Hi, I am new to this forum but I have previously read threads about Devere Parking. The Managing agents at my resident car park have authorised Devere Parking to issue PCN's to anyone who fails to display a resident permit on their dashboard. I had forgotten to do so one time back in January and found a PCN from them on my windscreen. I did call them a mistake probably in hindsight where they told me they would let me pay a reduced rate of £30 - I told them I didn't have it and they then said maybe I should ask a member of my family to help with it, I told them no I couldn't do that either. Anyway, since then I have received correspondence from them where the fee went up to £100 and to pay within 14 days which I ignored. Then a 7 day/intent to court proceedings which was £100 again which I ignored. Today, I have received a court claim form from them which is claiming £150 + £25 court fees. How should I respond to this?

Can you scan it up in order that further information can be provided, In the meantime write them asking to substantiate the sum claimed and written confirmation that they have authority from the land owner to raise such a claim.

OK, I have scanned the document as best I can.

well for a start i would not be asking them if they had any authority from the land owner to bring a civil claim.

i would be asking for a copy of the commercial contract that allows them to do that, if it is not then in the contract, i would be putting into a defence

dont do the work for them

its a bit small, can you rescan

Ok - particulars of claim are as follows:- This concerns the issue of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a breach of the parking Terms and Conditions in a private car park known as Redhill Court, Bournemouth where the defendant lives. A vehicle registered at DVLA in the defendants name was seen parked and was not displaying a valid permit on the dashboard or windscreen as required. Date of event was 6th January 2013 and vehicle was FP** F**. Signs at this car park state the T and C's and that failure to adhere will result in the issue of said PCN. That the driver of the vehicle will be liable to accept and pay in that they have entered into a contract to do so. Since the Freedoms of Protection Act 2012 the registered keeper will become liable to pay if they have not declared to the Claimant the name and address of any other alleged driver when requested. The defendant telephoned the Claimant on the 7th January 2013 and as a gesture of goodwill was offered a reduced settlement fee of £30. The defendant declined this offer and has ignored all subsequent letters sent to her.

I always find the wording on anything that says a 'gesture of good will' very very dodgy.

Why would they offer a gesture of goodwill???? I'ts like they are doing YOU a favour for taking your money from you.

They, like others are just hoping that you will pay them something. They, like others are hoping you will be foolish enough to bulk up their bank account.

How the hell can they justify that outrageous amount for parking on private land where you live?

I wouldnt think they have a hope in hells chance of taking you to court and winning.

These 'parking attendents' seem to appear from nowhere, everywhere!

They are likes flies around a lump of S**t, or sharks circling their prey. If it were me, there is NO WAY I would pay anything to them. Call their bluff and let them take you to court, which I very much doubt they will do, and if they do I very much doubt they will win. They have stated in their letter to you the following 'private car park known as Redhill Court, Bournemouth where the defendant lives.

These few words say it all don't they. Its a private car park and its where YOU live, so if you cant park where you live on private land, where the hell are you supposed to park.!!

You may have forgotten to display a parking permit at that time, but that doesnt give them the right to chase you for money owed which you dont owe them.

Wait for more replies, i am in a meeting for most of this afternoon and i will comment this evening

The main guys will be along in a while to advise you, the thing to do for now is to not panic, the sending out of court papers is just another step these days, the defence you can put in is strong and they probably won't bother actually going to court.

Firstly, are the court papers official stamped documents? check with the court that issued them that they are aware of them - it is not unheard of for PPCs to send out faked court papers to frighten people into paying.

OK. The telephone conversation initially began by them telling me how they made their money and what paid their wages which was simply by people paying on the tickets that they had issued them I have no intention of encouraging this practice and being bullied into paying when I have parked in my own private resident car park. Just need some info on a good solid defence and we will see what the judge has to say about it all.

Yes I have gone onto MoneyClaim Online and there is a claim issued against me.

anybody can issue a claim

going through with it is a different matter

Do you have a designated parking bay? Do you own the property or is it rented?

I reiterate the last post. And add, what are the terms of the lease re parking ?

The parking system was put into place and agreed between the Managing agents and my landlord that owns my property.

Thursday, March 8, 2012

A challenge to a private parking charge notice issued at the car park of The Aggi in Braunton

Update on 28/3/12: Following this letter the charge has now been cancelled.

Like many people I'd heard odd stories about parking charge notices being issued for parking on private land but until today I'd never had first hand experience. That is until I parked at The Aggi (full name: The Agricultural Inn) in Braunton, went to the church next door to help with a Lent lunch and then returned to find a demand from "Creative Parking Solutions" for £75 (pictured left - click to enlarge) for not getting a parking ticket which they say will go up to £120 if not paid within 7 days. Now I usually take the view that life's too short to take up disputes of this size if you're fortunate enough to be able to afford not to. However, a few google searches of the firm later and it was clear to me that I'm not the only one feeling a little stung by receiving such a claim from the same firm (albeit at different locations):

Drivers Angry at fines imposed in car park

Motorists slate car park firm for issuing tickets after midnight

Fight against parking fines

So, for what it's worth, I've decided that the fight is worth taking up and have replied with the following (personal details are blanked out).

The letter

To:

Central Payment Office, Creative Parking Solutions, Suite 8, Bridge Chambers Business Centre, 1 Bridge Chambers, Barnstaple, Devon EX31 1HB.

Without prejudice, save as to costs

Re. Parking Charge Notice No. ****. Agricultural Inn, Braunton. Vehicle registration **** ***.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I was very surprised to receive a 'Parking Charge Notice' (no.****) today at The Agricultural Inn for my vehicle whose registration number is set out at the top of this letter. I dispute the charge for the reasons set out below. Please note that without prejudice to the fact that I dispute the whole basis of the claim, my main beef is with what I consider to be a disproportionate and punitive level of charge.

1. No contract

There was no contract between myself and either Creative Parking Solutions or The Agricultural Inn. I did not see the notices when I parked and at that time had no idea any charge whatsoever was required. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc were not satisfied. Had I known when I parked, I would have been happy to pay. For what it's worth, I was helping my local church (St Brannocks) which was organising a Lent Lunch at the Methodist/URC Church next to the Aggi.

2. Trespass

If there was no contract, then at most I was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this was the case, I would be liable to damages. Given that I did no damage to the car park and furthermore that the car park was not full when I parked and I believe also when I left, I would suggest that there was therefore no loss at all.

3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable

Without prejudice to the foregoing, even if there was a contract (which is denied):

a. Punitive

The charge that you are levying is punitive and therefore void (ie unenforceable) against me. The charge of £75 is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges (which in any event are a completely different beast). This is all the more so for the additional charge of £45 which you say accrues after seven days of non-payment. This would also apply to your mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.

b. Unfair

The charge you are levying is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."

c. Unreasonable

The charge you are levying is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

Further information

Please take this letter to constitute a written appeal in accordance with your Notice. I also make the following points. I would be grateful for answers to all questions raised and in this respect remind you of the obligations set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct).

1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that I entered into a contract, please send me a complete breakdown of all the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say I agreed.

2. Your loss: please give me a full breakdown as to the actual loss you say was suffered by either yourselves or The Agricultural Inn.

3. The appeal: please send me a copy of the procedure which you follow, along with setting out what factors are taken into account, who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent, whether you require oral submissions, whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments being put by yourselves on this matter in the Appeal so that I might reply to any new issues which are raised. If you decide to dismiss the appeal, please send me the full reasoning in relation to each of the specific points raised in this letter.

4. Time for the appeal. Your parking charge notice says: ‘Appeals/challenges received after 7 (seven) days will not be upheld or considered unless in extreme circumkstances, and at the Company’s discretion.’ Please tell me how you say this complies with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (above)?

5. Your 'Parking Charge Notice': what do you say is the status of this document? Do you claim it is an invoice pursuant to a contract (in other words an invoice which would generally get declared to the Inland Revenue) or does it have some other status? If it is the latter, please clarify exactly what you say it is?

6. Your status. Your Parking Charge Notice simply mentions 'Creative Parking Solutions'. Please tell me who exactly is making this charge? Are you a limited company? If so, why is this not indicated on either the Notice or your website (http://creativeparkingsolutions.co.uk) along with your company registration number? In this respect, I note that the Companies Act 2006 and the Business Names Act 1985 provides that every UK company should list on its website: its name, its company registration number, its place of registration and its registered office address. If you are not a company, then I assume this is run by an individual or individuals and I would appreciate knowing exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity. Are you VAT registered? For what it’s worth, a female member of staff in The Aggi told me to call 'Frank'. A couple of articles in the North Devon Journal quote 'Francis Millard' and 'Frank Millard' for Creative Parking Solutions. Is this or are these the person/people running Creative Parking Solutions?

7. The Agricultural Inn. A female member of staff in The Agricultural Inn suggested that running the car park had nothing to do with them. Please can you tell me who owns the car park and what is the relationship between The Agricultural Inn and yourselves? Please explain any involvement at all of The Agricultural Inn with yourselves as well as specifically with the Parking Charge Notices. I am also sending them a copy of this letter.

8. What is the relationship between ‘Creative Parking Solutions’ and Creative Parking Solutions PLC (www.creativecarpark.co.uk)? I am sending a copy of this letter to Gary Wayne who it seems is the CEO of Creative Parking Solutions PLC. [uPDATE: Gary Wayne has confirmed that the claim is not made by Creative Parking PLC and that the relevant Creative Parking Solutions is at www.creativeparkingsolutions.co.uk]

9. Your Notice mentions that 'A photograph may have been taken of the vehicle for evidential value and will be stored in accordance with the Company's Data Protection procedures'. Please send me a copy of those procedures. Furthermore, pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of any such photo along with a copy of any other data which you hold relating to me.

10. Please send me details of any Codes by which you claim to comply and any governing body or other such organisation of which you are a member.

11. Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors (if any) in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

12. For the avoidance of doubt (and without suggesting that you would), please do not do the following:

a. Send me any document purporting to be from the County Court unless it is a valid Claim Form duly issued.

b. Write to me threatening to send round bailiffs without first going through the process of issuing a Claim Form and obtaining judgment.

c. Send me any standard letters either from yourselves or debt-collectors without addressing the specific points raised in this response.

d. I note that your website says: ‘Unlike some of our competitors, we maximise the deterrent value of parking charge notices by ensuring that all notices issued are pursued if necessary to the issue of a court summons.’ Please can you confirm that this is accurate and tell me how many claims you have pursued to a court hearing? Are there any Notices you have issued which have not been enforced? I note in this respect that a female member of staff in The Agricultural Inn told me yesterday that she had had a problem (albeit over a different issue apparently) with one of your parking tickets only the day before and I was given the impression that the Notice was not going to be enforced in that case.

13. If you want to make a claim , for your information you can issue online or I am sure that Barnstaple County Court would also be very happy to give you a form. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue:

a. I reserve the right to add further arguments to my Defence.

b. Please rest assured that I will be more than happy to attend any court mediations which might be offered.

the above is how a barrister dealt his his PPC charge. Pick out the relevant parts and deny that the money is owed for the reasons stated. You can then add the other bits for your defence as you get the e4xtra help. You need to look at the deeds of the property to see what is really what in regard to the parking. Managing agents can be sacked by the residnets if a majority want it to happen so dont hold too much to store by what they say. The freeholder is the only person who can sign up these people and have any legal right to collect money and that will be dependant upon the lease any way.

The parking system was put into place and agreed between the Managing agents and my landlord that owns my property.

But what does it say in your lease regarding parking?

Another point Devere seem to do rather well with these claims in Bournemouth for some strange reason!

OK, currently there is no actual signed lease between me and the landlord, it is just an ongoing monthly arrangement as I have been living at the property for +9years. There is a resident committee which I believe had initally agreed with the current Managing agents that a parking system can be put into place in our private car park as from 1st Sept 2011 and all owners including landlords/letting agents to be notified so that parking permits are passed on to the relevant tenants.

The first thing you need to do is find out if your flat has parking rights on a specific area. If your landlord owns the flat and the parking area. Devere act as agents,if your landlord owns the parking area, then they are acting for them.

If the parking is not allocated but first come first served,then you would need to see your landlords deeds to see what they say about parking. The contents of deeds or a lease, scupper Deveres claim.

As far as I know from my landlord initally when he lived there some 20 years ago, not as many people had cars so it was a first come first served basis. There are no allocated spaces in the car park. So I don't think it would say very much on his deeds about the parking.

Is your landlord the owner of the Freehold (entire building) ? Or does he just have a long Lease of the flat you occupy - making you a sub-tenant?

If the latter it is his Lease that needs to be known.

To help avoid confusion we take it that YOUR landlord owns a leasehold flat in a development. It will be in his lease that parking is or is not mentioned that is the issue here. The landlord who has the rights of enforcement for the whole development is the freeholder of the land the properties occupy. They are the ones who can legally allow these parking companies on to their property as long as the leases allow it. If there is no contract between the freeholder and the parking company then any levy placed upon anyone in the development, whether leaseholder, tenant or visitor, is unenforceable. Any agreement with a management company, regardless of approval of a residents committee is unenforceable as they are not the "principal". It will say something in the lease otherwise a right of way is created by those who use or cross the land and no developer would allow that. Allocation of spaces is immaterial, it is the right of "enjoyment" that is important and will be mentioned. It may be that you as a tenant cannot "enjoy" the facilities granted in a lease but highly unlikely in this case. That usually applies to sitting on the residents committee or employing or dismissing management agents.

Thanks, after plenty of research and advice in this forum, my defence is as follows: I would like to refer to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 which apply to private parking tickets. This is what the regulations say: 5 (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer. (2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term. Therefore this parking ticket is not enforceable because of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

that is a start but you would strengthen your defence if you know what is said in the lease. You can demand a copy of the agreement between the landlord and the parking company to prove that they have any authority to even be there (demand it as part of your defence submittal). You may be suprised to know how many parking companies dont have an agreement with the land owner but with a management co, which is worthless to them in cases like yours so they would lose badly if they decided to continue. Read again the barristers response to his parking ticket, there is plenty there you can use. I wouldnt rely on just one argument when you have a rich choice. Proving losses will be impossible for them as they dont own the land for example.

You can go to the land registry wb site, pay £2 and see the documents for the building you live in to show who has a financial interest in your flat and any conditions placed upon the purchase of it. I would still bother the person you rent from to