Hi,

Im looking for a bit of advice.

We had a Nissan Navara Outlaw on lease from Moneybarn No1 (formerly Duncton No1).

The truck was stolen from our home on June 6th 2011, the police where informed as where the insurance, Britt Insurance Ltd, and Moneybarn. The police investigated and after 14 days declared the truck, "a loss due to theift via the hook and lift manor". (they stole our car keys through the letter box and took the truck). The police informed us that there where quite a few of these thefts going on and in all likelyhood the car would be on the back of a boat heading somewhere overseas.

As a result of this the insurance informed us that, as a matter of course, we would have to meet with a loss adjuster, who would come to our house and have us fill out a bunch of paperwork.

The gentleman came, had us fill out a 16 page statement, took copies of our driving licences, home insurence docs, lease agreement and photos of the house and driveway. He advised us that we were to not pay anymore to the finance company as our policy covered the remainder of the rental payments and cost of the truck, and it was unlikely we would hear anymore from the insurance until it was all settled as Britt would be dealing directly with Moneybarn.

2 weeks later we got a letter from the Loss adjusters, CMA, asking us to explain why our dogs hadn't responded to the break in and did we not find this suspicious.

We wrote back explaining that our dogs are pets and as my partner works 12hr night shifts, they dont react to noises at night unless the door is opened and when it is they usually go and investigate and find my partner there and therefore dont make any noise. We also said that we assumed because the door wasnt opened and no noise was made that this is why they didnt react. just to note, the dogs sleep at the foot of our bed which is at the front of the house, we where also in that room and didn't hear a noise.

We sent this responses at the beginning of August and heard nothing again. This was until we received court documents from the local county court in November stating that the finance company where suing us for:

1. An Order for Delivery Up of the Vehical.

2. The sum of £15,970.09 representing the balance outstanding on the agreement.

3. Interest pursuant to the T&A from the date of maturity until full payment at the rate of 4.00% pa above the Barclays base rate

4. Costs

On receiving this we contacted Britt who passed us through to "the claims handler" in a company called Braodspire TPA. They informed us that the claim hadnt been completed yet as the loss adjusters (CMA) where still waiting for us to contacted them regarding some questions they had about the dogs. I forwarded Broadspire the email sent to CMA showing it was sent in early August to which they stated they would forward it again.

CMA then stated that they needed diving licence mandates for both me and my partner, a copy of the lease agreement and to speak with is again before they could complete their report. (All of which had been provided to their representative when he visited our home).

Broadspire where informed that the court hearing was on Jan 24th 2012 and we would be defending the case if it was still outstanding.

A week before the court date we received the witness statement from Moneybarn in which it stated that broadspire has confirmed that:

"the insurance company are still investigating the matter as they are suspicious of the circumstances surrounding the theft. This is because the alleged thief put an object through the letterbox to obtain the keys, however the defendant has two dogs which did not hear the noise or react to it. Mr. xxx at the insurance company also stated Ms xxxxx & Mr xxxx have been very difficult to contact and has not cooperated with them in providing the relevent information that they require to progress the claim and due to the conduct of Ms & Mr xxxx and the circumstances surrounding the theft it is highly unlikely that a payment will be received from the insurance company"

of course we got straight onto Broadspire to find out why this had been told to the finance company and it has never been mentioned to us. We where assured that the statement was fales, or that Moneybarn had "made their own deductions from a conversations and taken comments out of context. we where assured that no decision had been made or could be made without the loss adjuster report, this should take no longer that six weeks from that date 18/1/12 hopefully sooner.

I had the claims handler write a letter for us to take to court with us to prove that the claim was still in hand and that the insurance company had been informed of that.

We went to court on 24/1/12, and we took all our documents to provide to the court in hopes that the judge could see that we where piggy in the middle and where doing all we could.

The judge did seem to agree somewhat and adjourned the hearing for 14 days and ordered us to issues a "part 20 defence" bringing Britt in on the proceedings as he wasn't happy placing an order of payment on us but had no power to touch Britt as things stood.

so here i am, i have tried endlessly to contact the CAB for help with this form to no avail, and have spoken to 3 solicitors who want £275 -£500 up front to help :-s

I have downloaded the form and it seems pretty straight forward but any advice on how to word it would be greatly welcomed ie: details of the claim, & particulars of the claim parts. The truck was my form of income and because this is outstanding still we dont have replacement car yet thus making us a single income home and struggling. £275 for a form to be filled out is just not an option for us.

Thanks in advance.

Dannit

shortly after posting this, we received a call from our claims handler at Broadspire informing us that he was now having to pass the file over to one of his technical managers because he didnt think that they would be will to release a point of contact for the courts because "if a judgement is made against Britt then we would be forced to pay either way, even if we decided to reject the claim" Im so lost in the web that is being woven to be honest. This company who we paid £97pm for 24 months to protect us is hiding behind smoke screens and legal jargon.

Can you post a link to a part 20 form - the same one as you are using

BankFodder thank you for reponding. i will pm you the link as i am not allowed to yet on the forum because i need to have a higher post count.

it's for N211 & N211A

justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/menus/forms.htm

it wouldnt allow me to pm you either :-s here it is with out the W's

Thank you but that is just a page which has links to all the forms - http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/menus/forms.htm

I need the link to the specific form. I've not heard of a part 20 defence. Only a part 20 claim

yeah sorry, we need to put in a part 20 claim as our defence hmctscourtfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=442

I can't find the form from the info which you have given here. However, I don't understand because a part 20 claim is - as I understand it - a claim which you brig against the party you are being sued by. You need to bring the insurer into the case and I don't see how a part 20 claim does that. I'd like to see the form

I can't find the form from the info which you have given here. However, I don't understand because a part 20 claim is - as I understand it - a claim which you brig against the party you are being sued by. You need to bring the insurer into the case and I don't see how a part 20 claim does that. I'd like to see the form

My last post has the link to the form I downloaded. By issuing a part 20 claim we bring Britt into the proccedings as a 3rd party (moneybarn suing - us suing - britt)

Here it is again: the pdf download is at the bottom (not easy to find but there :s)

hmctscourtfinder.justice. gov.uk/HMCTS/GetLeaflet.do?court_leafl ets_id=451 and here is the form

I've done some reading and I see that you can make a part 20 claim against a non party. However, I must say that it seems to me to be more useful to join the insurer as a co-defendant.

I'd very much like to see the third part form. Why don't you just post the link but use spaces instead of stops.

Are you looking at this http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/contents/parts/part20.htm

They judge adjoured on the order that we issue a part 20 and if we didn't he would have not choice but to place an order against us. :s

Is this it

http://hmctscourtfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n211%28cc%29_0302.pdf

Try this

This part 20 claim is made on the order of Judge XXXXX dated XXXX and my claim has been stayed for 14 days to permit the claim to be filed and served.

 

The part 20 defendant is the insurer of a vehicle Make XXX reg XXX which was stolen on XXXDATEXXX and which is the subject of the claim number XXXXX brought by CLAIMANTXXX against the defendant

 

The defendant was insured by the part 20 defendant under a policy numberXXX dated XXX

 

The defendant made an claim against the part 20 defendant under the policy

 

The part 20 defendant has refused to pay the defendant in respect of the the loss of the vehicle

 

by virtue of the part 20 defendant's breach of contract, the defendant has been unable to make any payments to the claimant in respect of the alleged debt claimed by them

 

and the defendant seeks £XXXXX plus interest pursuant to s.69 County Court Act 1984 plus costs

Great thank you so much! would it be correct to state that Britt have "refused" to pay, or should i say something like "have failed to pay in a reasonable time" do you think?

I would put it as a refusal. They can rebut it in their response if they want. Don't get into the niceties of what is a reasonable time. Frankly they should have sorted it out by now. What you are seeing here is the foot-dragging of a company which does everything it can to escape liability. They tend to stretch things out and it could easily have gone on for a couple of years. Frankly I don't know why you didn't challenge them head on some time ago. It is your over-tolerant approach which allows these people to get away with and and to victimise their clients so easily.

This court action is the best thing that could have happened to you.

I forgot to add the prayer at the end of the part 20 claim.

You have to end up saying " and the defendant seeks £XXXXX plus interest pursuant to s.69 County Court Act 1984 plus costs

Make sure that you calculate it all correctly - go on the high side if you are in doubt.

Keep a close track of every bit of time you spend on this because you can claim costs at £18 per hour plus expenses. Log it all.

Beware - this case will be on the fast track or even on the multi track. If you lose, then you could be liable for the costs of each of the other parties