A response received this afternoon after a complaint that, despite written request, and despite the law of the land, RBS refused to stop one of these RPA's. This has come from Stephen Hester's executive suite whatever that is.

"For Wonga to be able to reclaim re-occuring transactions they must have authority from you as their customer to debit your card account. You must have therefore provided Wonga with the necessary information to do this. Therefore, the situation is that the bank cannot stop these payments, and in most cases, regular payments can be stopped by the customer telling the company taking the payments. Therefore you will need to contact Wonga directly in order to cancel the payments. If you owe them money, they will claim from your account, and if you do not owe them money, they will not. Please be aware that you will still be responsible for any money you owe Wonga".

What next then chaps? And should I be letting other people see this, like Martin Lewis etc?

Well they are clearly wrong.

I don't suppose you sent them this did you?

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumerinformation/product_news/banking/know_your_rights/payments

Sounds like you may have a case against the bank if they did not honour your demand to cancel the CPA.

Others will no doubt be along with their thoughts.

I'd be inclined to escalate it above one of the drones, they have very limited [if any] competency.

Try the group secretariat office, copy the response you received and tell them you are prepared to offer them the opportunity to correct the misleading data. Generally pretty good at correcting mistakes, it is after all their n*ts on the line with the FSA if they get it wrong

From: Taylor, Aileen (Group Secretary) [email protected]

Aileen Taylor 07748******

Currently on maternity leave, returns November...... in her absence

Jan Cargill on all Board and Corporate Governance matters, Gary Stewart on all RBS Secretariat matters:

Jan Cargill - 0131 626 3860 ([email protected])

Gary Stewart - 0131 626 3957 ([email protected])

07826 91******

ims21, yes we have right from day one when all this kicked off. Have another letter telling us that actually Visa rules are higher than the law of the land.

Mikehawk, thank you very much for that, I'm going to escalate it tomorrow morning, will post back to let you know how we get on.

Its not just about this Wonga thing either, when dealing with the complaint they replied several times, and apparently sent gifts, to the wrong address. So, whereas my nephew hoped he could actually restore his bank account to safe use by resolving this matter, they have compromised his account further by giving all his details to the neighbours (who happen to be the alcoholics from hell). They don't seem to see the wrong in this however.

If you can show evidence that they have allowed transactions after the removal of your nephews authority you can of course demand the return of funds and any interest/charges applied to the account in respect of same.

Where that leaves the relationship between him and Wonga is a matter for your nephew [as party to contract], not the bank

When you escalate the issue, you should also include details of any apparent breaches of the DPA.

Assuming Gary acts correctly and confirms in writing the true status of CPA's, it would be helpful to others if you could post a copy of his correspondence [less identifiers]

Well, this afternoon I shall sit down and do just that. And then I'll post up the reply. We have proof of everything. If this guy comes back with the same old hoohah, then I guess its County Court time. I see that several of the banks on here now understand the law, so to help him I'll point out to him which banks those are.

Right now, I seem to have a collection of files in my bookcase, all little legal gripes, none of them are for me (thats a good thing I suppose) and my poor heads in a whirl. Out of all of them though, this one I am going to enjoy as I can see we are clearly in the right without a doubt.

Thanks for the input, and I'll keep everyone posted.

Well, this afternoon I shall sit down and do just that. And then I'll post up the reply. We have proof of everything. If this guy comes back with the same old hoohah, then I guess its County Court time. I see that several of the banks on here now understand the law, so to help him I'll point out to him which banks those are.

Right now, I seem to have a collection of files in my bookcase, all little legal gripes, none of them are for me (thats a good thing I suppose) and my poor heads in a whirl. Out of all of them though, this one I am going to enjoy as I can see we are clearly in the right without a doubt.

Thanks for the input, and I'll keep everyone posted.

I know it's difficult but try to temper the tone of your e-mail, you stand a greater chance of a reasoned and sensible response if you do. Tbh, I've found him to be a fairly affable chap who seems to respond well to polite questioning and good manners [guess his mum brought him up well, lol]. Plus, I need to have a chat with him tomorrow if you could try keep him in a good mood for another day or so

Oh I agree its ever so difficult, especially with e-mail etc. I read some of my posts on here and i shudder when i realise I've slipped a bit of local dialogue in! But with this sort of thing I generally keep to the point. LOL - I spent 26 years as a social housing officer, and oh was it hard when writing letters......so much easier to bang on the door and let them have both barrels, generally solved the problem as well!

Anyway I can see this ending up in court, so I know it has to be by the book.

Thanks ever so for your help, just getting cracking on it now.

Have another letter telling us that actually Visa rules are higher than the law of the land.

If that is the case, then I suggest we get Visa to remove the duty on car fuel.

Meant to post the following links this morning and..............forgot, RBS still a shambles me thinks

http://www.natwest.com/personal/credit-cards/g4/recurring-transactions.ashx#tab-section2

http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/credit-cards/g3/recurring-transactions.ashx

Ok, e-mail gone off. Do you know how long those two links have been in existence? I nearly choked when I saw the RBS one. Makes it all 10 x worse really.

Pretty galling when you think about it..... not a scooby how long they've been on the sites, came across them a while back when I was looking for something else.

When/if Gary replies he will be responding from board level, he's been seconded to Aileens group sec role in her absence...... can't imagine he's taken on quite the same personal liability that goes with the job though

You can find Aileen on the following Reuters link, should give you an indication of how far up you've just escalated your complaint

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=RBS.L&WTmodLOC=C4-Officers-5

Phil

Crikey! Still it had to be done really didn't it? Good job I kept it polite LOL. Well, lets just see what he has to say about it. I'll post up as soon as i get an answer.

Lol....... didn't want to put you off before you sent it

He's a personable fella, would think you'll get a polite response. Posted a couple of my e-mail exchanges with him on another thread if only to show others that RBS will enter into correspondence

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?355228-Nat-West-Customer-problems-after-their-recent-failures&p=3918728#post3918728

Phil

Oh for goodness sake: From Stephen hesters office again

"However I would like to clarify that Wonga claim that the payments are not actually recurring transactions and that is why the Bank is unable to stop the payments to Wonga. Therefore the Banks stance remains that you would need to contact Wonga to stop the payments. If you owe them money they will claim from your account and if you don't they will not."

This is after I replied to their first stupid reply pointing out the advice on their own website. (I am still waiting for the other guy to come back from holiday). So, now they admit that they could stop these payments if they were RPA's - however, Wonga say they are not so therefore they cannot possibly be and must be paid! Anyway FOS have just informed her that they are investigating, so she cannot now help any further.

So, I will see what happens next, but I keep wavering towards MCOL. Patience.

Do you think they let these people tie their own laces.

You have to look at the logic of its response, not a recurring authority ergo a single payment authority, ergo no authority.

Another Natwest/RBS group one here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?359900-CFO-drained-my-Natwest-account-Unauthorised-Debit-Card-Transactions-***Resolved***&p=3930997#post3930997

The bank here are acting as a third party in favour of a non-depositing client, and that is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

BTW don't forget to report this to the OFT, Wonga are under a sanction from them for being naughty and this might just make the OFT want to think again.

I still haven't heard back from this guy yet Mike, but then he's only been back 2 days! Nephew has had confirmation that FoS have called for his files from RBS, got a caseworker name and everything. I sent an e-mail back to Stephen Hesters office. Expressing our disappointment at their "investigation skills". Not rude, but I think it might be called "ascerbic" - is that the word I want for one of my "not so pleased e-mails"?! LOL (Well I can laugh can't I - its not my money!)

I will take this to court for the nephew if I have to, but I suppose we shall have to wait for the FoS to finish their bit, and that might well resolve it.

I'll post up as each thing happens.

Oh I forgot to say, this has irritated me so much that I have decided I was incredibly distressed and ashamed in Tesco's last month when my card was declined due to their massive computer glitch. They can give me a "GoGW" payment if they like.

He may have decided not to involve himself and reverted to protocol...... ignore and pass the buck to a lacky

Right, had an e-mail from our caseworker at FoS, seems very nice, explained the process fully again (had letter also). E-mailed him back to ask him if he would like me to make up a bundle of all the correspondence we have, and yes he wants us to do that. So that will go off in the post to him tomorrow.

Lets see what happens.

Good luck with this.

Thanks sillygirl. Quick update. Just taken a telephone call from a very nice gentleman from the executive office. He has agreed to refund the £180 and restore the account to how it was before this happened, take off any charges. Before he starts his investigation tomorrow morning. I have a direct telephone number for him, and I believe this may well now be resolved. I'm going to send him a package of all the correspondence that has been toing and froing so everyone knows where they stand and who said what etc.

I want to do my bit to ensure its not just us for whom it is resolved, so we shall be asking that it is put in writing to us that RBS now understand the law and these bloody RPA's. This guy himself says he is unsure of the situation but will now go and find out what has been going on.

Will keep you posted.

Some progress, finally