if there is good reason to be annoyed

If someone told me to f off I in the slightest would not be bothered if I deserved it but I guess not everyone would see it that way.

Sadly thats always the case

I completely understand why you reacted the way you did. But you still can't tell strangers to f-off !!!! That is seen as abusive language even if there is good reason to be annoyed

I should be locked up every time I drive then.