Hi all,

I'm new to this but desperately need some advice please.

I had a long running overdraft with the NatWest for about £6k.

We got into some financial difficulty when my husband lost a lot of income when the recession hit.

We struggled on for a while but were literally living hand to mouth and yes we were bouncing some bills.

One thing led to another and we moved to a basic account leaving the Overdraft to address and pay later.

After reading some points on here I decided to look at their charges and to my astonishment they had charged us over £8k in the last 6 years.

One month alone they charged over £1,300 and we only had a £2k income!

I sent this off to the FOS and in the meantime received a letter from Shoosmiths Solicitors who were now chasing the debt.

I wrote to Shoosmith's saying we were disputing this and didn't hear anything for a while

(The FOS wanted more info. so it has dragged on a few months in fairness.

I got another letter from Shoosmith's saying I was ignoring them so I e-mailed the person named saying it was still with the FOS

Low and behold we have now received a court claim form each.

The direct quote is:

'The Defendent (D) held the accounts as listed below with the Claimant ©.

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below reamin outstanding.

£7692.28 (more charges added on)

C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

'Well - i know nothing about these things but I don't feel they have complied

and I really want to either defend this or counter-claim that this amount is all charges and unreasonable ones at that!

I don't know what to do or where to go as the OFT are still looking into it.

Sorry to ramble on and

thanks in advance for any help

Hi Bury and a warm welcome to CAG and the world of litigation.

You have 33 days in total to deal with stage of the summons.(5 deemed served so 28 remaining.(14 to acknowledge service) and if defending a further 14 to submit your defence.As this is a claim for Overdraft facility there will be very little documentation you can request or require as you appear to already have your statements.

Have you ever received a Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974? This is the termination and recall notice you should have receive pursuant to the Credit Consumer Act 1974.

Did you receive any Letter before Action from Shoos before receipt of the Summons?

Take time to look around the forums and familiarise yourself in particular the Nat West section and the success forums.

Regards

Andy

Thank you so much for your response.I definitely received a letter before action. I'm not sure about the other one though but it was so long ago I can't really remember.Natwest took so long 'looking into' my letter to them (before FOS) that they sent a £100 cheque for the inconvenience!No explanation about the extortionate charges though.I definitely do want to defend this as I am doubtful the FOS will come back with anything. My real question is whether to just defend or to counterclaim as well and also what do I say in my defence etc.when I've looked around the site people seem to be mentioning BCOBS so wonder whether that route is best.thanks again

Considering the amount of unfair charges involved I would Counter Claim and defend with BCOBS in addition.

Well that's what I thought too

but I really have no idea how to do this.

sorry to be coming across a bit thick but are there any standard replies etc I could put in my defence when submitting it.

Also do I send in my copy statements etc at that point?

I really am a newbie at all this so I am grateful for any help.

I just don't want to have to sit back and take this as I really believe I have been treated unfairly and for them to then sue me is just too much.

Thanks againThanks again

Don't worry about the defence and Counter C wording for now concentrate on preparing your spread sheet of your intended Counter Claim.Once you have prepared this and added interest...sit down you may be in for a shock.

I will request our wizard on the Site Team look in to assist with your spread sheet and what interest can be applied.

Keep your eye on the time line (33 days)

Regards

Andy

Don't worry about the defence and Counter C wording for now concentrate on preparing your spread sheet of your intended Counter Claim.Once you have prepared this and added interest...sit down you may be in for a shock.

I will request our wizard on the Site Team look in to assist with your spread sheet and what interest can be applied.

 

Keep your eye on the time line (33 days)

 

Regards

 

Andy

You are an absolute angel...thank-you

Hi

Dropping in as requested by Andyorch.

Just having a quick read of the posts....be right back.

OK

I believe that BCOBS came in to effect in November 2009 and gave a customer a right to action where they were treated unfairly. Prior to that I think it was the banking code.

Andyorch can advise on the legal bit.

As the account seems to have been left dormant then the charges and interest remain "notional" on the account as they haven't actually been paid over, they have just accumulated on the account. Accordingly I would use this spreadsheet.

CISheet v101.xls

Go through the statements of account and list each charge that has been levied on the account (not the interest) giving the date of the charge, a description of it and the amount. At the top, enter the interest rate they were charging you on the overdraft. That rate may have changed over time but should be shown somewhere on the account statements or in letters you should have received advising of rate changes. You may need to average the rate if it changed significantly over time.

When you have done that, post up the spreadsheet so we can have a look at it.

ims

Many thanks ims21

Ok Bury get quantifying...but as said prepare yourself for a shock if the figure is 8K net.

Regards

Andy

thank you so, so much.I will crack on with this tomorrow and post up.

Hi thereWell you were rignt it is quite a shock. I could have cried really going through it as it is so obvious to me that the charges on charges were just crippling us.Anyway, there are so many anomalies that I have just had to question mark some of the charges as they seem to be whatever the admin person on the day decided to add on.I have not included the interest charges they added monthly but it is clear to me that some months they threw us right into financial difficulty.The file is attached so I would appreciate any help with where I go from here.Thanks x

I think the file is readable now.

I did say prepare yourself Bury:madgrin:

I did say prepare yourself Bury:madgrin:

You did indeed. I'm surprised we have come out of this situation at all. Ah well, onwards and upwards despite the darned banks not because of them

Ok lets get ims21 to check it over and once done we can prepare a response.On the legal side you need to request a copy of the demand and the Facility letters vis a CPR 31.14.

Just bringing the P.O.C forward :-

'The Defendent (D) held the accounts as listed below with the Claimant ©.

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below reamin outstanding.

£7692.28 (more charges added on)

C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

Is the above verbatim Bury.... nothing else?

Ok lets get ims21 to check it over and once done we can prepare a response.On the legal side you need to request a copy of the demand and the Facility letters vis a CPR 31.14.

 

Just bringing the P.O.C forward :-

 

'The Defendent (D) held the accounts as listed below with the Claimant ©.

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below reamin outstanding.

 

£7692.28 (more charges added on)

 

C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

Is the above verbatim Bury.... nothing else?

HiObviously I have added the bit in brackets about more charges added on and after the very last paragraph it weirdly just says 'Number' underneath and nothing else.thanksx

CPR 31.14 Request

Dear Sir,

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement/ Overdraft Facility conformation and Terms and Conditions from that date. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

3 Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.CPR 15.5

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

yours faithfully

Send the above recorded delivery to their Sols and retain proof of postage.

Hi

Well done on the spreadie which looks fine to me.

You might want to "tidy up" the description columns and remove your comments/observations and keep it to what it actually is i.e. factual.

Other than that it looks good to me.

Thank you ims21.

Hi

 

Well done on the spreadie which looks fine to me.

 

You might want to "tidy up" the description columns and remove your comments/observations and keep it to what it actually is i.e. factual.

 

Other than that it looks good to me.

Oh thanks so much to you and Andy. Your help and support is overwhelming.I will tidy up the spreadsheet (was getting angrier with each line so I know what you mean about my comments!)I will also send the letter to the solicitors today.One other thing is that I haven't actually sent an acknowledgement to the court yet.Thanks again,Bury

" You have 33 days in total to deal with stage of the summons.(5 deemed served so 28 remaining.(14 to acknowledge service) and if defending a further 14 to submit your defence." post #2

Oh thanks. I'll crack on and acknowledge it then will I?

Depends what date is on the summons Bury... don't be in a rush.... plan your strategy..and don't forget 2 summons so all duplicate.BTW are the claim numbers the same?

Regards

Andy

Depends what date is on the summons Bury... don't be in a rush.... plan your strategy..and don't forget 2 summons so all duplicate.BTW are the claim numbers the same?

 

Regards

 

Andy

Right thanks. The claim numbers are the same and on the solicitors letter I have written on behalf of both of us with us both signing. Hope that it is correct.the date on the summons is 6th Novemberthanks again

Right thanks. The claim numbers are the same and on the solicitors letter I have written on behalf of both of us with us both signing. Hope that it is correct.the date on the summons is 6th Novemberthanks again

So you need to AoS at the latest next Friday