Hi everyone,

I would like some advice please.

Basically I have a dispute with RBS/THINK BANKING/GREGORY PENNINGTON

In short, I had a bank account with Think banking, all of my direct debits went out of that account.

In august 2011 i got married and me and my wife set up a joint account with lloyds.

I signed a form with lloyds so that they could transfer all of the direct debits over from my think banking account to my new lloyds account.

In the meantime I have moved to live in Dubai.

All of my direct debits got transferred over fine to my new lloyds account except for one direct debit, which was for Gregory Pennington. For those that dont know they are a debt management company and they were therefore consolidating all of my debts ie credit cards etc.

Because the direct debit to them did not get transferred correctly to my new account, they were not paid, and therefore neither were my credit cards, in which the creditors of my credit cards (MBNA AND FIRST DIRECT) have issued me with defaults for the next 6 years!

Once i realised that the direct debit to gregory pennington had not been paid it was too late and defaults had already been made.

I contacted my creditors and arranged direct payment with them from now on instead of going through gregory pennington.

I have tried to find out how the gregory pennington direct debit did not get transferred correctly to my new lloyds account as all of my other direct debits got transferred fine.

I therefore emailed the ceo of lloyds and requested an explanation in which they have responded in detail and they are not to blame, the did as requested however when lloyds sent the notification to think banking for the direct debit details, think banking took there time to get back to them, then when lloyds attempted to setup the gregory pennington direct debit, gregory pennington cancelled the request!

RBS, THINK BANKING AND GREGORY PENNINGTON are part of the same group, now this is where i find it very dodgy.

Think banking managed to transfer over all of my direct debits to my new bank account, however they were unable to transfer over the one direct debit that has something to do with them (gregory pennington).

Think bankings argument is that it is my responsibility to ensure there was enough funds in my old think banking account to cover any direct debits whilst the transfer was taking place.

Which i guess is fair enough, but my point it, if gregory pennington had not cancelled the direct debit request from lloyds, the payment would of been setup, fair enough the payment to my creditors would of been late however no default would have been issued for a payment that was a few days late!

I have requested that thinkbanking/gregorypennington/rbs contact MBNA and FIRST DIRECT to request that they remove the defaults due to their error, however their response was: We appreciate your strength of feeling and annoyance on these matters; and note your request for us to contact your creditors in order to remove the defaults from your credit file. However, whilst Gregory Pennington (GP) was assisted you in negotiating with your creditors to pay reduced payments and potentially freeze interest and charges through the Debt Management Programme (DMP), the credit remains your responsibility; and, as such creditors will only deal with you and only they can amend this information for you. It is therefore not a question of us being unwilling; we simply are not in a position to do this for you.

Can someone let me know if this is true?

The also offered me £100 in compensation for poor service etc, however I have been emailing these guys back and forth for days, over 20 emails have been sent to them. And I have been dealing with top management. I do honestly believe that they are the ones that made the error. £100 is a ridiculous about of compensation for the time and stress this has caused, and plus now I have 2 defaults for 6 years on my credit file because of them!

Therefore they put: You have confirmed you do not feel £100 reflects the time you have taken in emailing both RBS and Think Money in order to resolve your complaint or the stress and inconvenience caused. We are sorry that you feel you have had to take the time to correspond with us via email, however, we believe that restriction to this method of communication (at your request) has been a factor in this matter. We therefore invite you to advise what you feel would be an amicable offer in order for us to resolve your complaint.

What do you think I should respond to this?

I know this is a very long post, however I really would appreciate your help on this matter.

Thanks

I think that you have a very strong case against RBS.

The question will be - what are you prepared to do about it? FOS or court action?

Are you in Dubai now?

Meanwhile read up everything about BCOBS

I think that you have a good case against Think. You did everything you could to get your direct debits paid. There is no question that you didn't have enough money at the time.

The rest of your new DDs worked. Think failed to do their job in respect of one

You can either go and make a complaint to the FOS or go to court.

The FOS will take up to two years, make a conservative compensation recommendation and probably be unable to do anything about your credit file.

If you go to court, you will be able to sue Think for a much more substantial sum and may be able to force them to take action to have your file cleaned up. It is within their power to do so if they want.

Court will be quick and effective and cheap but bear some risk of costs if you lose. You have a high chance of success.

If you are in Dubai, the court action might be tricky to manage

Thank you so much for your response.

I also think there is a strong case, and I think they are just trying to fob me of with £100 to try their luck.

This has totally messed up my credit file now for 6 years, and I have been communicating with them since November about this back an fourth nearly everyday.

Will the FSO really take nearly 2 years? Wow.

Yes I live in Dubai, therefore how could I go about the court proceedings? If anyone has any advice I would be most grateful.

Also do you know roughly how much comp I am looking at if I take them to court? Because if it is going to be difficult to take them to court I shall simply make a request to them firstly for X amount of compensation before I do take it to court, as they have left their last email open stating: We therefore invite you to advise what you feel would be an amicable offer in order for us to resolve your complaint

Any advice is most grateful, this is driving me nuts!

The bank will try to engage you in protracted dialogue which is calculated to wear you down. They are not interested in a solution except to get you off their backs.

Yes, the FOS can take up to two years. It should take much shorter and they say on their website that it is about 12 months. However, we are receiving lots of reports that people are having to wait much longer. In a complicated case - and I would say that yours is complicated, I expect that the FOS will take a longer time. Also, you have no complaint to make about MBNA or 1st Direct and so the FOS will have no power to deal with them. When it comes to dealing with the CRA's and anything to do with credit files, the FOS is frit and frankly I don't think that the FOS will really know what to do in this case. I exepct that the FOS will mainly duck the issue, recommend to Think that they make you an award - maybe of £1000 or so - I don't know - and then Think will turn to you and say that the matter is finished now and you will find it difficult to get anything else done.

The level of a court award depends on the damage which your blighted credit file will do to you. However, there have been very substantial awards made in respect of inaccurate data where people have lost the opportunity to buy houses or have had to pay extra for credit. A serious case a few years ago got £116,000.

It depends on your individual case.

If you use the FOS, then Think won't blink an eyelid. If you go to court, they will stop and take stock. They can easily consult with 1st Direct and with MBNA and get them to remove the defaults. I've seen that kind of thing done before. They are all part of the same club. If they think that they are facing a serious action for compensation then they will be more prepared to do what is necessary.

I would also consider challenging MBNA and 1st Direct directly in court because the data has to be accurate - and although it is accurate technically, I would argue that it doesn't reflect the truth. You could only take such an action if you had successfully litigated against Think. However, you would have to go all the way to a judgment. If you accepted an out of court settlement, you would not have the judgment you need to go on and take the secondary DPA action.

I thin that it would be very difficult to handle it from Dubai. You need a UK address for service but if you have family in UK who you can trust not to let you down about opening letters and scanning you documents promptly - and if you are prepared to visit UK to attend hearings then you could do it. I would put Think on notice that I was in Dubai and that they were forcing me to incur expenses traveling to UK to sort out the mess caused by them and that I would be asking the court to award my reasonable costs of travel. I don't know if you would get those expenses but there is a good chance of it.

We would help you with the case.

If you have the money then you could get a UK solicitor to handle it for you but I can tel you that very few solicitors will go at this problem with the kind of tenacious aggression which the problem needs

Perfect, thank you so much.

So you think its defo better to take it to court rather that request firstly X amount of compensation from them to see what they say?

If I do take it to court how do I go about it? I have never had to do anything like this before.

Thank you so much for all your help.

No. You should always try to get a deal done first. However, you won't get anywhere but you may as well go through the motions - but don't let them string you along (They are doing that already)

Decide what it is you want, put it to them with a threat of action which you are prepared to take. Set your own deadlines and stick to them. they will want to counter with their own deadlines - typically 8 weeks. If you let them do that, you hand over control. you need to keep control.

Your deadlines should be reasonable but tight. I don't see why it should ever take more than 14 days to get anything done.

Ask yourself the following questions:-

other than these two credit file entries, was your credit file previously clean? Or was it already blighted by other negative entries?

If you already had negative entries on your credit file, when were they due to expire – in other words how much worse have these new entries made your credit file. It could be that your credit file was so bad anyway that these new entries actually make no practical difference to your credit reputation.

If these new entries do make a difference to your credit reputation, then in what way are they likely to affect you? Are you expecting to apply for a mortgage in the next six years, apply for credit, or enter into any kind of transaction where the state of your credit file might become a factor?

You need to list all of this out so that you then get a picture of the damage that you are suffering because of the inaccurate credit record.

If you find that there is likely to be no actual damage to you and that it is just a question of reputation, you can still take action and you can still ask for compensation, but the figure would be less. In fact you may calculate that there is a level of compensation which you would accept and in respect of which you would be prepared to tolerate a damaged credit file for a six-year period.

Also, where the default notices actually served upon you?

Going to court is a fairly simple thing but of course it will be more complicated if you're not there. I think that you would be starting an action against Think for breach of contract, and breach of their FSA statutory obligations. They would be quite worried about getting a judgement which reflected that they had broken FSA regulations that as I have already said, they would attempt to buy you out the court action by offering you money. However, it would be important for you to refuse any offers for settlement and to continue to judgement. Some people may tell you that if you don't accept a reasonable settlement that you suffer a risk of costs if you insist on going to court. This is not true if you have a good and reasonable continuing interest in turning down a settlement offer and continuing to judgement. If Think did not undertake to have your credit file cleaned up, then I am quite sure that a judge would consider that it was reasonable for you to continue your action even in the face of a financial settlement.

Once you had a judgement, then I would send a copy to the FSA as part of a formal complaint and also (assuming that Think were not going to do anything about your credit file) I would consider threatening first direct and MBNA – and also the credit reference agency with an action under the data protection act. There is also a possible issue of defamation – but this is complicated and costly. It would do the trick but personally I think that you would be better off not going there.

in principle, I would have no difficulty about suing Think for the maximum possible compensation within the small claims limit to be decided by the court.

So my particulars of claim would end up: –

and the claimant claims compensation not exceeding £5000 in the discretion of the court.

You have to decide whether this sum is sufficiently interesting to you. You would hope that Think were sufficiently concerned about that they would want to offer to take steps to clean your credit file and give you reduced compensation. They might for instance have your credit file cleaned up and offer you £500. you might decide that the damage to your future plans over the next six years is worth far more to you than a mere £5000 compensation. You have to work it out for yourself.

If they offered you a deal I would refuse to withdraw the action until they had done everything they were meant to. This might require a Tomlin order.

Perfect, I am going to get a credit report online in a little while to check everything thoroughly, in the meantime I have sent them the following:

Due to this matter now getting out of hand, and your company not taking my complaint seriously, I have am now liaising with a solicitor in the UK.

After consulting with my solicitor he has indeed confirmed that it is of course possible for your company to make direct contact with my creditors to state the error with direct debit transfer was indeed an error on your part, in order for the defaults to be removed from my credit file as the data held by CRA has to be accurate - and although it is accurate technically, the argument is that it doesn't reflect the truth.

I am not going to be taking this to the FOS as their services can take up to 2 years to be dealt with.

Due to this error, my credit rating is now demolished for the next 6 years, therefore should I now wish to purchase a house, or get any credit and I will find this extremely difficult.

It is also my solicitors recommendation to take this matter to court as I will be able to sue your company for a much more substantial sum and will be able to force you to take action to have my credit file cleaned up, this would include breach of contract, and breach of FSA statutory obligations.

I shall also be adding on to my claim that due to me being in Dubai the fact that I am being forced to incur expenses traveling to the UK, and a loss of earnings for the time taken to sort out the mess caused by your company and that I would be asking the court to award me reasonable costs of travel on top of compensation.

I sending this email as a last resort to settle this matter amicably with your company.

From my prospective, an amount of £8000 plus the removal of the defaults placed on my credit file caused by your errors, would be the figure I deem reasonable for the following reasons:

- The errors that have occurred on your part

- The stress that this has caused

- The time taken contacting your company on numerous occasions

- Numerous amount of telephone calls I have made to Gregory Pennington from Dubai

- Solicitors costs

- The major impact that your error has made on my credit file for the next 6 years

If in your next response this is not possible, further correspondence shall be from my solicitor and then through court.

Regards,

Wow Good Luck..

8k might be ambitious... But it's certainly a good negotiating amount.

They may possibly argue though that your credit report is trashed anyway with only recently stepping out of a DMP.

I wish you the best of luck. Thinkbanking mucked me around for years!!!

lol we shall see what they say...

I am not going to give up though.

If the don't play ball I will just go through the courts, the have defiantly made an error somewhere along the lines.

Going to get my credit report today from credit expert so I can see exactly how much damage it has made to my credit rating, incase they do try it.

I shall let u know how I get on

Well they replied to me....

Ridiculous.... What is your advice on my next steps?

We acknowledge receipt of your further email on 27 January 2012. Whilst we reiterate how sorry we are that you feel this matter has got ‘out of hand’, we do not agree that we have not taken it seriously. We have taken it very seriously and investigated it to the full extent of our involvement in your situation.

We would also prefer to resolve matters amicably, so we are prepared to offer, without prejudice, £500 as an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of this matter. This offer is open to be accepted until 6th February 2012.

Yours sincerely,

Well I am astonished that they have responded so quickly. Also, the £500 is a huge leap up from their original offer of £100.

This means that they are taking you very seriously and they realise what a serious mistake they have made and what a serious situation they have put you in.

£500 is derisory and I suggest that you continue the plan which I suggested to you.

Have you calculated what your options are and what the value of the claim is?

I also thought it was a bit strange that they got back to me so quickly, especially with today being a Saturday.....

I am thinking about soliciting a no win no fee solicitor to handle it for me, as it is going to be difficult going to and from the Uk.

I have attempted to get a credit report from credit expert but I have to wait 2 working days so that they can verify me before i can see the report.

Should I reply to them again, or should I just go ahead with a solicitor and court?

A real shame that you need to get legal help on this. It really could be quite straightforward and the average solicitor would will not be familiar with some of the banking issues.

In the meantime I would drop them a very brusque message telling them that their offer is derisory - so much so that they have increased your resolve to take all necessary steps to produce a proper remedy.

Tell that they have a bloody nerve to lay down deadlines to you. It is they who have acted negligently and they had better start to understand that it is they who are in trouble and not you.

Tell them that not only will you be taking an action for their breach of contract but also in respect of the breaches of their statutory obligations under the FSA Banking:Conduct of Business Regulations and that once you have obtained your judgment, you will be sending it to the FSA as the basis of a formal complaint.

Tell them also that because this is a breach of statutory duty, that once you have commenced the action you will proceed to judgment and that you will not enter into any discussion about out of court settlements.

Wow your good!

I sent the the following:

Unfortunately I am not willing to accept your derisory offer of £500, so much so that you have increased my resolve to take all necessary steps to produce a fair remedy.

It does not come close to the figure that I deem to be acceptable due to all of the points I raised in my previous email.

I find it absurd that you are attempting to lay down deadlines for me, it is your company in which have acted negligently towards me.

Not only will I be taking an action for your breach of contract, but also in respect of the breaches of your statutory obligations under the FSA Banking: Conduct of Business Regulations.

Once I have obtained my judgment, I shall be sending it to the FSA as the basis of a formal complaint.

Because this is a breach of statutory duty, once I have commenced the action I will proceed to judgment, and I will not enter into any discussion about out of court settlements.

I have indeed waited patiently and given you plenty of chance to resolve this amicably, however it seems that this is not how you wish to resolve this serious matter.

Therefore my solicitor will be in contact with you from now on to start court proceedings.

Can you please confirm if it is you personally that he should contact?

If you do appoint an advisor, I suggest that you still analyse your position in the way that I have suggested. You need to give an advisor a very clear idea of what your position is and what you want out of it at the end of the day

Its all very hard with me being here in Dubai.....

Wow!! @ them offering £500! I wish now that I'd have pursued them with the multiple mistakes they made with me. Cancelled a standing order with them to pay an ex girlfriend £200 per month, they still sent it a month later, when I queried it they told me to get in touch with her for the money back myself... End of story.

I didn't know about cag back then lol.

I have to admit I wasn't too positive over this thread yesterday, didn't think they'd budge from £100! For them to multiply their offer by Five is a real positive sign that they know they've dropped a BIG clanger!

You go all the way! I await the next installment on this thread with interest!

Regards

Bombaymix, wow that is bad! Asking you to contact your ex girlfriend to get your money back! Crikey!

I know for a fact they have made a big error, and they know that... They just don't want to admit it. They are very dodgy indeed!

I shall be going all the way, and cant wait to put a post on here as to how much I have won in court! It is now just the principle that I don't like to be messed about, and they shouldn't be messing anyone about.

The banks are bullies. They are not used to being pushed around and if you are prepared to inform yourself about your rights - and if you are prepared to go to court - then you can get a lot done.

The banks are not used to competition and even with their use of brute strength to control the customers they barely made it without being bailed out by the taxpayer. The banks couldn't run an ordinary business in a competitive market. They would fail.

The banks only continue because of their sheer size which allows them to abuse their power and because of the weak regulatory framework.

Why more people don't have the bottle to take them on, beats me. They are a pretty soft target for most things.

Well I got a response.... Looks like they want it to get messy.

I am not playing around anymore.

Please ca you give me advice on what the next steps are that I should take in regards to legal proceedings.

Here is their response:

Further to your email dated 28 January 2012, we re-confirm that, having carried out a full investigation, we have now exhausted our complaints process.

It is open to you to decide to take independent legal advice or, as already advised, to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Should you decide to appoint legal representation, your advisor will be able to provide you with further instructions as to how to proceed, but in the first instance you may tell them to direct any correspondence to me.

Well you now need to decide which complaints route you are going to take and if it is the court route, then how you are going to manage the logistics of it.

In any event, you need to lay out your entire position and what you want out of it and a justification for what you perceive is your just outcome.

Laying out what you want and why is the essential next step

Hey - have pm'd you. I know this lot quite well.