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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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car insurance refund gone missing


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Right, something very interesting to give you folks (well I find it interesting anyway)

 

I paid for a car insurance policy a full year upfront

 

I paid using my RBS card but I closed the account on 06-02-12, I then cancelled my car insurance and got a refund on the 26/02/12 (the insurance provider insisted on trying to refund to the bank card, although the account didn't exists they had to do it for money laundering purposes) which I understand as I work for the company that gave the refund

 

The bank accepted the refund and didn't bounce it back, so I approach the bank where the branch tried to locate the funds and got back saying I needed to speak to the insurers instead

 

I spoke to the insurers who then told me to speak to the bank (tossing and throwing between the two and tearing my hair out as you can imagine)

 

The Insurers also advised me to speak to Visa directly as they would most likely have the money and not RBS, so I spoke to Visa who confirmed they did provide my card but they have no access to funds etc, and that its my banking institute who should help me

 

I then put a complaint in to the bank and got a final written response a few days ago saying they cant do anything and that I again have to speak to my insurers

 

So, I complained against the company I work for and also now have a final written response saying the bank accepted the funds and also been provided with a refund receipt from the insurer

 

Who has my money and how can I get it back?

 

Its been 2 months now and I am still out of pocket £500

Train hard...Fight easy

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Right, something very interesting to give you folks (well I find it interesting anyway)

 

I paid for a car insurance policy a full year upfront

 

I paid using my RBS card but I closed the account on 06-02-12, I then cancelled my car insurance and got a refund on the 26/02/12 (the insurance provider insisted on trying to refund to the bank card, although the account didn't exists they had to do it for money laundering purposes) which I understand as I work for the company that gave the refund

 

The bank accepted the refund and didn't bounce it back, so I approach the bank where the branch tried to locate the funds and got back saying I needed to speak to the insurers instead

 

I spoke to the insurers who then told me to speak to the bank (tossing and throwing between the two and tearing my hair out as you can imagine)

 

The Insurers also advised me to speak to Visa directly as they would most likely have the money and not RBS, so I spoke to Visa who confirmed they did provide my card but they have no access to funds etc, and that its my banking institute who should help me

 

I then put a complaint in to the bank and got a final written response a few days ago saying they cant do anything and that I again have to speak to my insurers

 

So, I complained against the company I work for and also now have a final written response saying the bank accepted the funds and also been provided with a refund receipt from the insurer

 

Who has my money and how can I get it back?

 

Its been 2 months now and I am still out of pocket £500

Train hard...Fight easy

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Thanks for the replies - Its was a Visa Debit

 

Im just confused how the banks are saying I need to claim back from the insurer, the insurer is saying visa, and Visa are saying RBS - Literally a complete circle of mixed communication

Train hard...Fight easy

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The insurers have a duty to repay you - your contract was with them. For once the bank is right - as its not really anything to do with them as you are no longer their customer. Why waste resources upon you?

 

Ask the insurers to send you a cheque, as you have no relationship with that bank any longer, and so will be unable to receive payment via a closed account.

 

The insurers will be stroppy - saying you are already repaid. The money laundering regs are to stop money laundering, not to stop valid repayments. Be prepared for some equally inane implied application of the law such as "its against data protection law".

 

It will end in your advising them you are about to issue a LBA and charge them for your time they are wasting, as a court will make them pay you without any money laundering concerns.

 

Then they will pay you.

Edited by Bang!
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Thanks Bang, thats the other thing I want to be careful with, I work for the insurance company too lol

 

Everything you have said has been taken on board though and will certainly look to see what I can do about all this

 

the only problem is the insurer has given me a printed form with an ARN number as proof the bank accepted the reund, how does that stand with the insurer still owing the funds?

Train hard...Fight easy

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The onus is still with the insurer, you haven't received the monies.

 

The insurer will have to argue the toss with the bank as the bank haven't fullfilled their part of the transaction by refunding you.

 

£10 to a penny that money will be found in the 'dormant a/c fund'. All banks have an account where any monies going through the BACs system which fail to reach the intended a/c are transferred into such a fund.

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All calls with the insurer are recorded

 

during the call with the manager I made him aware the bank account no longer existed, his reply was he has to attempt to refund the card used to pay for the insurance first for money laundering purposes, if the bank reject the payment they will then arrange to pay me another way (i,e cheque)

 

The payment wasnt rejected and thats where I am at with it all at the moment

 

As I mentioned I have also received final written responses from both the insurer and bank regarding the matter

Train hard...Fight easy

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Given the added complication of perhaps not wanting to upset your employer with threats of court, is there someone senior within your part of the company that might have a word on your behalf?

 

Might it be worth speaking to the FOS on the phone so you can go back to whoever should be refunding you and say 'The FOS said .....'

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Sorry but this is becoming a bit silly. I have worked within Insurance accounts departments dealing with this type of issue, on more occasions than one would wish to.

 

All that needs to be done is to make a complaint to the Insurers accounts department that handle the payments. They will look at all the entries and they should be able to find out what has happened quite quickly.

 

The trouble is that many companies customer service staff are not trained in accounts. So when you speak to them, you get passed back and forward, with no answer. You need to get past the frontline staff and deal with the staff that actually administer the accounts.

We could do with some help from you.

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I have spoken directly to accounts too - In my final written response from the insurer they sent me this:

 

photo.jpg

 

According to my accounts department, this is enough for them to wipe their hands with the issue and advise me to change the bank

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Ok that just shows the refund was sent. What it does not confirm is whether the bank sent it back, as they had no account to pay the money into.

 

My understanding is that a bank will hold a credit for up to 48 hours while they decide what they need to do with it. If at the end of 48 hours, they don't credit the money to an account, they will send it back to the originator. The Insurers may not have received this back against your policy account details and it will be sat on some suspense account waiting to be dealt with.

 

Check with the bank, what they did with the refund. If they did send it back to the originator, ask them to confirm when they did this and is there any reference which will help the originator trace the refund.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bank literally have no idea about anything of this transaction (so they say)

 

They said as the account is closed there is 100% nothing they can do to trace anything pending or completed

 

So they say in their final written response anyway

 

Stressed.com

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My point entirely. Take your evidence into a branch. Raise a FORMAL COMPLAINT. They have accepted funds against a closed account instead of returning it. Rather than play letter ping pong a face-to-face is in order. The staff are usually pretty helpful. any branch can help you. Insist they raise a formal complaint with you there, they can show you what's on the screen.

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The bank literally have no idea about anything of this transaction (so they say)

 

They said as the account is closed there is 100% nothing they can do to trace anything pending or completed

 

So they say in their final written response anyway

 

Stressed.com

 

From experience 99 times out of 100, it is the Insurers that are sat on the money.

 

Banks these days are so strict with their accounting, that they would not hang on to the money. The bank staff may not be able to see the refund entry, if the banks systems have automatically returned the refund to the Insurers.

 

But do post back, when you have found the money.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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I will keep you all posted

 

Would be nice to see if anyone else had experienced something similar before and what their outcome was

 

I have dealt with countless numbers of similar cases and most of the time, I have found the money back on an account at the Insurers. Occasionally the bank had applied it to some account, waiting for the item to be looked at.

 

I don't know what systems your Insurers use, but with many IT systems they can perform a search using various criteria. They may be able to put a date range in and the sum of £488.19 to see what transactions debits and credits are showing for that amount. Doing this can also reveal whether the sum of £488.19 did come back and where the money had been put. So if a mistake had been made applying the refund to the wrong record, this would be picked up.

 

In my experience Insurers accounts departments have a book with all the contact telephone numbers for all the banks/building societies. We had to phone various banks on a regular basis to track down entries, so we could go back to a customer to find out what had happened in similar situations. Sometimes there was just a delay in the money coming back or there was some other issue. But it did not take very long to find out. Taking 2 months and then not being able to explain is a joke. In that situation, the Insurers are obliged to refund you the money, if you can evidence that you have not received the refund. Speak to the Insurers Customer Service Manager and explain that you don't want to involve the FOS, but they are leaving you with no alternative.

 

Which Insurers are you with ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Thanks again for the reply,

 

I cant mention the insurers name as I work for them - Its company policy not to brand them in a bad way etc, so to mention them would put my position on the line

 

On Monday, I will have another chat with them and see what I can do

Train hard...Fight easy

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lol, loving it Bang :)

 

Best not to go that route though :p

 

You might want to remove your post with the Barclaycard statement showing the refund, if you do not want to be identified from the post. ( Dave ?) That is, if you have used your real name. Just a tip, but if you want to remain anonymous, don't use your real name, when using photobucket.

 

Another point, is that the FSA expect Banks/Insurers to have proper accounting processes. If they can't find nearly £500, this might worry the FSA enough for them to want to carry out an urgent inspection.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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