This is my first

but I have followed and read others post with interest.

Please forgive me if I have posted in the wrong place as there seem to be many different forums that would be suitable.

I am desparate for some advice from anyone who has similar experiences.

I will try and keep it as brief as I can.

In 2010 we bought a small retail business.

We took at a secured loan for £145K to buy the business and the business premises.

Lloyds put the first charge on the business premises,

but as there was a shortfall,

there was a second charge on our residential home.

The business did not perform as well as the previous owners suggested - but that's another story!

Then the recession really hit us, a supermarket opened nearby etc etc.

We therefore decided to close the business in November 2012.

We have been in contact with our Lloyds business manager throughout and were told that a different department would be in touch.

We were told that we could not rent out the premises or sell until we heard back from Lloyds therefore the property has stood empty.

The letter from Lloyds says they will consider a repayment plan,

a lump sum

or will consider any plans we put forward.

If we do not respond in 14 days they will seek to sell the business premises and our home.

We really don't know what to do or how to handle it.

Things aren't helped by the fact that the letter is dated 18 February and didn't arrive here until 25th - so when do our 14 days begin.

Also we have tried contacting the person who is handling it and left messages - they don't ring back !

Naturally we are desparate to hang on to our home as we have three small children.

Please don't anyone think that we do not accept our responsibility for paying back what we borrowed

- we absolutely do but we just don't know what approach to take with the bank.

We think we are going to ask if we can try and sell the business premises ourselves which should pay off £80-£100K of the debt

- are they likely to let us do that.

Also there will naturally by a short fall of around £65-45K - will they make us sell our home.

We have around £90K equity in the house.

Oh, and naturally they are charging us a ridiculous amount of interest each month which is crippling us.

In the early stages of the business decline our business manager indicated that we may be able to go on a payment plan to cover the shortfall however,

we are already on a debt management plan to pay off a few suppliers that we owed,

we have no savings,

my husband is working but we have very little left to live on.

Does anyone think that they would consider deferring any action against our home as long as we made a token payment each month until things improve.

Any help or opinions would be welcome.

We are, like so many others out there, are absolutely desperate.

The whole thing is having a terrible effect on our family.

I have spoken to Business Debt Helpline who had some good points to make,

tried CAB but can't get an appointment and can't get through on the phone.

A side to this,

while we had the business we incurred ridiculous bank charges due to bounced DD's/Cheques etc.

I have read on here that these charges may be reclaimable.

Last trading year our charges were over £4K should we persue Lloyds for getting some of these charges back

or will that just create an even worse situation as we owe them so much.

Sorry this is so very long, thanks to anyone who has read and thanks to anyone who responds.

I'm hoping that someone will have some advice.

We have some significant financial difficulty concerning secured loans/repossession etc.

However, my concerns on this thread are that our account with Lloyds has been passed to Wholesale Banking Recoveries.

We received a letter from them on 25 February.

The letter gave us 14 days in which to respond otherwise they would put the process in play to repossess our business premises and home.

One question is this.

The letter was dated 18th February but not received until the 25th - what about the 14 days time limit.

Also the letter said to telephone the person dealing with our case.

We have tried to contact them and left messages - they do not return the call.

We have emailed as well and not received a response.

This is really worrying to us as how are we supposed to call them within 14 days if they don't respond to our messages.

Does any one know where we stand if things continue?

We will write and send that by recorded so we have proof of contact but surely this is unfair treatment if they ignore our phone calls.

We really need to talk about our problems but they are making it impossible !!

good job too!!

keep things in WRITING if is is this serious

who are these people

sounds iffy to me.

i'll go investigte them

can you scan up the letter please

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

I'm no expert, but here are some suggestions.

I'd send a letter ASAP recorded delivery (or other signed for) to the named person stating the delay in receipt and that you'll get back within 14 days of actual receipt (assuming you feel OK doing that).

Have you contacted an agent to see what the prospects for sale are? How long will this likely take? If you can get written confirmation of thi sso much the better, as it will give you some firm data to give to the bank. Appointing an agent to handle a sale may be required, and you'll need to have lawyers to deal with the conveyancing aspects.

You'll need an income and expenditure statement to see what can be afforded towards a c£55K shortfall assuming you are allowed to handle the sale. Is the rate of repayment going to be quick enough? What was the original term and how does the repayment now compare? You mention debts to suppliers - they may need to take a cut/wait for more money as they will be unsecured most likely and lower priority.

As it is a secured loan, a token offer is unlikely to be accepted. The bank may have power to appoint an LPA Receiver, which is something you want to avoid as under that route you would have the bank's agent forced on you straight away, who will likely bleed you dry in terms of their fees and do no better at selling as they've no real incentive to sell.

If things are as serious as they seem, you might want to have an initial chat with an Insolvency Practitioner, who will advise you on whether a formal process might serve you better (sounds scary, but might be better in the medium term) rather than informal arrangements where you are constantly under pressure. Most reputable ones will do an initial 30 min or 1 hr meeting free. If you have time, and can face it, try a couple to see if there are different points of view.

Re CAB can you attend in person - you may get a "drop-in" initial appointment, and if you have CAB help with the budget planner etc, that ought to assist in some small way in terms of credibility. Not sure whether CAB can help with business debts (may be able to do if it was a partnership / sole trade, but almsot certainly not if it was a limited company).

Finally, do you bank with the lender involved? If yes, beware of them exercising set-off. Despite BCOBS, they may do it and argue the toss later.

NB The above is offered without liability - if in any doubt seek paid professional advice.

Thanks for that, really,

I can never quite get used to the idea that there are so many people who take the trouble to read and respond to other peoples issues - thanks.

Pretty much going down route you have suggested.

Sending a recorded letter today asking for their permission to go ahead

and sell the business premises ourselves (Business Debtline advised us to seek their permission first)

also pointing out in the letter the delay in receiving it and that

the income/expenditure sheet will be sent within the next few days (Business Debtline also helping us with that).

Finally managed to get to speak t someone at CAB.

Although very sympathetic not really their thing and suggested Business Debtline.

Couple of things that you mentioned that we hadn't considered is going down the Insolvency Practitioner route

also making a comparison between the original terms of repayment and what timescale we may need now.

We had the loan over a ridiculously long period on the advice of Lloyds so may be able to do something with that info.

This is all very scary to us and never for one moment thought we would end up in such a position just for trying to make a better future for our children.

Sad to say though, we are in no way the only ones.

Many thanks

Re selling the premises,

have you got an agent lined up to market it / sell on your behalf?

Any lender will want to see that you are acting seriously, and likely want progress reports etc if they do go along with this.

Be prepared to have to back up everything with copy letters / e-mails etc.

Without committing yourself to any expense, if you can get two or three agents to give you their opinions on its value,

realistic timescale for sale and local market conditions at the moment.

If possible get all that in writing (effectively you are asking them to pitch for an assignnment, and need a formal proposal from them).

Make sure they know and accept that the letter etc they submit may be shown to your bank etc.

Re payment to the agent who is appointed (if the bank go along with this),

this should be no sale,

no payment,

except perhaps something modest up front for marketing costs.

You might pay slightly more this way for a successful sale,

but you don't need more debts right now.

Most likely you'll be dealing with a banker in some far flung place who knows nothing of your local high street etc, and who really has one task

- to get the money back for the bank.

If you can show you have a good agent who understands his local market you might have a chance of getting a run at this.

We are currently not in a good place - we have had to close our business due to the recession and this has left us with a great deal of debt, mostly owed to the bank and secured against our business property and residental property. This is something we are trying to deal with but in the meantime I would like to ask a question concerning the terms of our loan if anyone can help.

We took out a secured loan to cover the cost of buying the business premises and business itself. However the loan was over 25 years and at the time I was 50 ! I queried this with my business banking manager at the time as I would still be paying the loan back when I am 75 years old!! I was dead against having the loan over such a long period but the BBM said it was to make it more affordable to me and he didn't think it likely that I would have the loan for that long anyway. I have all this in writing from the BBM.

Would I have any comeback with the bank over this. Isn't it some form of misselling as they were, inmy opinion, selling me something that I couldn't pay back. I don't suppose there will be anything I can do about it but it hits a nerve when banks seem to do what they like but then get nasty when small businesses lik mine go to the wall.

Any advice much appreciated.

Business Loan issue

My thoughts are that it isn't misspelling. If you can't afford it over 25 years, how would you afford it over a shorter period. You can sign up to something for 25 years, but pay it off early if you have the funds which is what I think he meant when he said he didn't think you would have it that long.

I seem to be posting on several different forums at the moment a relating to slightly different issues, but we have a lot going on at the moment.

Couple of questions concerning reclaiming bank charges from Lloyds Business Banking.

We took out a loan with Lloyds in order to buy a business which has subsequently failed. The loan was secured against the business premises and our residential premises. Currently we are trying to sell the business premises which will reduce the debt by around £100,000 (total debt around £150,000). Lloyds have given us 3 months in which to sell. One question is, over the couple of years we traded we had some huge bank charges (over 5K year end 2012) . Some of these were probably acceptable by most was bounced cheque and DD charges etc. I would like to make a case for getting some of these charges refunded as they undoubtedly contributed to the demise of our business. Due to the fact that we have had demands for the £150K loan which is still outstanding will it change the banks attitude to us if we try and claim against them. So far communication with them has been reasonably amicable so I don't want to upset the situation.

Also, what are the rules about charging interest and bounced payment fees when they are fully aware that the business is no longer trading. We no longer have access to our account as it has been taken on my Lloyds Wholesale Banking Department but they were continuing to attempt to take loan payments which were obviously going to bounce and therefore incurred considerable charges - surely this can't be allowed. They know we are no longer trading. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of interest they are charging each month. Far more than we will be able to afford to pay them in installments to reduce the loan outstanding.

One more point. When my partner took out the loan it was over 25 years (at Lloyds suggestion) even though my partner was 50 at the time so there was no way he was ever going to manage to pay it off. Is this a case o irresponsibe lending ??

Does anybody know if there is any point in attempting to reclaim bank charges from a sole trader business account.

We had a small retail business which we have had to close due to the pressure put on us by our bank - charges on top of charges, returned D/D charges, various admin fees - the list goes on.

Over an 18 month period we racked up about £6K in bank charges - some reasonable and expected, some not.

I have heard that banks are refunding less and less and that business accounts, even if a sole trader, are even less likely to have a successful claim.

Any advice or success stories much appreciated.

Just don't know which way to turn,

we are in a real mess and desparate for any advice.

We took out a loan with Lloyds for £150k to buy a business and premises (secured against the business premises with the second charge being against our home).

The business failed due to several reasons, so we closed November 2012.

Lloyds issued a demand for the £150K but agreed to give us 3 months in order to sell the premises ourselves.

There has been no interest in the premises and now the bank have written advising that they are to appoint an LPA to deal with the property.

We knew in our hearts that this is what would end up happening but now it's here we are devastated and just don't know what we should do.

We don't really know what an LPA does.

I assume they will sell the premises for a ridiculously low amount and then we will have an even bigger shortfall.

Will they then force the sale of our home, this is what we are so scared of.

We have three children and we just don't know what will happen if we loose the house as well.

A friend has advised us to seek legal advice but we just don't have that sort of money.

We are already in a DMP to pay off the debt we still have from the business.

All we ever wanted was to create a better future for our children and now it seems that we could loose everything.

there is a few forums about LPA on this site

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?239756-Mortgage-Express-Appointed-LPA-Receivers

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?384126-Lpa-receivers-power-of-sale

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134465-LPA-Receivers

Hi

I have posted concerning this subject recently but didn't get any responses so I am posting again as things have now become more urgent.

There are a few points.

We had a loan for approx. £150K with Lloyds.

This was to buy a business and business premises.

The business failed and Lloyds have now appointed an LPA to sell the premises (they did give us 3 months to sell/rent ourselves but we had no interest at all).

We had a letter from the LPA on 9th August.

It said nothing really, no introduction as to who they were or what their remit was

all they wanted was the keys to the premises.

We emailed back saying we wanted to delay proceedings as we did not know at this stage whether our loan agreement

said that Lloyds could appoint an LPA (we had intended getting a SAR for all the loan agreement documents).

We have now had a letter from them which was received today saying that,

as they hadn't heard from us,

they intend changing the locks and draining the boiler etc. TODAY.

We really don't know what to do.

I have read other Caggers saying that you shouldn't communicate with LPA's but we just don't know what our right are.

It would seem now though it may be too late and that they have changed the locks - how can they do that!

The other thing is,

the property is a downstairs retail outlet and an upstairs self contained residential flat.

Both premises have their own address.

The loan security was a first charge on the business premises and a second charge on our home.

On looking at the loan agreement documents we have noticed that the first charge is named as the flat address and the shop address isn't mentioned.

I realise this is some sort of typo/admin error but could this be to our advantage. And if so, what do we do about it?

We have been expecting this to happen for some time but now it's here we just don't know what to do.

Any advice would really be appreciated.

Hi JDB and sorry for the late reply.

There's some general advice here that applies to individuals and small businesses - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?557-Letter-for-an-application-for-consideration-for-hardship

The Lending Code may offer help re charges applied from March 2011 onwards. Your chances of success may be greater if you made the bank aware, or they could reasonably be expected to have been aware, of you financial struggles.

The BCOBs Regulations also compel the bank to treat you fairly and you may find useful leverage with these reg'ns.