I cannot believe that I have just seen a TV advert for UNUM (ATOS Origin as we know them) advertising backup plans for those who are unable to work.... This is sick!!!!!

Under the name of UNUM they have been banned in parts of the US for numerous trangressions.

Now they want to sell us health plans as a fall back if we get refused ESA due to their sham Work assessment reports.

I just thought people should know the depths they will go to.... I for one will not be taking them up on their offer.

Hello there.

Heaven knows I'm no great fan of Unum, but I'm really not sure they're part of Atos. Unum, who are an American insurance company, bought NEL [National Employers' Life] in the UK many years ago. I claimed on my policy with them when I became ill and had a tough time with them. I believe they share some beliefs with Atos about work being good for people, which of course might save them money in not paying claims.

Fwiw, this type of insurance [Permanent Health/Disability, etc] has existed for a long time and is designed to top up any state benefits and as far as I know [will check in a mo] has an offset for State benefits.

My best, HB

Hi HB, just a couple of articles I hope I am ok at posting these, not too sure of how to make them into links

http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=6491#newspost

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/tpca.pdf, the relevant info is on page 47

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmworpen/writev/1015/esa31.htm

I may have made a mistake saying that there are one and the same but they are definnitely very closely related and both have been instrumental in the changes made in the WCA alongside the DWP.

sorry about the linking if anyone can post them as links all the better.

take care xx

Sorry noticed the links have shown up as links, when I posted:)

Now they want to sell us health plans as a fall back if we get refused ESA due to their sham Work assessment reports.

Many of us won't get these health plans due to pre-existing disability.

Many of us won't get these health plans due to pre-existing disability.

Indeed.

My best, HB

I cannot believe that I have just seen a TV advert for UNUM (ATOS Origin as we know them) advertising backup plans for those who are unable to work.... This is sick!!!!!

Under the name of UNUM they have been banned in parts of the US for numerous trangressions.

Now they want to sell us health plans as a fall back if we get refused ESA due to their sham Work assessment reports.

I just thought people should know the depths they will go to.... I for one will not be taking them up on their offer.

I have searched the net and cannot find any link to Atos Origin and UNUM, where did you see this advertised and where did it sate that they are the one and the same?

Unum worked very closely with the Government and advised them on Welfare Reform with a view of getting people back to work and off Incapacity. The restructuring of these assessments and new formats are conducted by ATOS on behalf of the DWP. ATOS have nothing to do with UNUM, they are just following UNUM/Government guidelines.

UNUM have been fined several millions of dollars by every state in the USA regarding failure to pay benefits when they were due. They were also ordered to re-open over 200K rejected claims in the US. The California Insurance Commissioner describes Unum as an outlaw company

UNUM in the UK say that they did not operate the same as their counterparts in the USA - do me a favor - when ever did a Leopard change its spots. UNUM in the UK are just as bad as the US division.

Do a search on Internet for "UNUM Provident bad faith" - this will give you plenty of details - regarding fines and lawyers in USA prosecuting UNUM

Personally - I would not touch UNUM with a pinch of Salt. I am having to take action against them as I have been denied an Income for nearly 5 years !

I have searched the net and cannot find any link to Atos Origin and UNUM, where did you see this advertised and where did it sate that they are the one and the same?

There are numerous sites that mention both ATOS and UNUM in the same articles. On official paper they will not be linked at all because of all the bad press etc but I posted this link in an earlier post http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=6491#newspost, read it please and there is what to me is an obvious link between the 2.

I did also say in an earlier post that I may have mad a mistake saying that they are one and the same but in my humble opinion I think they are definitely linked.

There have been many claims of links between UNUM and ATOS. There will certainly have been longstanding informal links, as both organise and will certainly attend each other's conferences and related events. It is also claimed that the LIMA software used in the WCA is based closely on software developed by UNUM and used by them in the States. It is also alleged that ATOS use UNUM as their appointed experts for the First Tier Tribunal process, but ATOS refuse to comment as they are legally entitled to keep this matter secret. However, on 25th May 2011, they announced the appointment of a new Chief Medical Officer, Professor Michael O'Donnell, and, lo and behold, he was formerly employed by UNUM, where he provided advice on claims and underwriting cases. Unfortunately, I do not have enough posts to give a link, but I found the information I needed by googling 'ATOS Chief Medical Officer' ...

IMO The methods used by ATOS Origin are exactly the same as the outlawed ( in some US States ) " disability denial " ones used by UNUM Provident , i.e. somebody is overplaying , exaggerating illness / disabilities etc and they'll use any " justification " no matter how vague and obscure to suggest this , basically to present everything in a negative way .

The problem in this country is that there is no Constitution , here a elected dictatorship be they yellow , red or blue just legislate ......quite often badly ! .

UNUM Provident used to call it " aggressive claims management " , apparently their problem was there wasn't the old open and shut claims , i.e. someone got asbestos or lost their hand in a machine anymore , they were accused of mis-selling policies .

ATOS Origin's mechanistic and unfit for purpose according to Scotland CAB LIMA software was developed by UNUM Provident . Also IMO it is a well known fact that there has been quite a lot of legal bullying of critical sites by ATOS Origin .

It's no coincidence that UNUM Provident's outlawing in the states started with internet action culminating in a class action being taken out against UNUM Provident ......." interesting " ? .......IMO the possible danger for ATOS Origin is a " McLibel " scenario .

Personally IMO Black Triangle will be the next to be " targeted " .

IMO What you're really dealing with is a Corporate Cabal with very " organic links " to each other and some very organic links to various " corrupt " politicians and governments too , looking for cuts ...whoops sorry ! " solutions " .

Also I've heard allegations of relentless weekend long hacking by UNUM Provident to try and take down a scathingly critical of ATOS Origin site ...what was " interesting " was that particular site was asking for first hand accounts of dealings with ATOS Origin .

Also allegations from another disability campaigner , none too enamoured with ATOS Origin ; getting a lot of visitors from UNUM Provident and from the City of London i.e. major shareholders ? .

You could also argue that Neo Cons ideologically would prefer to have no NHS , nor welfare state and would prefer a Insurance system , it's " interesting " that an expensive TV advertising campaign is being run .

IMO ATOS Origin also have a bad reputation as a Occupational Health Provider , their methods are broadly similar to those used on welfare claimants , and they are " financially incentivised " .

They also work on the " good doctor " basis which goes back to " colourful " city character Lord Freud , known in the city for pushing share issues then the companies would " suddenly " go bust , wanting " independent " doctors , not ones apparently that are too frightened of GMC complaints or ambulance chasing lawyers to sign anyone off .

...the Employers propaganda was first , it's all sour grapes from old soldiers , professional claimers and skivers , then the next tactic was warnings to staff about too much talk about ATOS Origin HCP's being unqualified etc which had to stop forthwith . The next tactic was that an employee's GP etc was not qualified to judge whether someone could work or not , only OHS knew what a employees job entailed and could pass judgement if somebody was to work or not , and employees were not being told what they wanted to hear .

IMO That particular employer is well known for a very regimented managerial style by diktat , being autocratic & underhand , regarding themselves as above the law or at best operating at the limit of Employment Law with some very perverse interpretations put on things by Senior Mgt and " coincidentally " is not popular with Industrial Tribunal Chairmen . IMHO You could argue that the partnership with ATOS Origin is one made in heaven .

However twice at Union Conferences there could have been debates with the mandatory ATOS Origin horror stories , that could have gone on all night which is well beyond the realms of coincidence ......and irony of all ironies , the employer has paid ATOS Origin to finish employees as cheaply as possible on medical grounds then as soon as the now ex members of staff have applied for ESA they have been turned down on often allegedly dubious grounds by the DWP .

Even the Employer's Managers have complained about very poor service from ATOS Origin . Employees and the Union complain of incoherent " medical reports " riddled with gross factual errors , contradictions begging more questions than answers , again this is " very interesting " .

The Corporate BS emanating from ATOS Origin about " removing the barriers " i.e. " all in the mind " " so and so is a hyperchrondriac " etc is " coincidentally " very similar to the horror stories coming from DWP Trial areas ......80% with advocacy were winning appeals against ATOS Origin in said areas ... " interesting " .

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/ there's an article by the ATOS Origin Chief Medical Officer , " coincidentally " ex UNUM Provident