I parked my car in the Shoreham Pond Road car-park at 13.53

but did not have enough money to pay for 2 hours so paid for one hour and went in to my class.

Just under an hour later I exchanged a £5 note and went back to the same pay and display machine and purchased another ticket.

To my surprise the second ticket came out virtually (but not completely) identical to the previous one with the same end-time. (See photos of tickets)

It was not totally surprising that they were consecutive tickets because people all go in to classes at 2pm.

I doubt if it would be possible to purchase two tickets with identical time-stamps?

I put the second ticket with the first ticket on the dash, assuming that a traffic warden would see that I had paid more than I would have had to pay had I had the right change.

When I got back I found I had been given a PCN

I appealed this with NSL through the Adur web-site and they turned it down.

When the NTO arrived I appealed to Adur and they also rejected the appeal on the grounds that I didn't have a ticket up to the correct time

and that I was (anyway) guilty of meter feeding.

There is nothing on the machines to say that you may not purchase a second ticket to extend your time.

It is a long-stay car-park so you can purchase tickets for up to 8 hours.

There is nothing in The Adur District (Off-street parking places)(Civil enforcement and consolidation) Order 2011

http://www.adur.gov.uk/docs/parking/2011-off-street-parking-places/119800-final-order-2011.pdf to say that meter feeding is an offence.

I have attached a photo of the notice board.

It says you can get a list of the contraventions from the Adur Civic Centre but I went there today and you cannot.

They've never heard of the document.

A friend of mine was told by one of the traffic wardens a couple of weeks later that the particular pay-and-display machine had been playing up,

and it keeps being out of order.

I feel that, as I had tried my best to pay the right amount and that it was a faulty machine I should not have to pay the fine?

convert to pdf

dx

convert to pdf

 

dx

Hello, I'm sorry but I don't understand your answer. Do you wish me to put my original question complete with images into a PDF document?

to make your images zoomable and clear

convert them to pdf

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

or

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

.

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

Thanks, I will do that and get back to the forum.

You have no grounds for appeal, you had no valid ticket.

If the machine was faulty, you should have moved the car to another car park, purchased a ticket and taken the matter up elsewhere.

No valid ticket has very little defence.

Your only chance is to post up the PCN both sides and see if it has an error.

...If the machine was faulty, you should have moved the car to another car park, purchased a ticket and taken the matter up elsewhere...

Not so, from the PDF link in the first post:

Absence of ticket machine

47. If at the time when a vehicle is parked in a parking place during the charging

hours there is no working ticket machine at the parking place, or all the ticket

machines at that parking place carry notices placed upon them by a person

duly authorised by the Council indicating that they are out of order,

the driver

of that vehicle shall be exempt from the requirement of purchasing a pay and

display ticket

.

You may argue that the machine was working, but the 2 tickets clearly show that it wasn't working correctly.

The two tickets show that a total of £1 was paid, and if the OP didn't overstay £1's worth of parking, the car park operator has suffered no loss.

Here are all the documents attached in pdf. format

PCN.pdf

Tickets NSL.pdf

NTO.pdf

Tickets.pdf

Account for web-site.pdf

It also says in the first post that

40. Where no valid pay and display ticket can be obtained from a ticket machine

within a parking place, vehicles may be parked in a parking place but may not

be parked for longer than the maximum period of parking in that parking place

as specified in the Schedule.

Not so, from the PDF link in the first post:

 

It clearly states (emphasis mine) that if there is no working ticket machine you don't need a ticket.

 

You may argue that the machine was working, but the 2 tickets clearly show that it wasn't working correctly.

 

The two tickets show that a total of £1 was paid, and if the OP didn't overstay £1's worth of parking, the car park operator has suffered no loss.

No it does not, you are only reading the section you want to read.

What the OP has are two consecutive tickets, neither with an expiry time that gives a valid ticket for parking.

50 of the same ticket would not help.

No ticket for valid time = PCN.

No loss ? please do not confuse, a PPC with a local authority ticket, if this is not paid, or appealed via adjudication the next step will be bailiffs with a tow truck.

The OP needs to post up the elusive bit of evidence, the ticket !

ASAP please.

Advice will be issued further upon examination of the PCN ticket affixed to the car..

Tickets posted above as .pdf. I have shown both their photos and my photos. It was their machine which issued the faulty second ticket. I am going to put in a freedom of information request on a) the number of times that machine has shown to be faulty in the month before and up tp the the time I used it and b) a read out of all the tickets that afternoon.

NO THE PARKING TICKET !

The one the council stuck on your car informing you you had a Penalty Charge Notice

It also says in the first post that

 

40. Where no valid pay and display ticket can be obtained from a ticket machine

within a parking place, vehicles may be parked in a parking place but may not

be parked for longer than the maximum period of parking in that parking place

as specified in the Schedule.

So if no valid ticket can be obtained, then you can park for 8 hours (the maximum period of parking in that parking place) ?

...you are only reading the section you want to read...

How so ? Section 40 covers faulty tickets, section 47 covers faulty machines. Either section could apply in this case.

It is fortunate the OP has retained the original tickets, they are indisputable evidence of a fault with the machine.

The machine could have printed 2 tickets the first time (which is still a fault), hence the identical time stamp and consecutive serial numbers.

I am not confusing the PPC/LA ticket issue, but it is still evidence that the OP didn't try to avoid the charge and park for free. This needs appealing to the traffic penalty tribunal or higher.

Sorry .. all these things are confusing when you have not come across them before?

It is attached

Thank you for looking at it for me.

Penalty Charge Notice.pdf

Just under an hour later I exchanged a £5 note and went back to the same pay and display machine and purchased another ticket.

 

To my surprise the second ticket came out virtually (but not completely) identical to the previous one with the same end-time. (See photos of tickets)

The second ticket has the next sequential serial number on it which would mean no one else parked in the car park during the hour you left your car, how likely is that?

From the Councils point of view its possible you just got the second ticket from someone who had left the car park so I can't see why they would cancel it.

looking at the small picture of the tickets, it appeared to me that they have the same time stamp of 13:53:13, and a number '1' in the box with the £0.50, presumably a count of coins entered, but looking at the larger pics, it appears the tickets only have the hours and minutes shown, their is a small gap between the time and the number '131', which is a totally seperate number.

So as they only have a time stamp resolution of a minute, there could be several explanations, all of them bad news for the OP. The tickets could have been bought upto 59 seconds apart, the first ticket could have been left in the machine from a previous person and the OP bought the second one 59 seconds later.

Afraid their is no chance of appealing with regards to a faulty ticket machine. Remember occams razor, the simplest explanation is more likely to be correct. A faulty ticket machine is not the simplest explanation.

Others more knowledgeable might find errors with the PCN

Unfortunately, the PCN did leave a gap for appeal but as representations have been made about a faulty ticket machine it's shot the op in the foot .

Time observed are 15:02 and issued at 15:03

had this had been known before you made your first appeal, the old I was at the machine getting a ticket would have sufficed.

To have a gap of two minutes minus the printing and for them to have started bang on the minute, would not wash.

As you have made it clear to the council you were not, then thats that one gone.

The minimum the adjudicate will allow is 7 minutes observation to prove the person was not buying a ticket when the warden pounced.

Otherwise what is to stop them just writing them the second you get out of the car to go to the machine.

Return in one hour may be an offence but as no ticket was given for this they can not change it.

Not seeking advice prior to appeal has been your undoing and as I am aware of the facts, I can only advise the PCN was correctly served and to pay up.

Sorry.

The minimum the adjudicate will allow is 7 minutes observation to prove the person was not buying a ticket when the warden pounced.

Otherwise what is to stop them just writing them the second you get out of the car to go to the machine.

Complete load of tosh.

Thank you.

I did eventually win this when it went to tribunal though I didn't quite understand the reasons .. I think it was basically that the tribunal officer knew that I was telling the truth, and that I had paid enough to cover the time if the tickets were sequential?