Hi.

Hope someone can help me

- I have been got by PBS as well.

Was assured by Peter Abbott (who arrived late and kept saying how we would have to be quick and not waste his time!)

Cancelled contract after the 6 months.

have now rec a letter and invoice (inv dated 77th June 2013) that i have to pay them £3000 + vat.

This I know from reading the forum is the penalty clause but what do i do now?

Have contacted Citizens advice but not that helpful

- said I should do a letter re breach of contract for not providing any services.

Had a t/c from a woman 'Rebecca' saying how would I be paying the invoice?

Caught me on the hop a bit as not heard from them since I sent my last letter at beg of April now 25 june

- said I owed nothing the business was not sold and PBS were told to contact me in writing not phone me.

kept misquoting me about what I had said.

We have just moved house across the country for my husbands work and

I am closing the business so do I have to let them know the new address?

She threatened me with court action.

I said contract not valid and its cancelled anyway.

help please!

Forgot to say

- Peter Abbott agreed NO FEES

- written on contract zero fee for admin/marketing so

how can they charge another 3000+ vat for marketing??.

I pointed out the clause about paying the 3000 + vat - and

said was this payablel if bus not sold eg.

He assured me that NO FEES would be payable unless they sold the business.

|PLease help!

HI. can you tell me how it went and what you used as your defence? PBS are threatening me with court action. I'm closing the business. Fed up of the stress. Feel so stupid for signing the thing!!

Hi - me too - did not pay upfront - said I could not afford it -was assured by Peter Abbott that it was \NO sale NO fee even with the what I now know is a penalty clause.

Hi there,

 

I'm having similar issues with Phoenix but I did not pay a marketing fee unlike testament. Where do you think I stand with it.

 

Thanks

Hi - me too - did not pay upfront - said I could not afford it -was assured by Peter Abbott that it was \NO sale NO fee even with the what I now know is a penalty clause.

Hello there.

Do you have anything in writing from these people please? It would make your life much easier.

My best, HB

Hello there.

 

Do you have anything in writing from these people please? It would make your life much easier.

 

My best, HB

I do have the contract and a letter/invoice that came last week.

T/c today from a woman called Rebecca.

Said when was I paying the invoice.

And too late to reply in writing as I was 'out if time'.

No timescale on letter or invoice though.

Company name spelt wrong,

half if address missing and invoice dated 77th June 2013.

Threatened me on phone and kept twisting what I said.

Said they would take me to court for money.

I said I had already written them and cancelled contract.

Business not sold so will not pay anything.

HI. HELP PLEASE!

Being harassed by PBS by tel (unkown number) calls saying I owe £3000 + vat.

I've spent some time on this forum and am now being threatened with court.

2nd tel call today from a woman called 'Natasha Fisher' says I signed the contract and agreed to the fee!

Said she wants to resolve the issue.

threatened me with legal action then offered to negociate and reduce the fee than changed her mind and threatend me again. would not let me talk. said I was aggressive!

I said I had NOT agreed to the fee. states ZERO fees on my contract

- Peter Abbott assured me that this was purely for admin purposes

- as zero fees were written on contract then I would only psy if business was sold.

said they made mo attempt to sell my business. Not on website.

I had to contact them October (it might have been sept) to say what was happening - not heard from you and business not on your website.

I explained about my head injury the previous dec and not being able to work in business hence when they contacted me about selling it

I tought it might be useful.

PA assured me they had buyers and I shouldn't waste his time!

He was v late

- no apology just kept saying I needed to be serious and not waste his time.

Wish I'd left to go to work (pt at Tesco - was in my uniform) instead of waiting but I didn't.

really getting worried.

tc last wed from 'Rebecca' and now from this woman. please help.

I have said I will not be paying them any money - they have not sold business and I was assured by PA only if they sold business.

PLease help.

Debi.

I have previously posted on the subject of Pheonix and have been to court and successfully defended a claim.

 

 

PheonixBusiness Agents v S Wynn (2012) CASE No. 1SE02571 - Walsall County Court

 

 

I must point out that it is not a good idea to try and defend this on the basis of any consumer laws as these do not apply in the case of Pheonix contracts.

 

As was made clear in the case I defended, all contracts are not between a business and a consumer, as in every case both parties to the contract are in fact a business. Therefore the contract is made between two parties on an equal footing. The judge in my case stated very clealry that when two equals enter a contract they may give away their rights within the terms of the contract and therefore tests of fairness do not apply.

 

The only good defence is the same defence used in "Private Parking Ticket" cases.

 

I used the same defence supplied by some great members of consumer action group to win this case.

 

That a charge for breach of contract must be a "GENUINE PRE-ESTIMATE OF LOSS"

 

If IT IS NOT it becomes a penalty and is uneforceable in law.

 

I am not a solicitor - Pheonix came with a solicitor who in private chambers told me I didn't have a chance. BUT using the following case, the judge threw out the Pheonix claim:

 

"OB Services V ThurlowWorcester Combined Court 10 February 2011".

Me too - zero marketing/admin fees. they are threatening court action - said this last wed on the first t/c.

Hi there,

 

I did not pay any marketing fees and it states this on the contract. Do you know where I stand with regards to classing the 3000 as a penalty fee?

 

Thanks

Hi - need advice urgently - do you know if they set up the yahoo group? And how to join if they did. being harassed by PBS at moment.

HI. they are now threatening me with court action. quite worried although I will not pay this invoice its not what was agreed and peter abbott said I would not have to as zero fees for admin/marketing on contract. Anything I could use for my defence if it does go to court? Please help. Debi

Was a yahoo group set up? Need to know as they are threatening me with court action now. Thanks

can i suggest one of you start a yahoo group

 

but MAKE IT PRIVATE!!

 

invited members only.

 

dx

HI - I'm being harassed by PBS now - have supplied them with the accounts when they last asked - originally they never contacted me after the visit from peter abbott and contract signed. I did supply soe rough figs, exp i'd had a head injury the dec before and not worked in business til about may again due to this - he said this was fine and someone would contact me in next week or so. no onoe did. Sept/oct I contacted them as nothing on website. had to ring 4 or more times. said someone would ring me back - no one did. next day I rec in post 2 pages of printout about my business - incorrect info - untrue info and made up info on it! Even used my website pics when they were told not to - it was toi be a discreet sale. anyway threatened with legal action today. please help if you can. what happened with you? Debi

Hello to everyone getting involved with this thread,

I cannot pm anyone just yet as i have not posted enough but can anyone suggest a way that we can communicate without 'hanging out our washing' for all to see? I am quite happy to exchange info with interested parties and the idea of strength in numbers seems a good one. Of course, by the time we need to group together like this its a little late and as Testament says, we need to read and understand the contracts fully in the first place. The more trusting folk (naive?) amongst us assume that we are dealing with straight people though. We expect them to make honest efforts to sell and i believe most of us 'read over' the cancellation fee etc because at point of signature we would see no reason to cancel within a year. I hope threads like this will enable potential clients for this business to see the light before this happens to them.

I seem to be heading for court, unfortunate as this is, my experience will provide valuable info to anyone finding themselves in this position. This company seems to thrive on their clients reluctance to enter the legal arena and the associated costs. I confess i was petrified when i started but I am so up for the fight now! I have what I believe to be good council around me from business people and others who have been to court. I will be litigating in person to keep my costs to a minimum. Others should look up previous threads from Testament who has been through court with this company and offers good advice. I am about to present my defence to the court for allocation so, the likely date of an actual court hearing is June /July?

There must be others who have been to court with this company. Testament belives they use a couple of solicitors which indicates that they go to court quite a bit or, perhaps that the threat of a solicitor is enough for most to cough up a 'settlement fee'. Its my opinion that their solicitors are on a retainer; they go through the motions and in the majority of instances this is enough to get some revenue.

Disgruntled23- You dont seem to have been in breach of anything yet. Can't you just send them anything in the way of books? You are a sole trader and it doesnt matter that you havent done much. They are trying anything on and the fact that you paid up £750 at a later date probably makes them think you will pay up again. You have paid a marketing fee, see out the contract date whichever way you can. The defence of the cancellation being a penalty fee seems to be very strong though so dont fret too much.

Hi - can I ask what other forums you've seen it on? Threatened with court action today by them as per last wed phone call. did offer to reduce the figure and then changed their mind back to legal action. talked over me. would not let me say anything - apparently I'm aggressive! Please help. worried.

Hello to everyone,

My first post concerns Phoenix business agents about which, much seems to have been written already, both here and on other forums.

I personally signed a contract with them as a director of my company in October 2010.

My company was invoiced and paid £1700 in marketing fees.

 

In February 2011, I decided to leave the company and agreed with the remaining director to leave the contract in place.

The contract was for 1 year and gave them sole selling rights.

 

In July 2011, I received a letter from them informing me that, despite the fact I knew they had interested parties I had failed to contact them and I was therefore in breach of contract.

It was true that I had changed my mobile phone number but they had not contacted me on my home phone, email, or by post.

 

I phoned them immediately and I was told that they had found out I had resigned my position.

Because I had signed the contract they stated it was to me only that they could introduce buyers and because I had left the business that was now impossible.

 

They ignored the fact that the company still wanted to sell and refused to deal with them.

They advised that I pay the cancellation fee of £3000 to terminate the contract.

I refused to pay the cancellation charge and tried to get them to enter selling negotiations with my old business as they were contracted to do

but they ignored that and issued me with an invoice for breach of contract for £6000 +vat.

 

Since July 2011 they have had credit agencies threatening to take me to court within 48hrs of the debt not being paid etc which I have ignored.

My own solicitor has told me that court proceedings are now likely though because they have engaged a solicitor

 

.He states that because I have been unwilling to compromise they are going to issue proceedings.

 

This agency seems to jump on to any excuse to issue a charge: valid or not.

I believe much of their revenue comes from this very practise.

 

I would be very grateful for anyone’s thoughts or experiences on the above with regard to this agencies practices

 

and the likely outcome of a court case.

Thank you -

Hi raging Bull - whats the other business they took to court and lost? Is this testament?

Thanks dx,

 

yes, originally the letters were from debt collection agencies,

i have been told that they have been 'called off 'and now been informed the matter is with their solicitor.

 

Because their solicitor has asked mine if he is authorised to accept service on my behalf it looks as though they are prepared to go to court ?

 

This could just be a bluff of course as they are always pushing me to negotiate a compromise.

 

They have been to court with another business and lost that case (that case appears in another thread on this forum -search 'Phoenix agents').

 

 

tb.

Hi again. they are saying to me that they have made lots of advertising on the internet - the letter with the invoice says they only want to cover their costs. should I write to them or ignore? Thanks

Hi tb

 

Yes the whole thing gets a little more scary when you get out of the small claims arena and paying their solicitors costs would not be good if you don't win. But the fact still remains they will have to prove that the £7200 is an actual loss and not a penalty for cancellation. Which solicitors are they using? The case I referred too was due to the cancellation of the contract after the initial first six months. The circumstances of the cancellation are not really relevant....the judge will stick to a point of law and that will be ...is the £7200 a genuine pre estimate of loss. I would ask their solicitor to send you a breakdown of the what the £7200 consists of and state that you will consider the matter on receipt of such a breakdown. Don't mention the pre estimate of loss. If they aren't able to give you a valid loss breakdown for the amount then continue to challenge - and oops you have a nice little bit of evidence to put before the judge!!!

Hi. Have you been to court? If so can I ask for advice as they are threatening me with it. Thanks

Hi - was this group set up? Very worried as being threatened by PBS for court action. do I need to write to them or ignore. 2 phone calls so far - last wed and today was an unkown number. Thanks

can i suggest one of you start a yahoo group

 

but MAKE IT PRIVATE!!

 

invited members only.

 

dx

HI. what happened ? they are doing same to me. offered to drop the figure today - didn't give me a new figure said I was being aggressive so would go to legal team. Thanks

ignore them

stay off the phone

dx

HI. Thanks for replying so quickly. sorry clogged the board up a bit. will do. I dont normally answer unkown numbers - had a feeling it was them. Thanks for the info. will wait for legal letter then. Thanks again.

Me too - zero marketing/admin fees. they are threatening court action - said this last wed on the first t/c.

Just ignore there letters ,they will instruct there bailiffs to send you a demand letter final demand , you can respond to the bailiffs by telling them you are not going to pay it tell them it's a penalty and it can't be enforced its not a pre-estimate of loss , you must not worry they are bullies

bailiffs??? you mean DCA's

they are NOT BAILIFFS

no DCA's has ANY SUCH POWERS.

dx

own thread created

dx

]Hi Machine, Disgruntled and Ragingbull -

a group would be an excellent idea.

I suspect one or both of the two I am assisting with will end up in court

and if we can all work collectively,

provide statements for each other to demonstrate the way they do business and success stories

then that should be of great use.

Do let me know if a group is created as would be happy to assist

Which bit are you talking about?

I supplied the 3 years figs and

they can see there is no money in the business

and did when u first saw peter Abbott but he still said it as worth 25 thousand!! I disagreed.

But he just went on at me.

Does s anyone know how many have gone to court and what happened?