Hi all,

I've recently found this forum and am looking for some guidance on how best to proceed with a loan I have.

The background:

I was experiencing financial pressures with my business in 2005

and took out an Egg personal loan to pay off a credit card bill

I had accumulated while trying to keep the business afloat

- yes stupidly I was accumulating personal debt to support my business.

Obviously this didn't help, and in 2006 I then took a further loan to raise the amount to £20k.

About this time I had an accident in my house and all my paperwork were lost in the resulting effects.

(it never rains but it pours!).

Due to the business failing and my own poor mental state,

I stopped paying on the account in early 2008.

My business failed shortly after and I had to go on JSA and move in with a family member,

whilst also struggling with depression.

After being chased relentlessly by Scotcall,

I started paying £1 a month in a temporary agreement.

I attempted to agree a full and final settlement with them in early 2009,

when a family member agreed to pay £2.4k,

but they would only agree to a partial settlement

- after discussing with the national debtline they said they wouldn't trust that

as far as they could throw it,

I declined the offer and asked if we could agree a further £1 a month settlement whilst I was still on JSA.

However I didn't hear back from them after this.

That was until June this year,

when I received a notice of assignment that Arrow Global had taken over the account from Egg

and I would be dealing with Westcot.

Learning from my dealings with Scotcall,

I have changed mobile number, so am only dealing with them via mail.

I have just started a new part time job and come off JSA,

I can afford a small amount a month and following their contact with me,

I offered them £5 a month for 6 months.

They responded by sending me a blank Direct Debit form to fill in

- no acknowledgement of my offer,

no agreement stated, no amount, no dates....

I was expected to sign it and send it back to them.

Of course I didn't and asked them for their account number which I could pay into myself.

After obfuscating for two more letters,

I have finally received a Standing Order form from them,

which they ask to fill in and send back to them.

Now my dealings with Scotcall have hardened me somewhat,

I am not as intimidated by them as I would have been a few years ago.

But I am still unsure of the best way forward.

Should I send this back to them or just go ahead and pay the £5/month online now I have their account details?

Given that I have no paperwork, I'm guessing a CCA request is a given, but do I write to Egg or Arrow Global?

Anyone know if Arrow Global are more receptive to full and final offers than Egg were?

Any other pointers would be gratefully received

- I wish I'd found this forum years ago!!!!

Under no circumstances complete the Direct Debit. Using the bank details provided set up a standing order which you control or ensure you pay each month using your online banking facility.

there have been on or two reports on the forums where DCAs have helpe themselves, or increased the direct debit value without consultation.

I would then confirm what you have done in writing... just advise that your bank account doesnt support direct debit payments.

Thanks CitizenB - will do that immediately.

Any idea on who I send the CCA request to - Egg, Arrow Global or Westcot?

It is my understanding that the CCA request should go to the original creditor. However, I have seen others say it should go to the current owner of the account.

Not much help on that one, was I

Ah thanks - will do a bit of digging around and see if anyone's had any success with either approach.

Thanks also to the person who just messaged me with tips - I can't reply by message as I don't have 5 posts yet

It might be worth having a read of the two links below.

The first is quite lengthy, the 2nd contains letter templates. I think once you have received a response to your CCA request, or not as the case might be.. you may need to confirm if they DO actually retain a copy of the original.. especially if they have decided to send you a reconstituted copy.. which is acceptable for the s78 request, but not for any litigation.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291468-Fighting-back-with-CPUTR-2008....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?317447-Request-for-confirmation-of-documents-under-CPUTR-2008

If you look at PriorityOne's threads, you will also find a thread where you can ask questions in respect of anything CCA

HTH

pers i'd look at your cra file and see who owns the debt.

then fire the cca off at them.

i'd also consider an sar to EGG

as i bet there is some reclaiming to do somewhere!

for the minute, i'd pay no one anything till we get your ducks inline.

dx

Ok, I have had a look at my file and the loan is now definitely with Britannica Recoveries.

I've also got listings on the old Egg card going back to 2000.

So guess that's the plan then - CCA to Britannica and SAR to Egg.

Thanks for the help guys - really appreciated. Will update once/if I hear back.

Ok, well I've heard back from my CCA request.

Arrow Global, Acting as agent for Britannica Recoveries have said:

"DEBT OWED TO Britannica Recoveries, Assigned by Egg

We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute.

However we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested.

We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course"

Anyone know how this affects the 12 + 2 days time limit?

Also, do I just send one onto Egg now rather than wait for them to do so,

since they returned my £1 postal order?

Doesn't affect timescale - my advice would be to send account in disput letter.

Intend

The relationship between Arrow Global and Brittanica is close enough to be incestuous, and gives the lie to their whining in their rather curiously worded letter.

p'haps a CCA is a waste of time

but will confuse the brits!

get an SAR off to egg.

lets see whats actually going on here.

dont forget NONE of the people chasing you/involved have ANY legal powers

so no paying them yet.

dx

Doesn't affect timescale - my advice would be to send account in disput letter.

 

Intend

Thanks for the advice - sorry, a bit confused.

The letter in dispute surely works on the basis that the timescale has expired?

So wait for the 12+2 days, and then send, yes?

The relationship between Arrow Global and Brittanica is close enough to be incestuous, and gives the lie to their whining in their rather curiously worded letter.

It's got me confused - my credit report says the debt is with Brittanica,

the letter received from Arrow says it's nothing to do with them and it also says it's assigned from Egg.

p'haps a CCA is a waste of time

but will confuse the brits!

 

get an SAR off to egg.

 

lets see whats actually going on here.

 

dont forget NONE of the people chasing you/involved have ANY legal powers

so no paying them yet.

 

dx

Take the bull by the horns, so to speak? I received a letter from Westcott too trying it on, but it is dated before Arrow's. They certainly do like trying to exert pressure!

A question on SAR - given that there was a credit card AND loan with Egg, do I need to specifically highlight each of these, or does a SAR cover all dealings with this company? Cheers.

a SAR covers all data, all accounts.

Hi there.

Time for an update.

Early January I received a second letter from Arrow Global/Britannica Recoveries

from my earlier requested CCA,

saying they are still awaiting receipt of documentation from the assignee Egg.

So I sent off aSAR request to Egg. They replied last week as follows:

"This letter is about your Egg Account

Thank you for your request for an executed copy of the credit agreement for account number XXXXXX

with Egg Banking Plc under section 78 (1) of the consumer credit act 1974

As the account you refer to is now closed I have to inform you that Egg

are under no obligation to comply with a request for a copy of the executed agreement

under the Consumer Credit Act as we no longer have a contractual relationship relating to this account

nor are we seeking to enforce any agreement on the account.

The right to be provided with this information from Egg Banking plc ended with the closure of this account.

Section 78 (3) (a) of the Consumer Credit Act states that section 78 (1) does not apply

where 'no sum is, or will or may become payable by the debtor'.

The right to request an executed copy of the agreement is found in part VI of the act,

which is entitled 'Matters arising during currency of credit or hire agreements.'

so where an agreement is no longer current the right to request or be provided

with a copy of the executed agreement therefore ceases.'

In my request to them, I only gave my address and did not specify account numbers.

So what they've done is commented on my closed Egg card, and not mentioned the Egg Loan.

And also they have not returned the £10 postal order!!

Anyone have any idea what they're playing at?

Rather odd statement to make from EGG..

If no agreement is going to be forthcoming, the new owners are going to have a hard time pursuing any balance outstanding.

I have asked for further advice on this one the new owners wont be able to "reconstitute" an agreement that's for sure.

told ya

now i take it that was a reply to your cca

is the sar still on its way?

dx

Thanks, citizenb - appreciated

To clarify, all Egg have mentioned in their reply is the number of the Egg card account I had prior to my loan. No mention of the reference number of the Egg loan that Arrow/Brittanica have been corresponding to me about. Both accounts had the same home address.

Hi DX,

The Brittanica/Arrow reply was the response to the CCA - effectively saying we've not heard back from Egg.

The SAR request to Egg elicited the long reply I quoted, bypassing any reference to my outstanding loan and only mentioning the closed Egg card account.

post 15 is in relation to a CCA

s78 is nowt to do with an SAR

dx

Ah ha! That makes sense now in regards to why they didn't return the £10 PO for the SAR. It's still being processed.

So just hold fire till the 40 days for the SAR request expire?

Absolutely, if they dont comply with the SAR within 40 calendar days.. then you can issue a court claim in order to force their compliance

Once the 40 days is up and they haven't produced the documents then you would need to write a letter stating that they hadn't complied fully with your SAR, enclose a copy of the original SAR request.....give them a further 7 days from recepit of your letter something similar to this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?178660 I think it might also be wise to state in that letter that if they do NOT hold the documents you requested then they should confirm this in writing to you....

So, EGG are saying if they closed the account monies are not due???

Really appreciate the advice, fellas. Will update again once the 40 days expire or if any more correspondence arrives.

brokebutnotbeatn - not overly sure, since they only make reference to my closed Egg credit card. Hopefully if they respond to the SAR that will clarify thing...?

Well someone's been busy. Reconstituted agreement received from Arrow/Britannica and 400 odd pages received from Egg in relation to my SAR including credit card statements going back to 2000. Please help - where do I even start with this lot?