Please help.

I signed on for the first time in 24 years after being made redundant back in July. I had no idea what I was doing and made it quite clear I needed help and advice when I went for my first appointment.

Apparently, in the many bits of paperwork I was given there was a specific order to send my CV in by a particular date but I didn't do this. I was under the impression I was waiting for another appointment to discuss my options and I would then take in my cv. With hindsight i should have chased this up but i'm a very busy Mum and just didn't get time, i have many more urgent things to attend to and assumed the jobcentre would contact me if they needed anything.

I sign on when i should and keep a detailed record of my job searches etc.

It was at my last signing that they noticed i hadn't sent my cv in and i was asked to return the next day, i assumed to discuss this and nothing more but it was actually an assessment. I explained to the seemingly sympathetic man that i had the found the initial appointment very confusing and must have misunderstood the directions given to me. I sent my cv in the next day.

I have a jobseekers agreement that does not specify a date for me to send my cv and if i was given a direction but failed to comply, why wasn't i contacted earlier? It's just a genuine mistake for goodness sake! The woman i had the first appointment with has been off ever since and doesn't return for another couple of weeks, otherwise i'd ask her to back me up.

So today I have received a letter dated 17th August (6 days to reach me??) informing me that my JSA will be stopped from 21st August to 3rd September. I'm so upset. Surely something as important as this should be discussed properly and notice given? Even with the JSA we were struggling to make ends meet so heaven only knows what we'll do for this couple of weeks. My husband is self employed but not earning anything at the moment due to a combination of lack of work and ill health.

We do get tax credits but this will barely cover our bills even after i've reduced them to the bare minimum. The child benefit will have to pay for food but we're a family of 5 including a toddler still in nappies so i'm seriously worried.

I know other people have asked similar questions and i've read a lot but i still can't figure out how to sort this out quickly enough. It's two of my children's birthdays coming up and i have a horrible feeling we're not going to have any money in time. I honestly could just cry...

Can anyone help?

Hello and welcome to CAG. I hope we can help you.

I understand the system being complicated, other people here have made mistakes too.

Hopefully our DWP guys will see this and have some advice for you.

My best, HB

You need to request a reconsideration of your sanction if you have any further information to add to your original statement.

You will not be reminded to forward things.

If you dont have any additional information to provide then you need to request an appeal against the decision stating reasons why you believe the decision is wrong.

Reconsiderations are usually decided within a couple of weeks but appeals take considerably longer (approx 6 months).

You can request hardship payments and this will be base on your household circumstances so there may be some payment that you can access pending the reconsideration of the sanction.

How exactly were you advised to forward your CV, was it verbally or a direction?

Apparently it was a direction but I don't remember clearly what happened that day. I only know I have a Jobseekers Agreement that was filled in at the time and the CV section isn't filled in.

Surely, the fact that I made it quite clear I was very confused by all the information given to me counts for something? I'm not unintelligent and I do have enough of an education to know that this meeting could have been easier. It went on for such a long time that the next customer was passed on to someone else so by the time I was leaving, I'd forgotten half of what was said!

A hardship payment is only a precentage of the full JSA, is this correct? If so, how on earth do we provide our family with even just the essentials??

The whole system is designed to be punitive. You're being punished for the depression. You should complain to to your MP.

I absolutely agree and I'm going to complain 'til i'm blue in the face - but I also have to think of a way of bringing money in immediately. This sanction brings us below the poverty line, how ridiculous is that?

And to top it all, the 0845 number is constantly busy... aaaaaargh!!!

Did you manage to get through to make the application for hardship?

It is so much harder to put things into type than if you can relay things face to face so please bear with me....

If the direction was in place what exactly were the reasons you failed to follow the direction? Being busy isn't a reason on it's own was there something else in addition to the normal routine of raising a family? (I don't mean that in a patronising way I also have a family so appreciate how time demanding and exhausting they are). Was there anything that physically stopped you from forwarding the CV via e-mail? (e.g server disruption, power cuts etc)

Have you requested the reconsideration including the additional information?

Yes this is long but gives the guidance for hardship and if you qualify for hardship payments or not, http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch35.pdf

I'm not 100% certain and I'm sure soeone else will correct me if it;s wrong but would you qualify for Income Based JSA as a family? If yes then hardship would be payable but if not then you may not receive any payment of hardship.

The whole system is designed to be punitive. You're being punished for the depression. You should complain to to your MP.

How do you come to that conclusion?

The system is certainly not punitive. It is only punitive when someone disregards a direction or fails to comply with what is required of them. Are you suggesting that the JC deal with this as 'just one of those things - never mind, just don't do it again'?

If you break a rule then there are consequences.

As for saying that the 'depression' is the root cause of why claimants do not comply with directions, you are clearly not understanding the position.

Why should the claimant get her MP involved? She has already stated "Apparently, in the many bits of paperwork I was given there was a specific order to send my CV in by a particular date but I didn't do this".

The only reason that the claimant finds herself in this situation is that she just didn't bother to send in her CV as requested.

Presumably you think that the MP should overide the JC's decision.

The consequences when the banks break the rules are we have to pay. That's what's behind all this. The poor have to pay to fund the rich lifestyles of the people who caused the crash in the first place. While they're all out buying farmland and guns, we're being starved of resources. When the second and much bigger crash comes, we're going to be in no position to survive while they'll be well-placed. The benefits system is supposed to serve the general public, instead it's used as a mechanism for setting them up to fail so they can be deprived of even more money.

The consequences when the banks break the rules are we have to pay. That's what's behind all this. The poor have to pay to fund the rich lifestyles of the people who caused the crash in the first place. While they're all out buying farmland and guns, we're being starved of resources. When the second and much bigger crash comes, we're going to be in no position to survive while they'll be well-placed. The benefits system is supposed to serve the general public, instead it's used as a mechanism for setting them up to fail so they can be deprived of even more money.

BNP member?

What has that got to do with the matter in hand, namely a sanction for failing to comply with a clear directive?

BNP member? Me? Whyever would you ask? And I go into detail about the banks because it's the background to all this sanctioning nonsense. Benefits under EU law are supposed to be ours to enjoy, all this conditional nonsense is part of the austerity drive and the reasoning behind that is if people are struggling just to survive they won't have time to be asking questions, very difficult, pointed and long overdue questions, about the function of banks in what we're encouraged to think of as our society. If the banks hadn't screwed up so badly, none of this would be happening. That's what it's got to do with it and we must never lose sight of that otherwise the deliberate distraction has worked.

BNP member? Me? Whyever would you ask? And I go into detail about the banks because it's the background to all this sanctioning nonsense. Benefits under EU law are supposed to be ours to enjoy, all this conditional nonsense is part of the austerity drive and the reasoning behind that is if people are struggling just to survive they won't have time to be asking questions, very difficult, pointed and long overdue questions, about the function of banks in what we're encouraged to think of as our society. If the banks hadn't screwed up so badly, none of this would be happening. That's what it's got to do with it and we must never lose sight of that otherwise the deliberate distraction has worked.

OK I'll bite just one more time.

The state of the country has nothing to do with our banks.

It all started in the States when some idiots decided it would be fun to offer mortgages, no questions asked, to people who clearly should never have been given one.

Then the American banks decided to off load this 'toxic debt' onto the financial market wrapped up with other debts that were 100% secure. Some banks in this country bought these debts and didn't bother to have a look at what had been wrapped up inside the package.

When America collapsed because of this 'toxic' debt our banks went with them. The only thing our banks were guilty of was not checking what was in the box - they just relied on the picture on the front of the box.

Additionally for years building upto the crash in this country we as a nation were living way beyond our means. Releasing equity out of the homes to subsidise a way of life.

It was only going to go one way - disaster. We borrowed ourselves into it thinking we were 'entitled' to a standard of living well beyond our station.

Don't put all of the blame on the banks - we borrowed the money that we couldn't ever afford to repay. We even had people taking out 100% mortgages of 5/7/9 times income - and were willing to do so by telling lies about the household income!!

Then what did we do - made ourselves bankrupt and walked away from it leaving the banks with a mountain of debt that they could not recover.

We only have ourselves to blame for the mess we are in.

Ah, you do know that banks don't make loans, right? The money that appears in your account if your applicatoin is successful is brand new money. Or credit if you'd like to call it that. More here http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/where-does-money-come-from-book/ and here too http://www.economania.co.uk/money-matters-bill-kruse.htm The whole system's bent,and it's the banks that bent it. This is the information age, and word of what's really going on is getting out. Banking reform will mean the banks lose their huge advantage over the rest of us of being able to create the stuff we all need to trade, for free too. They'd rather leave a scorched earth behind them than let that happen, hence Osborne's economic policies.

Not that the banks have anything to so with the original post, but sanctions were in existence prior to this economic downfall, so unfortunately the banks as much as they are to blame for poor decisions they are not responsible for imposing sanctions on JSA claims.

They existed in nothing like the volume that's being inflicted on claimants at the moment.

Ah, you do know that banks don't make loans, right? The money that appears in your account if your applicatoin is successful is brand new money. Or credit if you'd like to call it that. More here http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/where-does-money-come-from-book/ and here too http://www.economania.co.uk/money-matters-bill-kruse.htm The whole system's bent,and it's the banks that bent it. This is the information age, and word of what's really going on is getting out. Banking reform will mean the banks lose their huge advantage over the rest of us of being able to create the stuff we all need to trade, for free too. They'd rather leave a scorched earth behind them than let that happen, hence Osborne's economic policies.

I give up as this has absolutely nothing to do with the question posed by the OP.

I would suggest that you have a word with the Editor in Chief at Private Eye if you want to carry on this futile argument. Me, I have more important things to be doing.

OK I'll bite just one more time.

 

The state of the country has nothing to do with our banks.

 

It all started in the States when some idiots decided it would be fun to offer mortgages, no questions asked, to people who clearly should never have been given one.

 

Then the American banks decided to off load this 'toxic debt' onto the financial market wrapped up with other debts that were 100% secure. Some banks in this country bought these debts and didn't bother to have a look at what had been wrapped up inside the package.

 

When America collapsed because of this 'toxic' debt our banks went with them. The only thing our banks were guilty of was not checking what was in the box - they just relied on the picture on the front of the box.

 

Additionally for years building upto the crash in this country we as a nation were living way beyond our means. Releasing equity out of the homes to subsidise a way of life.

It was only going to go one way - disaster. We borrowed ourselves into it thinking we were 'entitled' to a standard of living well beyond our station.

 

Don't put all of the blame on the banks - we borrowed the money that we couldn't ever afford to repay. We even had people taking out 100% mortgages of 5/7/9 times income - and were willing to do so by telling lies about the household income!!

 

Then what did we do - made ourselves bankrupt and walked away from it leaving the banks with a mountain of debt that they could not recover.

We only have ourselves to blame for the mess we are in.

you really answered your own argument there, 'the banks here were guilty of not checking what was in the box' just as the original poster missed the date for returning her cv...difference is the banks were bailed out of this to the tune of billions, and the poster loses their benefit....if that is what you call justice, then the world is a bl**dy sad place

The difference is that the banks bought the debts. The poster wants money from the state.

The banks still owe the money to the government. You make it sound like we handed it to them on a plate FOC.

Irrespective, if you want benefits - you play by the rules. If you don't the money stops - simple!!

The banks bought debt on the assumption they could sell iton to someone dumber then them, the traditional greater fool, and have profit without responsibility. The poster wants money from the insurance scheme she's been enrolled in all her adult life, and quite right too. The point of the insurance system is twofold, 1 it proivides for people in time of need and 2 since the poor are provided for and so aren't out in the streets perpetually rioting those better off can enjoy their wealth in peace. It works for everyone. The govt remove benefits at everyone's peril.

I am afraid people like gregbythesea...just doesnt get it....he would be one of the first people bleating, if he had paid into an insurance all his life only to find when he went to claim, the insurance company had moved all the goalposts and told him that 'sorry you cant have all the money you were entitled to, we used it to go to the casino for a few nights out, unfortunately we lost, still I am sure you don't mind?' and he is still naive enough to believe that his money is safe with these gangsters

This thread is getting completely lost.

I don't get it? Of course I do. I don't care what the banks have done or continue to do. If the bankers receive millions in bonuses good luck to them.

This thread is all about someone who admits that they didn't comply with a JC directive.

If you don't play by the rules of JSA, the consequences are that your money will stop!

If you want the money than do as they tell you and don't argue about it.

Good grief it's not rocket science is it?

Insurance? you mean benefits? Yes I receive them, but unlike the OP I make sure that I don't rock the boat too far that causes me to lose the money! I have my own mini battles with the authorities but I let them win the war!

the fact is the poster made a genuine mistake, it wasnt like she turned down a job opportunity, didnt do job searches, etc, she simply overlooked sending in a cv by a certain date, it is hardly the crime of the century!!! the benefit system is now fraught with petty rules in order to revoke payment for benefits that some people who have paid in for many a year, are entitled to...and yes people should be given a 'second chance' especially for such as 'heinous crime' as missing a date!!! a lot of people who are losing their jobs, and are having to deal with the complexities of the benefit system are being unfairly treated, with benefit being removed for reasons that are absolutely petty

OK, could we end this hijack now please? And be civil to each other? The OP is asking to be advised, not scolded.

Sanctioning for failing to comply - great idea! Imagine how much we'd save in taxes from our shocking underhand government if we all did this. My husband and I have worked bloody hard all our adult lives and I'm claiming a tiny fraction back from the huge amounts we've paid in. I have no intention of being a dosser or playing the system, I am merely having a few months looking for the kind of job I can use my experience, otherwise, it will be wasted. My job involved helping children and young people overcome difficulties in their education, something that this government have no intention of supporting, so if i need to claim some of my money back whilst i continue to help them then i will.

I WAS asking for advice and information but not on WHY this happened, i'm well aware of what this government is doing as most of us are but getting angry about it will not help. Action will help but this is another matter...

My immediate situation remains the same but i'll be going to the CAB today, i just hope there's someone there who knows about real life and compassion.

Thank you to those who tried to help, it's appreciated.

Sanctioning for failing to comply - great idea! Imagine how much we'd save in taxes from our shocking underhand government if we all did this. My husband and I have worked bloody hard all our adult lives and I'm claiming a tiny fraction back from the huge amounts we've paid in. I have no intention of being a dosser or playing the system, I am merely having a few months looking for the kind of job I can use my experience, otherwise, it will be wasted. My job involved helping children and young people overcome difficulties in their education, something that this government have no intention of supporting, so if i need to claim some of my money back whilst i continue to help them then i will.

I WAS asking for advice and information but not on WHY this happened, i'm well aware of what this government is doing as most of us are but getting angry about it will not help. Action will help but this is another matter...

My immediate situation remains the same but i'll be going to the CAB today, i just hope there's someone there who knows about real life and compassion.

Thank you to those who tried to help, it's appreciated.

Has appealing against the decision been mentioned yet?

If not you can appeal against the sanction. You will have to show why you didn't comply illness, death in the family etc etc.

Putting on your appeal that you knew about it but didn't bother to do it or just simply forgot, will in my opinion not be well received.

"I was given there was a specific order to send my CV in by a particular date but I didn't do this".

I would mention as well, that there are other regulations that will come into play if that having the same attitude, something is not done within a 1 month period of being told to do it, the claim would be closed. Notwithstanding that the information may then be sent in after the 1 month period and after the closure of the claim, you will have no right to demand that the claim be re-opened. Your re-course would be to appeal to the Tribunal on the basis that the closure did not follow the rules of termination.

I've been there and done that and lost the case on the basis that 1 month is long enough to comply.

In my case the closure was backdated to the date of the original decision that awarded the benefit because the original decision made 6 months earlier was revised. Consequently I then received a demand for the 6 months worth of benefits that I had received but deemed now not to be due.

Additionally I had to make a new claim which took months to process and in all that time I was severely short of money.

All because 'I forgot all about the need to comply within the 1 month'. I did send the info in but it was 2 weeks too late.