Hi

My situation is this.

Currently on incapacity benefit.

Got a form to fill in late nov for an assessment, sent it off mid december.

Heard nothing for 2 months.

Got a letter early last saturday morning telling me I had missed my assessment and ignored a follow up letter, the assessment was 13 jan and the followup letter sent 16 jan. This letter was dated 15 february. So it took them a month to action what happened. My money will be cutoff 15 march.

This letter was already opened by someone else and came through my letterbox at 6am, it wasnt psoted by the postman. It had the wrong postcode on.

I have since rang up the hotlines and for told to send a written explanation for why I didnt attend, they point blank refuse to sort it out over the phone, they also refuse to let me speak to a decision maker. They sent me a self addressed envelope which came fast and I sent my letter back 2 days ago recorded delivery.

According to royal mail its still stuck in their system, although I have read sometimes it gets delivered but the status doesnt update. I rang again and they confirmed its not arrived and then also told me I can expect a 5 day delay for it to go through their sorting system, apparently all post goes to one place instead of directly to the relevant department.

So basically.

Through no fault of my own I have a cutoff date for my benefits.

No phone appeals are accepted.

Cannot talk directly to a decision maker.

The whole system is totally reliant on the post system doing its job.

I have 3 weeks to resolve the problem, 5 days will be lost to sorting delays and thats hoping whoever does the sorting forwards it to the right place. Further time be lost on royal mail delays.

From here it looks like the system is designed to make it diffilcult to contact a decision maker and appeal a decision.

So my questions are if ok.

Why are decison makers shielded from the public? I expect a lot of issues can be resolved very quickly over the phone.

Can a letter be faxed directly to them bypassing royal mail?

Can a letter be taken to a job centre and they fax whilst I wait bypassing royal mail?

Can someone at a local job centre overturn the decision?

Is there a time limit to do an appeal? the letter says 1 month after reconsideration, what happens if the reconsideration takes a long time eg due to my letter getting lost in the post.

I am considering at the moment sending a 2nd letter with special delivery or going to the job centre refusing to leave until someone has either looked at my case or faxed it directly to the right department (not sorting centre). Or extending the pitiful 3 week cutoff date.

Thanks

If you can show good reason why you didnt attend the medical and the decison maker accepts this reason then you will stay on IB for now and the process will begin again..

You have to appeal the decision to close your IB because of your non attendance to the medical but you have to show reasons why you didnt attend the ESA medical

You can make an appointment through the contact centre at your local jobcentre to fax your appeal through to the section.

Or you can ring ask for a call back and get the fax number this way. if you have access to a fax you can send it yourself.

then ring and get someone to ring you back to confirm arrival...

the decision is made by the Aberdeen Office

Post gets opened at the local sorting office and then gets sent to the BDC... They never open their own post

do you think not getting a letter is good reason?

in a normal court of law I would have to be proven guilty, it sounds like I have to prove myself innocent.

They refused to give me the fax number, it seems any method of directly contacting the decision makers office is been kept at arms length. So now I have made an appointment next tuesday at the job centre to take a 2nd letter in to be faxed, luckily I made 2 photocopies of the letter with the wrong postcode. However getting there is going to be diffilcult with my illness.

I think I am interested in details of this sorting office as well as to me there seems to be breaches of the data protection act happening as well?

It took them almost 4 weeks from the 2nd letter I didnt get to them actioning my benefit cancellation 16jan to 15feb. However I need them to action my letter in under 3 weeks with no way of me ringing them up directly to hurry them up.

Noone will tell me why there is no contact number for them, also why they dont accept email.

Also I only sent a letter and not a full appeal form, I am worried as well what will happn if they take a very long time to respond and I then exit the appeal time limit window.

Have you changed address or have trouble with your post ?

when I stated that post gets opened at the sorting office I didnt mean by the postman literally. You were concerned that you couldnt track a recorded delivery this is why.

packages and

letters going to goverment department cant go there directly just in case there is something in there that shouldnt be.....

dont worry a letter is good as a GL24...

I think you will be ok

Nope my address hasnt changed, and other post seems to be arriving fine, bills etc.

I am worried as when I rang monday they sent me a envelope which came tuesday and they try to use that as proof to say I recieved their other post ok.

Basically I got the form to fill in and returned it mid december.

Then nothing at all until saturday morning with this preopened letter stating I missed my assessment.

So its a situation where they simply have to believe my word if they reverse the decision. That letter did have the wrong postcode but they told me the postcode is correct on their systems and atos systems.

and what do you mean cant go to government department directly? they think I will put a bomb in a flat envelope or something?

This really could be fixed by a 1 minute phone call to the decision maker. But now I have to wait probably weeks for my letter to be processed with only 3 weeks until cutoff point.

Post is always sent to a Mail Opening Unit. Yes, for security and also to try and ensure post is sent to the correct office. They must receive hundreds if not thousands of letters everyday - one mail opening unit can take post for 3/4 benefit centres and loads of jobcentre in the area. It does take time.

You can in theory get a DM to call you back, but as you have found it can be difficult. Your situation is not uncommon - a DM will usually assume that letters were sent on time and to the correct place. They may assume that you have just ignored it and are now trying to avoid your benefit stopping by playing the system - I'm not saying you are - but plenty of people do. So if you can send a copy of the letter showing the wrong postcode then you will undoubtably get the decision reversed in your favour.

When you say 3 weeks isnt a lot - you are actually quite fortunate that you have time to sort this out before your benefit stops - people currently on ESA are just written to and the benefit stops straight away - often left without money for a couple of weeks until its sorted.

If you can show good reason why you didnt attend the medical and the decison maker accepts this reason then you will stay on IB for now and the process will begin again..

You have to appeal the decision to close your IB because of your non attendance to the medical but you have to show reasons why you didnt attend the ESA medical

You can make an appointment through the contact centre at your local jobcentre to fax your appeal through to the section.

Or you can ring ask for a call back and get the fax number this way. if you have access to a fax you can send it yourself.

then ring and get someone to ring you back to confirm arrival...

the decision is made by the Aberdeen Office

 

Post gets opened at the local sorting office and then gets sent to the BDC... They never open their own post

its worth noting that Aberdeen only deal with people who are based in Wales. there are various benefit centre around the country...so it depends where you live...

If the letter received on Saturday has the wrong postcode and the letter is not handwritten, then a system clearly has the wrong address on it for you.

someone had opened that letter, and posted it through your box it wouldnt be send out like tha

So my questions are if ok.

Why are decison makers shielded from the public? I expect a lot of issues can be resolved very quickly over the phone.

They dont take incoming calls, they can ring a customer for more details if necessary

Can a letter be faxed directly to them bypassing royal mail?

yes you can make an appointment through the contact centre to fax

Can a letter be taken to a job centre and they fax whilst I wait bypassing royal mail?

yes again through an appointment then it will go in the internal mail

Can someone at a local job centre overturn the decision?

No

Is there a time limit to do an appeal? the letter says 1 month after reconsideration, what happens if the reconsideration takes a long time eg due to my letter getting lost in the post.

It can be extended

its worth noting that Aberdeen only deal with people who are based in Wales. there are various benefit centre around the country...so it depends where you live...

thanks Rover

worried33

Did you return the ESA50 to ATOS or DWP ?

It has not been know for ATOS to loose or mislay ESA50,you should double check with the ATOS office to see if they ever got the form ?

I would contact your MP and ask them for help http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/

They got the ESA50 evidenced by the fact an assessment appointment was made.

Sadly I still have no valud reason why DM's dont take incoming calls.

The letter was typed not handwritten.

What would happen if I had no way to post a latter or no way to get to a job centre?

Large companies have mail addressed directly to the right department.

Extremely frustrating that a backwards inefficent DWP has caused me a living nightmare

thank you for the replies so far, apologies if I dont come across as grateful.

Decision Makers dont take incoming calls as there job is to make decisions - not answer general queries. If they had a direct number they would be inundated with calls from people that they probably wouldnt be able to help.

They can take reasons from you over the phone as to why you didn't attend the appointment- you just need to ask for the benefit centre staff to call you back.

Ok so on monday when I ring the call centre I can ask specifically for "benefit centre staff" to call me back.

I asked 3 times this week to speak to a decision maker and was told every time I had to do in writing,

So to verify, they refused to accept my reasoning over the phone.

Also to me if a decision maker cant be bothered to ring a claimant before just cutting off their money they not doing their job right. That letter I got really should have gave me a way to ring them back to state my reason. I am not suggesting DM's should be in the call centre answering generic calls but rather they should be available to answer decision related calls.

They got the ESA50 evidenced by the fact an assessment appointment was made.

 

Sadly I still have no valud reason why DM's dont take incoming calls.

 

The letter was typed not handwritten.

 

What would happen if I had no way to post a latter or no way to get to a job centre ?

 

Large companies have mail addressed directly to the right department.

 

Extremely frustrating that a backwards inefficent DWP has caused me a living nightmare

 

thank you for the replies so far, apologies if I dont come across as grateful.

Sorry i miss read your 1st thread.

As people have stated,you cant speak to a DM directly.............

You also need to think what are you going from 15/03/2012 for money,if a DM does not change there ordinal decision !

From 15 march I wil have no money, my sister would have to take me in.

Here is an update, I plan to contact the press.

As said earlier I was told over the phone ATOS had the correct postcode, I also provided a copy of the letter with the wrong postcode to the DWP.

Given the barriers I came across which I felt were designed to make it hard to appeal this morning I visited my MPs office.

They have a direct line to the DM department and rangon my behalf (They had same evidence as I have many copies).

They said would ring back later so I went home and the MP office said would ring me back with update.

Hour ago I got the update, here is the shocking part.

1 - My decision was NOT reversed, reason, I missed medical appointment, no reference made to the letter not arriving and evidence I supplied.

2 - As My MP had the evidence the reason was rejected by the MP, however the DWP refused to also back down, argument I was told lasted for 20 minutes.

3 - My MP had to ask repeatedly in the call for them to check the postcode on the ATOS database, they kept refusing again and again, until they eventually backed down.

4 - The postcode has been revealed to be a 3rd postcode different to my correct postcode and the one on the letter.

5 - My MP then asked why did they turn me down without checking the database, was told its apparently a common tactic, my MP proceeded to tell them any sane person wouldnt deliberatly skip a medical thinking they would keep their benefit and she will be writing to the head of the DWP regarding the matter, DM refused to give full name out over the phone as possible disciplinary action.

6 - With the evidence and the admittance the database postcode is wrong they still refuse to change the decision. MP isnt lying down and said will drive down to the office if needed.

7 - MP will be faxing my evidence (they asked for it even tho I sent them the same document) and the situation will continue tommorow.

So whats clearly happened is now I got confirmation the postcode was wrong is at least 3 letters were sent to someone else's address, the appointment letter, the reminder letter and the letter telling me my benefit had stopped. The 3rd letter was posted to me manually by the person who got it. If that 3rd letter wasnt passed on I would not have been aware until my money stopped which was 3.5 weeks after the decision made, barely inside the 4 week appeal limit.

The DWP are on a law to themselves even with strong evidence they think they can just do what they want.

I have now lost all trust in them and feel I got picked out as I am single male with no kids, they need to get the claimants down by whatever means necessary it seems.

head feels like its about to explode.

Same thing happened to me in November, they sent me a letter mid October apparantly asking for statements for my Income Support Review.

I didn't receive it and first I knew was when i checked bank mid November as wondered why bank had said I was overdrawn and no payment had been made.

I phoned to see why and was told I had not replied to a letter so my money was stopped. After not replying to one letter. Think they could try and phone or something before stopping money. Told them had not received letter and they said well it was sent so that is why you have no money. send statements in and we can restart your payments. Did that but two missed payments again before before they restarted money, then asked if I wanted a giro sending. I said no thanks that might go missing my payments go in bank and that is how I want paying.

As it happens next door house is empty and has been for a while. Just before Xmas owner came to check on house, its a rental, and lo and behold he had a letter for me. The missing one!

Postie mis delivered. Not DWP fault that but they did not send a chase up letter before stopping payments, i would probably have got that one as very rare i have mail problems, probably postie rushing with xmas post. So left me without that money for a month. was backdated but annoying so close to Xmas when you need it most. They paid me payments I had missed on 22nd Dec.

Defenitly they should phone in any situation where the reason is non response.

At least in your case they reinstated tho, however the time it took I agree was unacceptable.

With me it seems they on a mission and I would love to know why.

In your case if it was notifying you of an important assessment you would have thought a courtesy call couple of days before to make sure you knew and were going.

They are supposed to be there to help us after all not hinder.

I can only guess but my guess is someone not turning up is a jackpot for them, easy one to strike off the list.

From 15 march I wil have no money, my sister would have to take me in.

Hi worried33.

If you are receiving housing benefit, this is not dependant on your being in receipt of another benefit. You would need to contact the local authority who will re-assess your housing benefit based upon your income and capital (or lack thereof). You should also be able to claim crisis loans as alignments to a new ESA claim - if it gets that far. It's not the situation I would like for you, ideally your claim would be reinstated and a new WCA arranged but if it comes to it, those are the sort of things you can do.

Hopefully your MP will have more positive news for you tomorrow. Let us know and we will provide further advice where we can.

thanks Erika, thats something I can cling on to.

I feel very down and possibly suicidal as my sister is only just getting her life back together in a new relationship and was thinking of having her partner move in with her soon, me moving in would cause chaos in her life.

Ok no change.

Basically the DWP have changed their tune saying the ATOS postcode is correct, my MP agrees thats very suspicous and probably a cover up, however she also said if it wasnt a cover up she completely disagrees on a one strike you out policy and isnt happy with their response.

She is taking it higher up but told me not to rely on what she is doing and reclaim when this runs out. She has agreed to be a witness to the events and will sign a letter to help me on any appeal, but I have read here I dont even have the right to appeal this because its a missed medical? So the DWP are bypassing normal legal rights?

You do have the right to appeal, but no right to payment of the benefit pending the appeal outcome. Payment of the benefit pending an ESA appeal outcome is only made where the assessment had been attended and the claimant has not attained enough points. You can put a new claim in whilst you are waiting for the outcome of the appeal but unfortunately they will not pay any money on the new claim until an assessment has been attended - unless you are claiming for a new condition or the original condition is significantly deteriorated. What you can do for funds in the meantime is as per my last post. Alternatively you could claim JSA pending the appeal but this carries its own issues if you are unfit to fulfill the agreement.

I would strongly advise you to appeal and to submit a SAR for all information they have held on you since the beginning of your claim, including prints from the customer information system (CIS). Even if they have changed your address on the CIS, previous entries cannot be over ridden - they will still be recorded there even if they are showing as 'void'. This is what I have used in address issues. DWP do not charge for SARS.

I spoke to the decison maker.

Someone gave me some past trubunal case numbers which had rules that the DWP have to prove the letter was sent to the right address.

Again she shrugged it off aise and gave me her own case number which she stated only requires them to have an assumption its arrived. When I got that case number checked the case was something else stating the opposite that the DWP need to prove they posted. So more discrepency.

Was a long conversation which she completely disregarded passed history as evidence of if I would ignore a latter or not (attended 3 passed medicals). In addition she gave me an example of what she would say is a good cause such as having post going to a nieghbours address, which I pointed out I could have said that and lied and that is no better cause then what I said myself. Of course ultimately some of my post could be going to a neighbour and I wouldnt know about it unless my enighbour told me.

So now I am having to press on with an appeal with the stress involved in xsecuring an income for the duration.

Also it was obvious during the conversation her opinion of my health was that I would fail the medical anyway and she was repeatedly discouraing me from proceeding or making a new claim, then proceeded to tell me how to claim JSA with limited capability to do jobs, at which point I thought if I have to claim JSA with limited capability of work and my proof is accepted for such, then whats the point of ESA limited capability of work? The difference been I would have to sign on paying for a taxi every 2 weeks to get to job centre and have less money paid to me.

Here are the facts and theories.

Fact A - Letter I got was wrong postcoded, the DM admitted over the phone the DWP database was wrong. But said this didnt apply to atos postcode.

Fact B - MP was given a wrong postcode A instead of R on the tuesday which then changed to apparently been a mistake on the wednesday.

Fact C - I didnt get the appointment letter.

Thoeries

A - someone corrected the posted code on ATOS systems or it may even still be wrong but has not been disclosed to me. Its possible of course someone did misread it on the tuesday.

B - The DM took personal feelings into account on making my decision, maybe she thought was pointless me attending a medical if I am going to fail anyway.

Also a letter was sent out informing me of the decision on monday which incidently is yet to arrive interestingly.

I have seeked legal help of a welfare officer but she cant represent me, apparently noone can in my area its phone help only. She is of the opinion I would still get paid during the appeal. My MP said I will get the letter confirming everyones names she spoke to and the postcode discrepency within 2 days. A letter has been sent to a DWP manager of my MP already.

In my opinion the rules need to be better than a vague "within good reason" as that clearly gives DMs too wide a scope to make judgements.

Noone has advised me if I need to inform housing benefit of change of circumstance as I dont want that stopped also.

The DM also told me if I reclaimed ESA but they decided to not pay me until I had a medical the medical would be fast tracked so in that scenario I wouldnt be waiting a long time for money. Of course the medical seemed fast tracked anyway, many people have waited weeks/months and my date was under 4 weeks after I returned the ESA50 which included the christmas holiday period.

Finally mr duncan smith has been contacted, to see if he is aware of these kind of decisions taking place.

Also finally I forgot.

I dont know what an SAR is but I asked that DM to send all my documentation on their systems to me in the post, forms I filled in, medical reports etc.

 

 

Also a letter was sent out informing me of the decision on monday which incidently is yet to arrive interestingly.

 

most letters go out by second class post only now

 

I have seeked legal help of a welfare officer but she cant represent me, apparently noone can in my area its phone help only. She is of the opinion I would still get paid during the appeal. My MP said I will get the letter confirming everyones names she spoke to and the postcode discrepency within 2 days. A letter has been sent to a DWP manager of my MP already.

 

This is incorrect, you failed to attend your medical so you can appeal but if its not won before the end of your IB/IS claim then your claim will close. You will have to claim JSA. If you win your appeal then you will stay on IS/IB while the process begins again to get you onto ESA

 

Noone has advised me if I need to inform housing benefit of change of circumstance as I dont want that stopped also.

 

If your IB/IS ceases then yes you will have to inform HB but you will still be entitled as you may claim JSA or if not you will get it on income based..

 

Worried you say your letter arrived unopened then surely thats proof it went to the wrong address, because it came late opened.....