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CCJ paid for 9 Years but has PPI on PPI Loans


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Hi all

 

I am a newbie here and have come here for some help and advice please on a CCJ.

 

History is:

Loan from Yorkshire Bank which included PPI (work in NHS so not required and told loan wouldn't be approved if not taken PPI) September 2002

total amount £23797 and £4.3 of this is the PPI amount.

 

After a divorce etc got into difficulty paying and defaulted on payments.

 

I ended up being taken to court and a CCJ agreed to a payment amount of £77.61 per month November 2003.

 

At the same time I took out a DMP and paid so much a month as could afford to pay all my debtors at the time and the CCJ amount.

 

I have been paying now for 9 years and in the next couple of months all my other debts will be cleared other than the CCJ amount of £77.61.

 

I still have around £16k to pay off this CCJ.

 

I thought my DMP amount I pay every month would reduce to just the £77.61 but have been told all my DMP money paid monthly (£202) will be going to the CCJ.

 

They say if I pay them direct they will realise I have spare cash and take me to court again to redetermine the repayment amount. Is this right?

 

The debt has been sold on and is now owned and collected by Marlin Financial Services.

Can they ask for more money from a CCJ that wasn't even raised by them?

 

I also have the £4.3k of PPI on the loan that I am still paying through the CCJ

can I still apply for a claim on the PPI refund is I have a CCJ on it?

 

Am I best going through a company to reclaim for me or doing it myself?

Do I go to Yorkshire Bank for it or to Marlin who now own the debt (I say own they just said the debt passed onto them and to now pay them direct?)

 

This debt has been passed from pillar to post over the 9 years since CCJ.

Marlin is the 3rd company.

 

Can I apply for the debt to be set aside or anything or am I just risking getting the monthly payment increased or the debt attached to my house as a CO?

 

This is all very new to me the legal side

 

as at the time I just accepted everything I had been told and paid what I was told to through the DMP.

 

I have paid for 9 years no questions asked and no problems but the increase in payments from the amount agreed in court to the full amount paid to my DMP is making me uncomfy!

 

I was hoping to finally having a little spare cash to pay for repairs on my house and for the bits and bobs that are falling in bits and costly to replace, now can't have!

 

Do I have any options and if I do what are they and how do I go about it?

 

Would I be better just shutting up and paying up despite the PPI and all the interest on the debt too?

 

Fearful of stirring up a load of hassle like it all was in the days before the DMP and getting everything all agreed for payment amounts.

 

Thanks for reading this far.

 

Cup of tea and cookies for those that get this far!!

 

:-D

 

Can anyone help??!

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Do you think Marlin know there's a CCJ in the history of this debt, have they ever mentioned it?

 

As Marlin are neither the claimant or first assignee I'd suspect that

1) they don't know its been to court and

2) The neccesary paperwork doesn't exist to prove entitlement in Marlins favour.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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Hi

 

I think you ought to claim the ppi back.

 

You will also get the interest the bank charged you plus 8% on top.

 

If your single premium was £4.5k you are going to be in for quite a refund.

 

Have a read of No.1 in my signature. It looks like you have the agreement...do you have the record of payments made?

 

ims

 

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Do you think Marlin know there's a CCJ in the history of this debt, have they ever mentioned it?

 

As Marlin are neither the claimant or first assignee I'd suspect that

1) they don't know its been to court and

2) The neccesary paperwork doesn't exist to prove entitlement in Marlins favour.

 

 

thats my exact thoughts too.

 

something not quite right here.

 

but on a side issue, all these debts by the DMP [which i hope is NOT a fee paing Co,]

did you checked they showed on your CRA file before you entered them into the plan?

 

so the CCJ was part of it? or it was just the original debt that went on the DMP?

 

you'ed be hard pushed to get the ccj set aside because of the ppi this long down the road.

 

have you ever had a payment statement on the actual ccj balance/

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi all and thank you for your replies, much appreciate the help.

 

I am new to all this as

 

I have just paid my money to CCCS for the past 9 years and left them to it until now

when all my debts are paid off in next few months other than the ccj debt,

hence me not wanting to increase the ccj payment.

 

CCCS say I have to pay full amount of £202 a month which will pay Marlin when the ccj agreed amount was £77.61.

I don't want to increase but CCCS say they can't support my reduced payment so will have to close the DMP

and pay Marlin direct who will then realise I have surplus funds and redetermine the ccj.

Hence my query re who owns the debt and who has title to the ccj.

 

I have a record of all payments made to Yorkshire bank and to all the debt companies who have handled or owned the debt (which I need to find out now)

I have copies of all statements via DMP and Marlin sent me a statement of balance when they took over and if I remember a statement every year of the balance.

 

The amount paid for PPI is the £4.2k so yes a large amount!

Am I better trying to claim myself of due to complication of this with the ccj etc would I be better letting a company do it for me?

If so which one can anyone recommend?

 

The whole debt of the loan, interest and PPI with Yorkshire bank went on the ccj and I have been paying it off.

I borrowed £14k and it came to £23.7k with the interest and the PPI. All this amount was on the ccj.

 

Do I contact Yorkshire bank re PPI or Marlin?

 

I think Marlin know there is a ccj on the debt but not sure?

Do I speak to them or will this just give them the heads up I am looking into things!

 

Sorry for all these bumpy questions and the fact I haven't a clue what I am doing but want to know the ins and outs before doing anything.

 

I have all the paperwork from the loan, the guys name who sorted the loan and all the paperwork from day one for all my debts and DMP. I don't throw anything away! Lol!

 

Thanks :-) x

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1st things 1st. Do not speak to them not now not ever everything in writing!!!

 

Secondly do not under any circumstances speak to them on the 'phone!.

 

Right now that's sorted I would suggest the first thing to do is establish exactly how Marlin came into possession of this account.

 

Yorkshire Bank got a CCj then sold the account to xxxx who then sold the account to Marlin. correct?

 

For Marlin to have purchased the rights to the account lawfully there has to be a chain of assignment, establishing this could be difficult.

Do you know exactly who has owned the judgment debt and when?

have you ever received notices of assignment eg we are marlin and we were assigned the rights to your ccj on xx/xx/xxxx?

 

I would try CCA'ing Marlin first and foremost. If they respond with a "we do not have a copy of your agreement and must refer to the OC " then it's likely they do not know about any ccj. If they respond with a "court judgment superceded the credit agreement" then they know.

Next step would be to SAR Marlin directly to see exactly what they do hold. You could SAr YB but they probably would plead it's out of time, depends when they sold the account to the second owner. SAR'ing the 2nd owner might prove beneficial, you'd be looking for an assignment to and from but each SAr costs £10.

 

My 2ps worth is ignore CCCS's "advice" as although in a way correct there is an inherent risk in Marlin taking you to Court for a redetermination ie you will have an opportunity to contest their right to collect handed to you on a plate and at their expense.

 

My spider senses tell me they wouldn't neccesarily pass muster in being able to prove a lawful chain of assignment but they'll likely do a lot of shouting and from what we watched on watchdog "pretending to be solicitors" prior to litigating which gives you time for a sneak peek at their cards via the sar(s).

 

Worst case scenario redetermination occurs ccj redetermined to £202 pm but no new ccj registered (make sure nothings showing on your credit files as the ccj should have dropped off and this is NOT an "arrangement to pay" as its a judgment debt) so worst case is they get the full amount that CCCS are "advising" you to pay voluntarily, there are other just as likely outcomes hich will be far more beneficial to you.

 

You are aware that CCCS are funded by the banks etc. aren't you, it often pays to be reminded of that fact when making a decision on whether to take advice from the industry funded dmps.

 

Drop the dmp company and then:

 

1) No phoning.

2) CCA to Marlin costs £1

3) SAR to Marlin costs £10 optional to SAR each owner, you're looking for the broken link.

4) Pay Marlin directly or don't pay them that's your choice.

5) If they don't like it then tough, let them scream and shout and threaten and see what happens.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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agreed

 

i'd drop cccs and not pay anything more

 

i cant really see the point of firing off any letters to anyone

 

they'll soon play their cards when they ewrite

they'll either fire off a std threat-o-gram [ignore]

or

directly and specifically mention the CCJ.

 

if that be the case, then you demand they prove right of assignment

 

pers i doubt you'll here anything more than a std threat -o-gram

 

as for the ppi

 

if you've not done so

 

time to get the reclaim going

 

follow link 1 below

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Dx I am not brave enough to stop paying! Hate things like this and people chasing for money scares me! Lol! I will start my claim for PPI this weekend.

 

I have just sat and sorted all the Yorkshire bank debt paperwork.

I have a letter dated 13 November 2008 from Yorkshire bank notice of assignment that the assignee is now Phoenix Recoveries UK Ltd S.a.r.l

- Potomac Recoveries on 26 September 2008 and that the assignee has appointed Marlin Financial to administer the account.

Received a couple of years statements from Phoenix Recoveries.

 

Then another notice of assignment from Marlin advising debt now owned by MCE Portfolio Ltd assigned by Phoenix Recoveries uk Ltd. have since received a years worth statement from MCE.

 

As I have the full track of assignments what is my next step? Do I still send a CCA letter?

 

I will be sorting all my letters etc for claiming the PPI and the CCA this weekend. Do I send the PPI to Yorkshire bank or to MCE who now own the debt?

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the ccj will succeed any requirement for a CCA

 

are you sure they know of the CCJ

 

i suspect they dont.

 

in all the letters SINCE the CCJ

 

has there EVER been mention of it by any DCA - i bet not!

 

the two co's you've now stated

are well known for spoofing people

 

and are bottom feeders on debts.

 

have you ANY evidence that the payment HAVE been coming off the actual debt?

i'e statements from the OC?

 

dont ever believe anything a dca says or writes

 

something smells here

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Dx I have statements from Phoenix and from Marlin and they run Oct to Oct every year.

 

There are 4 in total and I have been paying the CCJ for 9 years.

 

Never received statements from Yorkshire Bank.

 

In all the notices of assignment there is never any mention of paying CCJ or even that the debt is under a CCJ.

 

Just says t pay direct to them my monthly amount and not to anyone was paying previously.

 

I have never had mention of the ccj and never received statements from the OC (Yorkshire Bank) but have from Phoenix and Marlin.

 

Where are you going with this Dx thinking something not right as I can't see where its wrong as haven't a clue what happens in these cases. I have just paid! lol!

 

Shall I still do a CCA letter or shall I just send a SAR to Yorkshire Bank, Phoenix Recoveries (who has same address as Marlin) and to Marlin?

 

Need to start the PPI claim too.

 

Do I send this letter to Yorkshire Bank after the SAR or do I now send it to Marlin?

 

Sorry need step by step instructions as this is blowing my mind! :???:

 

Thanks :-)

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no bother.

just need to get your ducks inline and a wee bit more info.

 

yes get the SAR off to YB now for the PPI as a side issue

 

now

i'm gonna have a punt here

 

i need you to get a copy of your CRA file

 

see below

 

i bet none of your debts show

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have a copy of all the credit files I could get my hands on at the end of last year and none of them had any of the debts left on them.

 

Do I do the SAR to Yorkshire Bank first or do I do the PPI letter? Does the SAR prepare me t send the PPI letter or shall I just send both off to Yorkshire?

 

:-)

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then no-one can do anything to you.

 

sadly i think you were mostly cash-cowed in the first place .

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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All references to a defaulted debt must be removed from your credit files after 6 years has passed from date of default, whether paid off or not.

This is so that someone who continues paying something even after 6 years from default should not be at a disadvantage

to someone who pays nothing after default and ends up with a clean file after 6 years.

 

the same applies to CCJ's.

 

but.

 

i dont think any of your money paid has actually gone off any of your debts.

 

i'd bet my hat its all been clear profit for the dca's.

 

now as all your debts are off your cra they cant be put back either

 

so.............

 

i'd stop

 

you are not going to get into any trouble even if they do pull up the ccj

you just restart it.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have n clue about all the ins and outs of the debt laws etc but this is really baffling me.

 

I don't understand how, why or when a debt of £25k to Yorkshire Bank and a CCJ can just disappear?

 

What did YB d with the debt and what happenend to the CCJ?

 

I know they come off my CRA file after 6 years but I thought the debt was still active.

 

I certainly daren't stp paying, especially as I don't understand the ins and outs as to what has actually happened to defend my case when they come after me for the money.

 

Which I am sure they will.

 

I get statements off Marlin every year giving the balance and how much paid by the month but nothing from Yorkshire bank.

 

If you could explain fully the ins and outs of what you think has happened step by step or point me in the direction of an explanation then that would be great.

 

i may feels better about not paying if I understood why!

 

Do I need to request information from Yorkshire Bank as a starting point under a SAR?

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lets prove it to you then

 

cca marlin tomorrow and get that sar off to YB

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Been a few weeks since being here but now here with an update and what do I need to do next questions!

 

I sent a SAR to Yorkshire Bank 30 March 2012. I have received a reply dated 4 April 2012 which basically is a standard covers all and everyone reply stating 'we must advise that due to the passage of time since closure, we regret we are unable to supply any documentation as paperwork has been destroyed in accordance with the fifth data protection principle'

 

They have returned my postal order of £10 which they are calling a cheque in the letter so the letter seems just the standard letter to all they have replied with. how do I get my money back off the postal order?!

 

I haven't sent a CCA letter to Marlin yet as I went into hospital for an operation on 4 April which has put me off my feet and at my mum's for care for a good few weeks so wouldn't be at home or work to deal with the reply within 12 days plus 2 but sent the SAR due to the 40 days. Someone has fetched my post and the SAR as above has been returned within days and nothing done!

 

I sent my SAR to Yorkshire Bank and Clydesdale Bank replied is this normal/ok?

 

Do I reply to the SAR and say my account was a large CCJ so surely they have the record still open? Or shall I just go straight in for the PPI refund as thankfully I have a copy of the agreement and all the paperwork and all my statements from when I was with them even if they don't!

 

Do I send a SAR or CCA or both to Marlin once I am back up on my feet?

 

Any help on the next steps would be appreciated :-)

Edited by Spazter
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so thats been proved now

 

time to stop paying as advised earlier

 

you have been royally cash cowed.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks again Dx for your reply. Won't Marlin have all the files and data they need to continue me paying them?

 

They have evidence I have been paying so could they go to court with that?

 

I will send a SAR to Marlin when I get back on my feet and also get the PPI claim prepared for Yorkshire Bank. At least I have a copy of the loan paperwork etc even if they haven't!

 

Also what does cash cowed mean?!

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you've been paying a debt hat you had no need to pay.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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an no they cant go back to court

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

The debt has been assigned to Marlin so surely they can apply to court for me to pay whether YB have the paperwork or not? This is where I am losing the understanding. Marlin must have the legal right to collect as they have been assigned the debt and YB have sent me a letter saying assignee is Marlin?

 

If a debt collection company has been assigned the debt then surely they have legal rights as the OC had? Although Marlin have never mentioned the CCJ.

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i wouldn't just stop paying, there is a CCJ in place whatever the CRA shows and you have ample evidence of the chain of assignment;

 

if you stop paying the creditor can take action to enforce the debt such as bailiffs or applying for a charge and then sale of your property.

The creditor can at any time apply for a variation to the original order to change the payment amount so that advice is also totally incorrect.

 

implying that you need only pay for 6 years and then the CCJ is somehow satisfied, even when thousands of pounds are still owing, is entirely beyond me.

poss confused the CRA file with the right to enforce an unpaid CCJ but that is a very strange mistake to make.

 

I hope you see this message in good time to keep making the ordered payment to the creditor.

Edited by asokn
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