Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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  1. #1

    Default Friends Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    In helping a friend to deal with her debt problems, I wrote to her creditors requesting copies of consumer crediticon Agreements.

    Tesco responded with a photocopy of a signed agreement for an account that is in default and being (slowly) paid under a DMP.

    I have read posts on here about checking the validity of agreement (interest rates, minimum payments, etc) but much of the information seems very dated.
    So, my question is: 'Is there any advantage in checking the validity of a credit card CCAs now and, if so, does anyone have a link or advice to help me in making the check?'

    I ask because I am trying to achieve an affordable F&F for her.

    Thanks


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Tesco agreements are pretty much tied up nicely.. so there might be no mileage in you doing it for this particular debt.

    Was there any PPIicon or charges that could be reclaimed ?

    When was the agreement entered into ?

    Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running
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    Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

    Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library
    Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

    1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE
    2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries
    3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here
    4: Staying Calm About Debt Read Here
    5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read


    BCOBS

    2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you
    3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules
    4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly
    5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS



    Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

    PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Quote Originally Posted by citizenB View Post
    Tesco agreements are pretty much tied up nicely.. so there might be no mileage in you doing it for this particular debt.

    Was there any PPIicon or charges that could be reclaimed ?
    No PPI - other charges not known (statements only for the last 6 yearsicon) - the SARicon may show more when it eventually comes.


    When was the agreement entered into ?
    2002
    - were their CCAs generally up to scratch back then?


    Thanks


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    OH had a Tesco CC and yes, when he received the copy, it was one of the better ones. However, they had added PPIicon when it was definitely not a product he should have had.

    They were one of the better companies to deal with when approached about reduced payment plans.. stopped interest immediately, although they insisted on issuing a Default Notice first. They kep the payment plan in house and the person who was most approachable was (is) .. .


    Tesco Personal Finance
    Credit Card Operations
    PO Box 5747
    Southend on Sea
    SS1 9AJ

    Attention : DL Munn
    Recoveries Manager - Collections

    Hope that helps..



    Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running
    Click here to donatehttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ages/link3.gif through PayPal (opens in a new window)

    Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

    Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library
    Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

    1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE
    2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries
    3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here
    4: Staying Calm About Debt Read Here
    5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read


    BCOBS

    2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you
    3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules
    4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly
    5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS



    Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

    PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Thank you CitizenB. A name, particularly of someone approachable, is a great help.


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
    Follows
    0
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?



    Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running
    Click here to donatehttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ages/link3.gif through PayPal (opens in a new window)

    Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

    Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library
    Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

    1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE
    2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries
    3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here
    4: Staying Calm About Debt Read Here
    5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read


    BCOBS

    2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you
    3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules
    4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly
    5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS



    Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

    PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Here is a scan of the CCA sent by Tesco Bank.

    Please can anyone advise me if there are any omissions or discrepancies that would help me in negotiating a (low) F&F settlement?

    I notice it doesn't contain either APR or term - is this relevant on a credit card CCA?

    PDFicon Views: 20 Size: 420.2 KB">Tesco CCA - edited.PDFicon

    Advice appreciated.


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Hmm, that is different to OH's... do they make any reference to terms elsewhere ? There should be more than just that one page.. !

    Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running
    Click here to donatehttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ages/link3.gif through PayPal (opens in a new window)

    Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

    Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library
    Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

    1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE
    2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries
    3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here
    4: Staying Calm About Debt Read Here
    5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read


    BCOBS

    2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you
    3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules
    4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly
    5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS



    Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

    PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    I agree with citizenB, there should be more than that, and there's no reference to terms overleaf/attached/enclosed.

    Looks unenforceable to me.

    Rob


  10. #10

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Sorry, that is down to me. I should have mentioned that it came with a photocopied standard set of terms. Of course, I don't know if these were the terms applicable back in 2002.

    Here they are (scanned as two separate pages for easier reading):

    Also enclosed was a signed copy of her most recent statement.

    PDFicon Views: 9 Size: 651.0 KB">Tesco T&C.PDFicon


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    I've not had a proper examination of those terms, just a quick look so I won't comment on their contents.

    However, these must be an exact copy of the terms, if any, which were presented to your friend with the application at the time it was signed in order that it can be argued that they form part of the alleged agreement. Does she remember if that was so, or does she have a copy of the original tucked away somewhere?

    Rob


  12. #12

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Quote Originally Posted by robcag View Post
    I've not had a proper examination of those terms, just a quick look so I won't comment on their contents.

    However, these must be an exact copy of the terms, if any, which were presented to your friend with the application at the time it was signed in order that it can be argued that they form part of the alleged agreement. Does she remember if that was so, or does she have a copy of the original tucked away somewhere?

    Rob
    She has no recollection of having received any Terms and Conditions - she certainly has no record/copy of any.

    On re-reading the CCA I cannot find any reference to T&Cs (but my eyes are knackered). Presumably this is relevant to the enforcement of the agreement?
    Or am I missing something here?

    Thanks
    LTK


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Firstly, IMHO, it is highly unlikely the application and separate 'General Conditions' are linked, because;

    They have taken the trouble to describe where the sections referred to in section 8 (signature area) of the application can be found on the form. i.e. they refer to sections of the application headed "Your Information" and "Keeping You Informed" and tell you exactly where to find them on the sheet.

    They also say " ... Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms."; but they don't bother to say where those terms are so it can be assumed that they can only be referring to the contents of that application sheet. Why did they not say "... terms contained within the section headed 'General Conditions' "?

    If the documents are not linked then I'd say several prescribed terms are missing.

    Referring to the prescribed terms, I quote from elsewhere;


    The prescribed terms are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the consumer crediticon (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553), and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, a term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement, and a term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—
    1. Number of repayments;
    2. Amount of repayments;
    3. Frequency and timing of repayments;
    4. Dates of repayments;
    The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
    I think you are right that even if they argue the 2 documents are linked, they have failed to state the interest rate. I think they have also failed to state the credit limit or how it will be determined.

    Rob

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Tesco Credit Card CCA - is it valid?

    Right - how about a game of spot the errors?

    What can you see that may invalidate this CCA? To get it started how about....

    No reference to the T&Cs.
    No signature by the creditor.

    Over to you now....


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  15. #15

    Lightbulb Friends Tesco Credit Card CCA - advice sought please.

    As previously posted, I now have a copy of a CCA relating to a credit card taken out in 2002 (a friend's account).

    PDFicon Views: 20 Size: 420.2 KB">Tesco CCA - edited.PDFicon

    As you can see from the above, the quality is very poor - certainly not what I would expect if it is a 1st copy of a real agreement.

    I suspect it is either a copy of a copy of a copy or it is taken from a microfiche scan,

    I have already sent a SARicon to RBOS (with the numbers of this and other accounts) but that is still weeks away (and may not even include this Tesco account).

    Before I get into the complexities of if the CCA is enforceable, can anyone tell me if there is any way of determining if they do actually still have the original agreement?

    Thanks.


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Tesco CCA - advice sought please.

    This may well be a copy of the original agreement back in 2002 the app and agreement were often the same thing, the production of this together with proof of acceptance and useage of a credit facility may well lead a judge to conclude that an account existed and the debt subsists.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Tesco CCA - advice sought please.

    Hi Brig and thanks for the quick reply.

    My understanding was that, without the original signed CCA (as it is pre 2007), the debt would not be enforceable in court - am I wrong?


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Tesco CCA - advice sought please.

    as advised you need to becareful.

    its all verywell looking for a paperwork wriggle to get out of debts
    but if the debt has been serviced for several years
    it'd be a blind judge that agrees the debt is not yours.

    dx

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

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  19. #19

    Default Re: Tesco CCA - advice sought please.

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    as advised you need to becareful.

    its all verywell looking for a paperwork wriggle to get out of debts
    but if the debt has been serviced for several years
    it'd be a blind judge that agrees the debt is not yours.

    dx
    What a disappointing reply and attitude, particularly from a member of the site team.

    How about a bit less speculation and finger pointing then?

    At NO point have I said anything about avoiding debt here or saying it doesn't exist!

    Before ANYONE gets on a moral high-horse let me say I have recently made a Full and finalicon settlement offer on this debt which was been refused by the creditor.

    Does that sound like 'wriggling out' of anything to you?

    I am looking for 'negotiating tools' here.

    But of you can't or won't help, just say so, preferably without subjecting me to your moralising.

    HTH


    Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

    Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

    nec temere nec timide

    So far, all done free for friends:
    Cabot - F&F reduced debt by 7700 (70%)
    NatWest - PPI claim - 1,800
    NatWest - PPI claim - 6,200
    NatWest - PPI claim - 3,000
    Co-op Bank - PPI claim - 5,200
    Halifax - PPI claim - 2,800
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 1,900
    NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - 2,700
    NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - 13,400
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Tesco CCA - advice sought please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Let Them Knock View Post
    Hi Brig and thanks for the quick reply.

    My understanding was that, without the original signed CCA (as it is pre 2007), the debt would not be enforceable in court - am I wrong?
    A copy would suffice I think, there is a consierable amount of case law that has altered the perception of what is enforceable and what isn't.


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