Hello all!

I am new to the forums.

I must apologize for starting another Parking Eye thread but would appreciate some advice.

My wife, unfortunately, once whilst driving my car and secondly her own,

has received 2 charges of overstaying on a car park.

The car park in question is free of charge for 2 hours.

The letters have since come, asking for £60 initially and then £100, one to me and another to her.

I have followed advice on the forums to ignore,

however a letter has arrived notifying of 'letter before county court' and stating that I have 14 days etc.

Would the next approach be therefore to use the standard letter for POPLA/contract or,

given the two charges,

would the consensus be to pay up on the understanding that parking eye would be more likely to pursue us/me?

Thanks, slightly confused and annoyed.

Charlie

Hello Charlie, welcome to CAG.

The guys will be able to help you, I'm sure. I expect they'll be along later

My best, HB

Do these charges relate to a retail park ?

Hi there and thanks for replying, yes they do relate to a retail park.

Charlie

Ok I am at work at the moment but I will provide a response to Parking Eye from home this evening.

WHEN DEALING WITH PARKING EYE ALWAYS COPY IN THE LANDOWNER AS THEY HATE THIS APPROACH, THERFORE IT SHOULD BE DONE ON EVERY OCCASION, PARTICULARLY AS THE BPA SUGGEST THIS IN THEIR PUBLIC INFORMATION SECTION.

Fill in the blanks and forward the letter following the explanation to both Parking Eye and the retailer/landowner by recorded delivery.

Please post up the response in order that we can assist further and record replies.

I hope this information is of assistance

[The vast majority of private parking tickets are issued by members of the British Parking Association (BPA) Ltd’s Approved Operator Scheme (AOS). You should be able to see the letters BPA and/or AOS on the signage and or on the actual parking ticket. Alternatively go to the BPA’s website and look on the list of Approved Operators to see if the issuing company is listed as a member.

This template challenge letter is solely intended for parking tickets issued by a BPA Ltd member.

The private parking company (PPC) as a member of the BPA Ltd will without exception seek to recover the amount of money claimed on the parking ticket under the provisions of Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). From this point onwards therefore we shall no longer incorrectly refer to it as a parking ticket but will now give those notices their correct titles as defined in PoFA.

1) A ‘Notice to Driver’ (NTD) a ticket placed on the vehicle at the time of the alleged incident

2) A ‘Notice to Keeper’ (NTK) a ticket sent/received via the postal system

Next, under PoFA , the amount of money claimed on the NTD/NTK is referred to as a ‘Parking Charge’ and the ‘Parking Charge’ is simply defined as ‘a fee or a charge’

OK, so that’s some of the basic house-keeping sorted, let’s move on – so why have we produced this challenge letter?

Well, when Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 was enacted, the Secretary of State for Transport reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided. He said:

“The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”

You therefore have every right to question exactly what it is that the PPC is alleging against you, it’s legal capacity to do so, and the amount being claimed.

This is a template letter in which we have tried to flag all of the potential issues that can arise following the receipt of either a NTD or NTK issued for an alleged contravention whilst parked on private land. You can customize it as you wish when writing to a private parking company. It does not give you legal advice. The site owners take no responsibility for the use you make of the letter, which is provided merely as a basis to help you prepare your own letter. Remember that when you omit or add any text, you will need to renumber the paragraphs. Under no circumstances should you make any dishonest statements. Keep a copy of all correspondence.]

...................................................................................................................................................

Name

Address

Date

Without prejudice, except as to costs Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate) [Give its ref number]

On (date) I was the registered keeper of a (make and model of vehicle) registration number (reg number).

Before I decide how to deal with your Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate), I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter. I dispute the parking charge for the reasons set out below. Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level. 1. No contract

There was no contract between the driver and [insert name of parking company]. The driver did not see any contractual information on any signs when entering the car park and therefore at that time had no idea that any contract or restrictions applied. As a consequence the requirements for forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, and certainty of terms were not satisfied.

2. Trespass

If there was no contract, then at most the driver was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this were the case, the driver may be liable to damages. Given that no ‘damage’ was done to the car park and that the car park was not completely full when the driver parked or when the driver left, there was in fact no loss at all.

3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable charge

Even if there was a contract (which is denied), the following matters are relevant: 3(a). Punitive

The parking charge you are imposing is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable). The £[insert amount] parking charge is arbitrary and disproportionate to any alleged breach of contract or trespass. This would also apply to any mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.

3(b). Unfair

The £[insert amount] parking charge you are imposing is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In

particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations which gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e):

‘Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.’

Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) says:

‘A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer’

And 5(2), which states:

‘A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.’ 3©. Unreasonable

The £[insert amount] parking charge you are imposing is an unreasonable indemnity clause under section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, which says:

‘A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.’ Further information I require you to provide and take notice of:

Please note specifically that this letter is not an appeal however, it is a challenge to the issue of the Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate) as set out in the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22. I should be grateful for answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct. 4(a). Cause of action.

Please make this clear. If it is your claim that the driver entered into a contract, please send me a complete version of the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say the driver agreed to.

4(b). Further to the above please explain fully on which of the following grounds your claim is based:

(i) Damages for trespass

(ii) Damages for breach of contract

(iii) A contractual sum

5. Your loss.

If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages, please give me a full breakdown of the actual loss you say was suffered by your business or the landowner/landholder.

6. Appeals procedure.

I require a copy of any appeal procedure you follow, along with details of what factors you take into account; who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent; whether you require oral or written submissions; whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments you would put forward on this matter in any subsequent appeal process so that either the registered keeper or the driver might consider his or her response to any existing or new issues which are raised. 8. Your status.

Your Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate) simply mentions [insert name of parking company if that is who is named on the NTD/NTK]. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £[insert amount] parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

9. Ownership of premises.

Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.

10. Contract to operate.

Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder.

11. Involvement of landowner/landholder.

Please explain any involvement, if at all, of the landowner/landholder with the management of parking at this site and specifically with regard to the issue and enforcement of your Notices to Driver/Keeper. (delete as appropriate)

12(a). Photographs- handling.

Your notice refers to ‘photographic evidence’. Please send me a copy of your procedures for handling and processing that evidence and the relevant audit trail. Furthermore, under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of all such photographs along with a copy of all other data you hold relating to me. As this would be required to be disclosed in any event as part of your evidence bundle in the small claims process, I do not expect to pay for the release of my personal data which you hold.

12(b). Photographs – evidence.

The copies of the photographs that you have provided along with the Parking Charge Notice merely show my vehicle entering and leaving the car park but do not show the actual alleged parking contravention on which your Parking Charge Notice has been issued. Please therefore provide me with copies of all photographs that evidence the actual alleged parking contravention itself

13. Signage.

If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to

evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.

14. Legal representation.

Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors, if any, in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

15. To avoid doubt, please do not do any of the following:

(i) Send any further correspondence or documents to me or try to communicate with me in any way except to address in writing the specific points I have raised in this letter.

(ii) Send me any document purporting to be from the county court unless it is a valid claim form duly issued.

(iii) Write to me threatening to send bailiffs to my address without first issuing a court claim form and obtaining judgment.

(iv) Send me any standard letters from your company or debt collectors.

16. If you wish to make a claim you may do so online. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue proceedings, please note that:

(i) I reserve the right to add further arguments to the defence

(ii) I or my representative will be happy to attend any court mediation that might be offered.

17. I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and a comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I shall respond to your Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate).

18. If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.

19. If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.

Yours

Thanks to you for reply. Will post response

The secret with these companies is to ask very specific questions and never be bullied by their negative response or threats. The failure to provide precise answers shows a very obvious weakness in their claim. Never be put off challenging simply because they refer to the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice. The BPA is merely a lap dog organisation funded by the private parking companies to try and justify their highly questionable existence, the BPA CODE OF PRACTICE IN REALITY is nothing more than IMPERSONATION OF AUTHORITY and should never be taken seriously

Furthermore, the actions of the debt collection companies who are members of the BPA very often in my opinion breach the OFT guidance relating to Debt Collection Practices, therefore the more we complain to the authorities the better.

IN ENGLAND AND WALES NOBODY SHOULD EVER MISS THE OPPOTUINITY TO APPEAL THROUGH POPLA AS THE DECISION IS ONLY BINDING ON THE PARKING COMPANY.

If you want to look at this issue in reality with an element of humour simply go to THE PARKING PRANKSTER WEBSITE.

Hello all again, never heard anything from Parking Eye at all even though letter as detailed above was sent. On Friday 8th August a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd demanding payment for an unpaid parking charge of £150.00. They state in their letter that Parking Eye had written to us recently about the unpaid parking charge (1 year ago plus to be exact ? recently indeed?). They have asked for payment no later than 21/08/14 or a recommendation will then be made to the creditor's solicitor that court action should be taken. I presume a second letter will be sent in respect of the second so called parking offence..we await developments.

What now is the consensus on a sensible course of action in respect of this communication.

Thanks again

Charlie

Hello Charlie.

I suspect that DR+ aren't normally something to worry about, but the forum guys should be along later to advise you.

HB

CharlieCC,

From what I have seen / read on here.

It normaly goes DR+ then gets passed to Zenith.

Person sitting next to DR+.

Nothing to worry about. Unless Court papers arrive.

Hello all again, never heard anything from Parking Eye at all even though letter as detailed above was sent. On Friday 8th August a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd demanding payment for an unpaid parking charge of £150.00. They state in their letter that Parking Eye had written to us recently about the unpaid parking charge (1 year ago plus to be exact ? recently indeed?). They have asked for payment no later than 21/08/14 or a recommendation will then be made to the creditor's solicitor that court action should be taken. I presume a second letter will be sent in respect of the second so called parking offence..we await developments.

 

What now is the consensus on a sensible course of action in respect of this communication.

 

Thanks again

 

Charlie

DR+ can do nothing. Zenith can do nothing.

You only need to take action if you get a LBC from ParkingEye... er, again...

Personally I would wait for something from ParkingEye.

Thanks again. Interestingly, there is no reason given why the charge has now risen to £150. Surely that should have been clarified?

Best

Charlie

The only reason for the rise in charge is because they would like more of your money for doing nothing - if you want to cross the T's and dot the I's you can send one letter only to DRP and say nothing more than any alleged debt is denied, please refer to your client, no further correspondence will be entered into with DRP on this matter. Never phone them or if they phone you, say nothing and do not do their 'security' checks, tell them anything must be out in writing to which they will require you to do the security checks, refuse and say in writing only and and do not call this number again - then hang up. If they dare door step you shut the door in their face and say in writing only - do not let them intimidate you into saying anything more, call Plod for a breach of the peace if they don't go away.

DRP have no interest in the matter but if you are gullible enough to believe that they have some authority they stick a few quid for themselves on top. This pays for all of those who dont fall for their lies where they only get £15 for their letter writing.

OK, thanks again

Hello again all!

I wrote to Debt Recovery Plus stating that the alleged offence was denied. Another letter from them has arrived stating notice of intended court action and that to prevent this case being passed to the creditor's solicitor then the unpaid 'charge' should be paid by 5/9/14. Am I right to still ignore this, they go on to mention court fees and solicitor costs if the case goes to court?

Thanks

Charlie

Hello again all!

 

I wrote to Debt Recovery Plus stating that the alleged offence was denied. Another letter from them has arrived stating notice of intended court action and that to prevent this case being passed to the creditor's solicitor then the unpaid 'charge' should be paid by 5/9/14. Am I right to still ignore this, they go on to mention court fees and solicitor costs if the case goes to court?

 

Thanks

 

Charlie

Hello Charlie. Would you be able to type up or scan without personal details exactly what this letter says please? Does it use words like 'can', 'could' or 'may' in terms of going to court?

HB

This sounds like Letter #2 of a chain of 3. And probably starts...

Dear xxx

 

Notice of intended court action - unpaid parking charge £xxx.xx

We refer to our letter dated xx/xx/xxxx, and note that we have not received payment of the amount shown above.

 

To prevent this case being passed to the creditor's solicitor to commence court proceedings, you must pay the full amount of £xxx.xx by xx/xx/xxxx etc

Letter #3 of 3 that you'll receive about 14 days after #2, will offer you 'one last chance' and to sweeten the deal, they'll offer you a "discount" to boot. Ain't that so sweet of them

Read my post again, they can do nothing other than send out stupid letters. Writing to them encourages them to think that they stand a chance of getting you to give in, unless it is to warn them that you will go after them if they continue to send you their taradiddles.

Hi there all

Here is an anonymised copy of the letter received.

I suspect from the replies that it is a standard letter.

:mad2:

Best Charlie

Convert yo pdf

Also read it carefully. If may, could.

It even starts with... IF you are liable for this charge.

Ahem. Why are they chasing an alleged debt when they dont even know you owe it.

Yep, definitely their "Standard Letter Number 2" directly from the DR+ playbook. You can safely make paper aeroplanes out of it, or if you have a hamster, shred and use for hamster bedding.

I'd put a fiver on it that I could even tell you who it's "signed" by

Anne Stone or Hannah Johnson