OK, after all the help on here I managed to successfully get Lloyds to drop a case against my mother.

However, my Brother has now asked for my / your help with a claim that Welcome are bringing against him.

The annoying thing is he put in a CCA request back in 2008, they cashed the cheque but never sent any agreement or anything (We still have the original request), I have told him to file the AOS.

I have also got him to send of a CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 to see what if anything they have.

Is there anything else we should be doing in the immediate future?

I will no doubt be back in to ask more advice in the near future.

Thanks

Sytra

The claim form

docs are in post 25 - dx siteteam..

This is the CPR 31.14 that is being sent.

Hegarty LLP

48 Broadway

Peterborough

PE1 1YW

Dear Sir,

Re: Welcome Financial Services Ltd v XXXXXX, Case No: XXXXXX

CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 the default notice

3 the termination notice

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

And the CPR 18 that is being sent.

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

To: Welcome Financial Services Ltd

Please answer the following questions:

1. Was a Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so:

a] Upon what date, for what amount and what was the date for remedy of the breach?

b] Was the issuance of the Default Notice noted in the communications log?

2. Does the amount claimed include charges, and if so what amount?

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST

WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU

My brother has gone through all the paperwork he has and has found a copy of the agreement (although we will still send the CPR's and a CCA request). Is there anything that jumps out as being dodgy? Although there are signatures at the bottom he has said that he doesn't think they look like his, i wouldn't like to say one way or another though.

docs are in post 25 - dx siteteam..

I don't believe it!! Posted the CPR's and CCA last tue by 1st class rec, by monday this week still hadn't been delivered so sent again using Next Day, low and behold they BOTH get delivered this morning!

Oh well, they have no excuse now.

Your timeline is as follows.

Issue dated 29 April + 5 for service = 4th May + 14 to acknowledge = 18th May + 14 to submit defence = 1st June 2013.

I see there is Payment Protection Insurance on the agreement - was it requested or required ? Could it have been mis-sold. If so, then it might be worth doing a spread sheet to see if there is a counter balance.

I don't think you will get much of a response to your CPR 31.14, simply because the only item mentioned in the PoC is the Agreement. However, you have picked up the slack there with the CPR part 18

I would suggest you put in a claim for the undelivered Recorded letters to Royal Mail at the very least you want your postage back ? I suspect that you will find that they have indeed been delivered but that their online tracking service hasn't been updated.

As for the signature, if your brother believes the signature is not his, perhaps it might be worth having a look for something else that was signed by him around that time.. just to compare !

I will flag your thread for further assistance, but there might not be much else you can do until you receive their response to your CPR.

Quick update:

We have had a response to the CCA Request and also the CPR18.

In the CPR response they claim that they don't see the relevance as a default notice is not needed,

however from what i can see it does say in the terms S4 that incase of default they WILL issue a default notice

( I will scan a copy up later) and

also the CCA the agreement that they have sent is quite blurry and the terms are on a sep A4 sheet and cut off some of the sentences

and apparently can't be read without eye strain! (again will scan a copy in later).

We also have 6 pages of statements in which they have a load of fees and charges that don't make sense eg "Capitalisation" and "Ad Hoc Fee"??

for info, these are the default notice regs http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19599&d=1278105716

unpaid arrears usually are regarded/end up as a default if not compounded. have you checked credit files? is there a default recorded and when? but, if they are trying to rely on it being a non default case, then they should've sent 'non default' notice calling it in as required by the cc act in non default cases?

also, did they send any required arrears notices, if applicable?

Are they claiming for sums not yet due if the account has not been terminated

Yes there is a default on the credit file for £3823 placed on 16/2/2008. No notices have been received. He has only started to receive the account statement that they claim they are supposed to send at least every 6 months the last 2 months.

Are they claiming for sums not yet due if the account has not been terminated

As far as i am aware the claim is for the whole outstanding balance (it is my brothers claim so have to keep referring to him)

He took the loan out, then i don't know why but stopped paying it back (think it was when he hit rock bottom with his ex), he hasn't heard anything from them since he did a CCA request in 2008. Then he gets the letter from IND in April 2013. As far as i can tell the loan should have been paid back about 3 years ago. (So technically the sums are overdue i think)

Then they are not claiming for arrears only , they have problems

well, if no non default notice received, and claim is for total balance not arrears, there is a default prior to the claim (when was that in relation to the last payment?) then seems it is a default case requiring a def notice as is regulated? is this re hire purchase?

if no required arrears notices received (required from 08 i think), then can't claim for any re that period of non compliance?

see what others say though

well, if no non default notice received, and claim is for total balance not arrears, there is a default (when was that in relation to the last payment?) Last payment around about June 2007 then seems it is a default case requiring a def notice as is regulated? is this re hire purchase? No, personal loan

if no required arrears notices received, then can't claim for any re that period of non compliance?

see what others say though

Have highlighted the answer in red above

They have no cause of action to claim from

Well that is a relief to hear!!!

Any idea what we should put in the defence? all help will be greatly appreciated

Thank you

When is the defence due

i am not going to be able to do it for the due date as going away, so will have to get it in a couple of days earlier so i am looking at 29th or 30th May.

I have merged all the docs to PDF for easy viewing

If they are claiming for arrears, then there should have been a default notice issued so that you were given the opportunity to remedy the breach ? I find their response to your CPR part 18 quite bizarre !

You don't issue a claim for arrears ?

Can we please type out what it says on the claim form - the reason they are issuing the claim. That way we know how to respond in your defence.

citb, claim form is in that pdf #25

maybe claimant is trying what amex did? (which ultimately failed, brandon v amex CA case)

Can we please type out what it says on the claim form - the reason they are issuing the claim. That way we know how to respond in your defence.

This is what is written on the claim form.

The Claimant claims for sums due under

Fixed Sum Loan Agreement(s) regulated by

the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into

between the Claimant and the Defendant. The

Defendant failed to pay the contractual

instalments in compliance with the terms of

the Agreement(s). The Claimant complied

with Section III and IV and Annex B of the

PD Pre-Action Conduct.

And the Claimant Claims:

Personal Loan Account Number xxxxxx

balance of £xxxxxxx as of 5/12/11.

Interest under s69 of the County court Act

1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 5/12/11

to 26/4/13 of xxxxxx and also interest at

the same rate up to the date of judgment or

earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.90

AND costs.

Many thanks for this, I have alerted andyorch on your behalf. I am still concerned about this missing default notice. In order to take the "next step" in enforcement, they must issue a default notice, Formal Demand, Letter before Action. Then the claim.

They mention that you failed to pay the contractual instalments, and are claiming for the "balance" is the sum they are claiming the outstanding balance or simply the arrears ?

It is the full outstanding balance,

my brother took out the loan to pay a few other debts off (stupid to go to welcome, I did tell him at the time).

He made a few payments then split with is mrs and somewhere along the line stopped paying all his debts.

He had a letter from lewis a while later, which is when he cca'd them back in 08,

not heard anything since till the letter from ind the beginning april then the claim.