Hi,

first time poster on here,

looking for some help from anyone who has experienced something similar.

The titled company called me to help set up a debt management plan.

I had previously been a carer for a disabled child who died suddenly

- not only leaving me heartbroken but also unemployed and plunging into debt.

It all sounded good, paying £174 a month, £45 of which was Gemstone's cut, in return they would hold all charges etc.

I signed a letter of authority saying that they could contact my creditors and negotiate on my behalf,

I gave them a list of creditors/balances and direct debit details.

There was no contract and I did not receive a set of terms and conditions other than what was in my starter pack.

I was advised by my bank that the consumer credit counselling service did this for free and that lost £45 a month could go to creditors, so I ceased my arrangement with Gemstone after just one payment, and went with the CCCS.

The CCCS ran a benefits check and saw I was eligible for tax credits,

and with that in mind was earning enough to make my own creditor arrangements,

earning too much to qualify for a debt management programme,

so I did just that and have been paying off monthly payments to my creditors.

Since then,

Gemstone wrote out of the blue to say that I was tied into a 12 month contract and was eligible in their terms and conditions to pay over £700 in cancellation charges.

I have had a few arguments with them over what constitutes a contract,

they state that the letter of authority acted as a contract and that "anyone who knows anything about contract law would back that up".

They also claim they sent me terms and conditions (they didn't) and that I could have requested them any time (I didn't know additional terms and conditions even existed) and that I am still liable for all the fees.

They reluctantly agreed to come down to £500 but no lower.

I don't feel I owe them a penny as I didn't sign a contract, and I wasn't given a set of terms and conditions detailing cancellation charges.

I just pray they didn't trick me into a verbal contract when I besides myself with grief, stressed over my fast-declining financial mess and desperate for a way out.

Any help would be eternally grateful

David

ignore them

simple

they have no legal powers to do nowt

dx

I would write to them and ask them to provide some proof that you entered a 12 months contract.

How did you cease your arrangement (was this done over the phone or in writing ) ?

Ask them also to forward you a copy of their complaints procedure.

If they do not do not comply,then you should make a formal complaint to your local Trading Standards.

Of course you can ignore them,but these organisations continue to get away with flouting their obligations because they go unreported.

There are 2 people listed on their Consumer Credit licence-you can address your complaint to either or both.

Clive Aubrey Margetts

Neil James Bowler

And the address to send to is;

1, Cranmore Drive, Shirley, SOLIHULL, West Midlands, B90 4RZ

Thank you both for your advice - I'd love to ignore them but am really worried if they issue me with a court summons - it would mean me having to pay for legal help I can ill afford.

I have written to them today to ask them to send all evidence that they believe entered me into a contract - paper and telephone conversations. Unfortunately, every solicitor I've been to will not give free advice due to the recent government changes that mean the CAB alone can do so. The one quote I've had from a solicitor was £200 up front, and even then they may say I'm liable.

Thanks for the two names, that will be my next port of call. I hope they're bluffing when they say they will issue papers on monday if I don't settle. Hopefully this letter will put them off for a few days while they gather up the necessary

Thanks again

PS I ceased my arrangement via letter after my bank advised me to go to the CCCS to clear my debt quicker - something gemstone are furious about and are demanding his name and role - like I can even remember it anyway!!!

They have refused telephone conversations to be sent to me direct and said they would only give them out if a solicitor or court requested them. I think they're bluffing. Does anyone know how much county court costs are if I attend court and lose?

Lets not worry about any Courts costs at this stage.

Your best way forward might be sending a full subject access request under the data protection act.

You can get all that you need for £10 including transcripts or an audio copy of the telephone calls,they cannot refuse you these,and if they have said they would only release them with a court order,this suggests they are available.

We can offer help and support here.

In refusing to deal with your appointed agents,they are in breach of OFT guidelines.

Whilst they might say that a contract is a contract,it does not mean that the terms of it were fair or balanced.

In your subject access you need to be asking for a copy of your agreement with proof that you accepted it.

Also a copy of all communications you have sent.

I would do an exhaustive one which leaves no room for them to be non compliant to.

If they issue proceedings,the burden of proof will rest with them to prove their loss and the breach of contract itself.

Ask yourself if they are likely to be able to do this ?

Once you have what you need to prove there is no liability,I would then file a complaint with your local Trading Standards and consider a claim for harassment.

ignore them

they can do nowt to you

you keep giving them hope they'll spoof you blind

dx

remember THEY CALLED YOU. YOU FELL FOR IT

I have just been alerted to this thread and as a consequence feel that a response should be posted in the interests of balance.

Firstly,

I am Clive Margetts, and

having searched through the handful of complaints I have received directly in 12 years of business

I cannot find one from anyone called David.

It is therefore disappointing that someone would choose to post a complaint on a public forum

without first requesting a formal response from the company concerned.

Regardless, whilst I am unable to respond to any specific case on a public forum for obvious reasons

I can outline how my company operates, and am happy to explain:

At the time the post was made I note we issued all prospective new clients with a brochure with 17 pages of text

that explained amongst other things;

what we were (being a commercial firm),

the services we supplied,

the limitations of our services,

our fees charged

and (critically in this case) the fact we operated a 12 month service agreement.

Included in the brochure are 4 pages that set out our Terms of Business.

It is confirmed that a Letter of Authority in this case was signed.

and ALL our Letters of Authority state clearly that by signing the same

you are confirming that you have read and accept our Terms of Business.

This forms the contract and has been legally ratified.

In addition, the regulator at the time (being the Office of Fair Trading)

had reviewed the same via standard audit and not raised any issue in respect of the enforcement of the same.

Gemstone does (and always has) operated fixed fee services,

because I feel a company should just charge a fair fee for the work it undertakes and completes (but no more).

We charge this irrespective of the disposable income, so the more the customer can pay the more is paid off the debt.

Those that charge a percentage take an increasing fee as your circumstances improve,

some charging upwards of £100 per month, whereas we do not.

Naturally, we are familiar with the work of what was the CCCS, now StepChange.

Indeed, we have had many of their former clients convert to our services over the years

obviously believing that 'free' does not always result in the better option.

Moreover, I would point out that the debate over 'free' or 'fee' will never end,

and there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

Assuming that the Debt Management Company is competent,

the main disadvantage of using a commercial firm is of course the fact we charge for services.

The question should therefore come down to value.

I can only speak for my own firm, but would advise the largest introducer to my business today is existing or 'debt free' customer referrals.

This says more than I ever could.

It would seem from the summary provided by dj1982 that the debt management plan with ourselves never really got under way,

so it is impossible to surmise what may or may not have happened in this regard had the plan run for anything like the full term.

I can advise that on average we save our customers significantly more than £45 per month we charge in interest rate concessions

which we vigorously pursue on behalf of our clients.

Indeed, it is the personalised service and availability of professional expertise

(I only employ credit professionals within my business presently) that people pay for.

The fact is that we have never had to litigate to enforce our contract to date.

Given this I assume that despite our justified legal right to pursue the fees due for a service contract with dj1982,

the party concerned was treated more than fairly.

At this juncture, I would counter suggestions made by some to ignore demands for payment,

because in my experience (twenty plus years as a debt recovery professional) this is not good advice.

If you are not happy, request a copy of the formal complaints procedure and escalate the matter.

Had dj1982 done this I have no doubt the matter would have been resolved swiftly and no doubt to their satisfaction,

as we are very reasonable people (believe it or not).

In conclusion,

I would advise that we have not always utilised a 12 month service contract, but experience led us to do so.

The reason is simple.

At the outset of any debt management plan (DMP) there is a lot of work to complete and, as a consequence, on average

our business was not making any profit at all until month 6 - 8 of the plan.

A DMP is not a quick fix and customers leaving after a few months for whatever reasons meant that apart from not recognising the benefits

of a well managed DMP they were delivering a loss for our business,

which can only ever detract from the service provision given to those who do pay and are committed.

The 12 month service agreement is therefore a commercial choice we made,

and we know that many prospective customers have chosen not to proceed for this reason alone.

I respect that and would never want anyone to commit to something they were not comfortable with.

I know my front-end advisers are very open about the Service Agreement in any initial discussion,

and it is reinforced what we offer in writing prior to any customer commitment.

After 12 months, a customer can leave us without penalty yet hardly anyone does.

Why? I assume it is because our customers are generally happy.

You do realise you have posted on a three year old thread and the OP has not come back to update cag

You do realise you have posted on a three year old thread and the OP has not come back to update cag

I did wonder myself as this person has also posted on a thread that's 5 years old!!!

I've heard of late post but never late postings! Lol

Yes we are aware of this company as you can see by their user title.

As this thread is so old and they have had their right of reply this thread is now closed.

The OP can PM a member of the Site Team if they want it re-opened.