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Have you made a complaint about the activites by Jacobs collecting on council tax in Sefton


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As the title suggests.

I recently asked why Sefton council continue to use such a disreputable firm as Jacobs Certified Bailiffs to collect on council tax arrears even when the person(s) being persued hvae tried to make reasonable repayments and repayment scheme with the council.

 

Their reply was that they had a duty by law to the residents of the borrough to collect on unpaid council tax as quickly as possible.

They also deny having any knowledge of any instances where there have been complaints, upheld or otherwise, against Jacobs Certified Bailiffs acting on their instruction.

 

I would like evidence that there have been complaints made against them to Sefton council, I am positive it exists.

 

Any one here made a complaint and what was the outcome/reply?

 

I currently have a list of [EDIT] violations, mainly [EDIT] . I will post the thread when i send if off and start getting replies etc...

Edited by ims21
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hi

 

use the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT and ask the for that information.

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If your local authority is like mine – and there's no reason to believe it won't be – it will conduct its formal complaints completely in favour of the council/bailiff, with impartiality an entirely alien concept. The council will likely take whatever measures necessary to find all aspects of the grievance unfounded, unless it is backed into a corner and has no choice to upheld it.

 

Was it a formal complaint? It may be the council avoids recording complaints as "formal" so it can deny any complaints exist on its system.

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  • 5 months later...

Hi,

Due to one reason or the other, we ended up owing the council around £1300 in council tax. They where refusing sane repayment offers (like ones we could actually afford, ones that where around 1/3 or our income) for the 'debt' and current council tax. They then started sending aorund the monkeys/'legal' racketteers AKA Jacobs. After a little tete et tete, and the bailiffs using illegal means to attempt collections of the debts (including adding illegal amounts to the bill), and the council denying they've ever had ANY complaints made against their monkey company, the stress levels got so bad that we became estranged (the wife and I).

 

The council finally agreed to a sane recovery scheme, i.e. an affordable amount from the wife p/month.

 

After a few months, the wife and I decided to give it another go and I moved back in. We announced this to all the relevant governmental bodies. This was a few months ago.

 

Last week, a letter arrived from sefton council addressed to me, stating that if I did not pay IN FULL the £1300 odd, that they would be sending round the monkeys.

 

Now, again, they are refusing to accept a sane repayment scheme (one which one would naturally assume to be acceptable given that the wife draws in around £1k p/month, and I only have p/t work drawing in around £300 p/month, being around a repayment 1/3 greater than they have already agreed is acceptable from the wife).

 

Can they officially agree on a repayment scheme from the wife AND go after me for the full amount?

 

Can they accept a reasonable repayment scheme from the wife but not one respective of my lower wage from me

 

Can they treat us separately considering we are now officially 'as one'?

 

What is my best next step?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

I was wondering about the point on your V5 where is states that "This document is not proof of ownership. It shows who is responsible for registering and taxing the vehicle."

It only shows the registered keeper of the vehicle, not the owner. In fact, as far as I am aware, the DVLA holds no information as to the owner of a vehicle.

So, when a bailiff requests vehicle details from the DVLA, the only information that they can possibly receive is on the vehicles registered keeper, not the owner.

 

I was under the impression that they can only levy against possessions that belong to the debtor.

 

Thus, if one could prove that a vehicle isn't theirs, but on loan, even if they are the registered keeper, then the bailiffs should legally be able to take the car.

Also, just telling the bailiffs before they levy on the vehicle should be enough to stop them from levying distress, even if they don't remove the vehicle.

 

For example, 'my' car is technically owned by my dad, he paid for it under agreement that I would pay him back. If asked, he would say that the car is his until I had paid him back. But for practical and insurance purposes, I am the registered keeper and user of the car.

 

So, surely this would be like a car on HP. Would I need a written contract to show this agreement with my father?

 

The only reason I don't think this is the case (even though I can't see why not), is that I haven't heard of it being used yet, or have read anyone suggesting it (and I doubt that I'm the first to have thought of it).

 

....so, what's the crack?

 

Thanks.

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You have summed up the situation pretty well. Most people who tell DVLA that they are the registered keeper, will also be the owner. I believe that a bailiff would levy on the car and then give 5 days to provide any proof that it is not yours. So if you are anticipating a potential levy on the car, perhaps your dad as owner, should make sure he had some documentation to show the car as his. This may be a purchase receipt or if no receipt a statutory declaration from a solicitor.

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you would need a writtian contract taken out at the time that you borrowed the money off of your father to pay for the car, retrospective writtain agreements would not be acceptable by the courts as it would be easy for anyone to write them out "after the fact",

It would NOT be like HP, as your father does not hold a credit licence to lend money out officially

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Guest PickledCrab

I had an issue with my Ex husband regarding my car. So I went to my local Police station & asked them what proves that you are the legal owner off a car. He said the V5 log book. I showed him the part that said "this document is not proof of ownership" & he then went away & came back & said whoever has the keys!! So I was advised not to let my Ex borrow my car. There is nothing in law that actually proves your an owner off a car!! As you can have all the paperwork such as Insurance, Log book, receipt etc under any name (with yourself as a named driver) & still own the car. Sounds mad that in this day & age nothing actually proves you own your car.

So how can Bailiffs put levy's on cars? As your car could be registered as Mickey mouse (or insert any name you like such as family or friends etc) & you just borrow it even thou you do own it.

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apart from the fact your car would then have to be insured for "mickey mouse" to drive and have such licence in "mikey mouses" name for the insurance to be valid, by law you have to tell the DVLA any changes in infomation within 3 weeks i think it is, and if not you can be prosocuted, i summise, but may be wrong, if you knowingly tell them a lie, it could be conctuded as fraud as you are knowingly being deciptful for personal gain

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oh and a point of being in "mickey mouses" name and you bieng a named driver is known as frontage and invalidates your insurance

parents were doing this for their children as it greatly reduces the insurance costs, but the main driver must be the main policy holder technically

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

So to sum up, my father would need some kind of documentation to state that the car was owned by him.

 

Someone mentioned that any documentation would have to have been drawn up at the time, however that seems only to matter upon the documentation that would be accepted because something like a statutory declaration is basically a binding statement that one is speaking the truth, and that if it thought that that 'truth' not to be the case, then it would have to be challenged in court and proved not to be the case. Otherwise what is the point of a stat dec.?

 

So what kind of documentation would be accepted?

I have read about many cases where bailiffs have gained entry to a house and levy distress via a walking possession, but being unable to list items with sticky notes attached stating that someone else owns the item and that it is just on loan. So would that suffice?

Also, private sales very rarely come with purchase receipts, or are bothered with. I have a written agreement with my father that the car belongs to him until I have repaid the money loaned for its purchase, would that suffice (but as someone mentioned, my father has no cc licence)?

If my father made a stat declaration at a solicitors, say tomorrow, stating that the car is his, would that be acceptable?

 

It would be interesting to see if anyone has challenged and won in court, the accepted 'fact' that the registered keeper equals the owner, except where business loan contracts are involved.

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When you purchase a car you should exchange paperwork - generally a receipt from the previous owner showing the date, price etc. and who the buyer is. That is what should be presented to the bailiff. If they don't want to know, a written statement from the owner and an enclosed copy. If it's PCN or council related, then send to the council too - they are more likely to take preventative action.

 

You don't need to have any kind of written contract with your father. It's irrelevant to the ownership issue.

 

So far as I am aware there is no statutory declaration process he could pursue. He could write and swear an affidavit though which would strengthen his claim.

 

I've never heard of this going to court - the idea is to prevent them taking the car, not to sue them, but I'm sure someone somewhere has done so. The court would want the same thing - proof of purchase.

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The V5 merely provides "keeper" details.

 

HOWEVER, the main point to consider is section 92 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 it states the following:

 

"The "owner" in relation to a vehicle, means the person by whom the vehicle is KEPT, which in the case of a vehicle registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 is presumed (UNLESS THE CONTRARY IS PROVED) to be the person in whose name the vehicle is registered"

 

The important part of this sentence are the words UNLESS THE CONTRARY IS PROVED.

 

A bailiff will presume that the owner is the keeper. It is therefore very important to ensure that you have some documentary evidence between you and your father detailing the fact that he purchased the car and that full title only passes to you once all payments under your agreement have been paid.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

After several fruitless attempts at securing a copy of this, I have finally got one.

I have not yet seen Sefton's guidelines posted online, ones for many other councils, but not Sefton.

These are highly coveted documents that the councils don't want you to have.

 

 

(Having issues, It doesn't seem to matter what file type I save the scan image as, CAG tells me it's an invalid file type! I have to go, but if sdomeone could tell my why I can't upload a picture....)

)

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Nevermind, I OCR'd it:

 

SEFTON COUNCIL
Code of Practice for Bailiff Services
Council Tax
Sefton Council uses the services of external firms of
Bailiffs in the recovery of outstanding arrears of
local taxes. In carrying out those duties, Bailiffs
acting on behalf of Sefton Council are required to
adhere to this code of practice.
Sefton MBC



Code of Practice for Bailiff Services — Council Tax.
Introduction
This document outlines the requirements of the Revenues and Benefits
Division of Sefton Council’s Finance Department in relation to the supply of
bailiff sen/ices. The term “bailiff services” includes all aspects of the levying of
distress in respect of liability orders for Council Tax.
The following are specific requirements of the Council in relation to the
provision of bailiff services:-
a. Only a bailiff properly vetted and trained by the authorised firm, and under
the control of a bailiff who is certificated by the County Court, may levy
distress in respect of liability orders on behalf of Sefton Council. The
bailiffs firm must at all times consist of at least 2 partners or directors who
are members of the Enforcement Services Association.
b. The bailiff must at all times carry on his/her person an identity card
containing a photograph and contact telephone number, which should be
produced when required. The bailiff must at all times make clear to the
debtor the purpose of his/her visit and the fact that he/she is acting as an
agent of the Council but is not directly employed by the Council. The bailiff
must adhere to the following standards: -
‘1. Be smartly dressed and look presentable at all times.
2. Not discriminate on the grounds of age, colour, creed, disability,
“gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.
3. Speak politely at all times and not act in an aggressive or
intimidating manner towards others and not swear or use bad
language in front of a debtor.
4. Respect confidentiality when third parties are present
5. Not conduct enquiries by involving children under the age of 16, or
the elderly/infirm.
6. Seek not to generate alarm with persons that are interviewed.
7. Not call at premises after 9pm without prior permission from the
Council.
8. Not smoke whilst on the premises of the debtor.
c. The bailiffs firm must at all times carry professional indemnity insurance,
ensuring the fullest indemnity against legal proceedings resulting in
compensation awards due to illegal or irregular distress. Details of such
insurance must be made available to the Council at any time on request,
and will be required prior to the commencement of any contract, and
thereafter on demand. In the event of a debtor commencing proceedings
against the Council alleging irregular or unlawful distress, the bailiff fimr
must supply a full written report of their dealings with the debtor and make
available an appropriate witness to attend court.



The bailiff firm must indemnify the Council against all claims arising out of
the actions of the bailiffs which may lead to a claim against the Council.
lt will be a condition that if the Bailiff firm is a subsidiary of a parent
company, then the parent company will act as a guarantor and will
guarantee the performance of the contract, indemnifying the Council
against all losses, damages costs and expenses arising out of default of
the contract.
At all times bailiffs acting on behalf of the Council must act within the law
relating to distress for Council Tax , including any relevant case law. lt is
the bailiff’s responsibility to ensure that his/her knowledge of relevant
legislation and case law is up to date. The Bailiff firm and/or its agents
must adhere at all times to The Data Protection Act.
Upon receipt of an instruction to levy distress, the bailiff should ensure that
a visit is made to levy distress within a period of 10 days from receipt of
the instruction. If contact is made, the bailiff should attempt wherever
possible to ascertain the debtor’s employer’s name and address/income
support payment office and national insurance number (if applicable). If it
is ascertained that the debtor is no longer resident, the bailiff should make
the appropriate local discreet enquiries to ascertain the date of leaving and
the new address and then refer back to the Council with either the relevant
information or to the effect that no further information is available. If the
debtor has moved a very short distance within the Borough, the bailiff may
levy distress at the new address and then refer back to the Council with
the relevanLinformation. On certain occasions the Council will require the
bailiff to prioritise certain cases, and the bailiff will be expected to respond
promptly.

In cases where an initial visit is made during normal working hours and
because the debtor was not in another visit is made on the same day, the
second visit should not incur the statutory charge unless it is made after
6.00pm. or it is known that the debtor will return at an earlier time.
The bailiff must at all times carry the written authorisation of Sefton
Council, to be shown to the debtor on request, and must hand to the
debtor or leave on the premises the relevant documentation as required by
the legislation. Any walking possession agreement must be signed by the
debtor at the time that the distress is levied, only after its meaning has
been explained to the debtor.
lf contact is made with the debtor, the bailiff should attempt to recover the
amount due as quickly as possible, taking into consideration the
circumstances of the debtor. Wherever possible, if payment is not
made in full at the time of the first visit, the debtor should be given the
opportunity to enter into a walking possession agreement or instalment
payment arrangement (instalment payment arrangement at no cost to the
debtor[other than the the direct costs of making the payment] or the
Council). Arrangements for payment of the total amount due can be
agreed at the bailiff’s discretion and such arrangements should not exceed
a 6 month period. The 6 month period starting as from the date the
Liability Order was issued to the bailiff firm. If the payment arrangement
offered by the debtor will exceed 6 months, and the bailiff considers it
inappropriate to remove goods for sale, the bailiff should refer back to the
Council before agreeing to a payment arrangement exceeding 6 months.
k. The bailiff should at all times use his/her professional judgement to refer
back to the Council if he/she considers that, due to the personal
circumstances of the debtor, it is considered inappropriate to proceed to
levy distress. In particular, the bailiff must refer back to the Council before
continuing action if the debtor:-
I. Appears to be over 70 years of age;
ll. Appears to be severely physically or mentally ill, severely
disabled or suffering from mental confusion;
lll. Has young children and severe social deprivation is evident;
IV. ls disputing liability or claims to have paid or has applied for
benefit or discount or is entitled to a reduction and it has not
been granted; '
V. ls heavily pregnant or the spouse of the debtor is heavily
pregnant;
VI. ls in mourning due to recent bereavement;
Vll. ls having difficulty communicating due to profound deafness,
blindness or language difficulties; '
Vlll. ls unemployed and in receipt of Income Support payments from
the DSS, and details are obtained of the debtor’s National
Insurance number and address of DSS office;
IX.  ls employed and details of the employer's name and address
are obtained;
X.  ls consulting his or her Councillor or Member of Parliament;
Xl. Any other category defined by the Council.

The bailiff must use his/her professional judgement in all cases but in some of
the circumstances detailed above, the bailiff may consider it appropriate to
refer back the initial levy of distress. lf items (viii), (ix) or (x) above
applies, whilst the Council should be advised, recovery action should take its
normal course unless otherwise instructed.

I. Before attending with a van in order to remove goods, the bailiff must send
to the debtor a letter warning of the intention to send a van and also
warning of the costs involved in such a van attendance.
m. Under no circumstances is the bailiff to force entry to a debtor‘s premises
unless with the written consent of a specified senior officer of the Council.
n. In the event of a breach of the peace occurring as the result of a bailiff
visit, the Council must be briefed of the circumstances of the case as soon
as it is practicable.

When the debtor's goods are removed and sold at public auction, the
Council must be provided with a full statement itemising the goods sold,
the amount realised, a breakdown of the costs incurred and a statement of
the amount subsequently outstanding or overpaid, as appropriate. The
bailiff should not remove goods for sale unless it is anticipated that the
sum realised will be sufficient to settle a substantial proportion of the
amount outstanding, including costs. “Substantial proportion" may be
defined by the Council. No goods should be removed for sale if they fall
into the categories protected by legislation.

Where the bailiff is unsuccessful in his/her attempts to obtain payment,
and the liability order is to be returned to the Council, the order should be
endorsed to the effect that the person making the distress was unable (for
whatever reason) to find any or sufficient goods on which to levy. It should
also be accompanied by a report summarising the action taken by the
bailiff together with any details ascertained concerning the
financial/personal circumstances of the debtor.

Costs charged to the debtor should be strictly in accordance with the
provisions of the relevant legislation. -
Payment lists detailing full payments collected and costs deducted must
be submitted weekly to the Council, together with the appropriate
remittance, on the agreed days (weekly). Theremust be no undue delay
in remitting to the Council cleared funds, and therefore it will be necessary
to differentiate between cash and cheque payments received, and to
process, those payments accordingly. In situations where it is agreed that
costs, fees or charges are to be paid by the Council, invoices cannot be
offset against payment lists. Progress reports must be submitted to the
Council at specified intervals, and monthly statistical reports in agreed
format must be submitted to the Council.

The Council will have the right to enter the bailiff's premises at any time in
order to inspect the bailiff‘s records for the purpose of carrying out an audit
of costs charged, monies received and the proper allocation thereof.
The Council should be notified at the end of each week of the names of
the bailiffs working in the Sefton area in the following week.
The format of standard forms and letters issued by the bailiffs must first be
approved by the Council.
The Council exercises a moratorium during the Christmas period each
year for approximately 2 weeks.
Monthly statistical reports in the agreed format must be submitted at
determined times to the Council.
Any written complaints made against the Bailiff firm, a copy of the
complaint as well as the reply must be sent to the Council.



y. The Council should be notified of any complaints made against the bailiff
firm to the Enforcement Services Association, or the Association of Civil
Enforcement Agents. Also, any complaint made to the county court as
representation is made that a bailiff is not fit to hold a certificate, must be
notified to Sefton Council.



This document is not intended to be exhaustive and the bailiff is expected to
use his professional expertise at all times. This document will be subject to
periodic review.

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