Hi

I have a natwest credit card which has a balance outstanding of £4863. We were experiencing financial problems due to health and job losses in 2008 and 2009. I wrote to Natwest along with all my other creditors and offered them a monthly payment of £70. The minimum payment at the time was about £120 and I couldnt afford it. I got a letter back saying they were issuing a default notice.

The account had been open since 1997 and maintained properly until 2008, they agreed to accept the £70 for six months freezing interest and charges but did say that it was below their acceptable minimum. But in the same letter they advised that the £70 was unacceptable and they were issuing a default - the arrears at date of the default were £81.

I have been making the payments they ask for every month without fail. They review my account every 6 months and the balance has reduced from 6754.07 to the above since October 2009. I got a letter last week saying that as I had failed to respond to the previous demands they had no option but to commence legal proceedings against me. I rang them as I hadnt had any contact with them apart from a telephone call to say that my payment for June had not arrived - it arrived the next day (still within the month and on my statement it said thanks for faster payment) and they eventually apologised and said the threatening letter was sent in error, would be raised for internal investigation and that was the end of it but I am not sure that I trust them now.

Anyway that letter got me annoyed (I have done everything I was supposed to do i.e. asked for help, being making payments and fully intend paying back my debts) so I started searching for help and now I am totally confused.

I have looked back through statements and have paid charges of over the amount of the arrears quoted at time of default so is this default even legal?

I was going to write to them to express my annoyance at receiving the threats in the above letter but should I do that?

Has anyone been successful in reclaiming charges against Natwest?

I HATE having a default on my file as I did everything I was supposed to do and wasnt even in three months arrears at the time I received the notice. I am basing that on the fact the arrears was £81 as I cant find the statements relating to that period. I owe almost £20k on another credit card, have been making the payments I arranged to make and despite being five or six months in arrears they have just frozen the interest and put a notice on my file that I am on a payment arrangement that is up to date. They didnt issue a default yet I owe them a whole lot more money.

Can anyone clear my muddled brain and tell me what I should do?

Thanks a mil.

Its annoying I know. The default relates to the original terms of the account. You have defaulted and they are within their rights to default you. As annoyed as you feel (I've been in the same place) a DN is actually better for you longer term than an AP as it drops off your CRA file after 6 years whereas an AP (arrangement to pay) stays on forever. It does mean that they can (and will) teminate the account and then sell it on. If they sell it on with an arrangement to pay in place and interest froizen at zero then that is what should stay. DCAs are actaully easier to deal with longer term as they are inclined to accept F&Fs which OC's are not. They sell it on for tax purposes (I believe courtesy of Brigs!). I know it stings when you have done everything you can. Try not to take it personally. You are a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper and they do this with everyone. Others will be along and you can start to look at your options moving forward.

Its annoying I know. The default relates to the original terms of the account. You have defaulted and they are within their rights to default you. As annoyed as you feel (I've been in the same place) a DN is actually better for you longer term than an AP as it drops off your CRA file after 6 years whereas an AP (arrangement to pay) stays on forever. It does mean that they can (and will) teminate the account and then sell it on. If they sell it on with an arrangement to pay in place and interest froizen at zero then that is what should stay. DCAs are actaully easier to deal with longer term as they are inclined to accept F&Fs which OC's are not. They sell it on for tax purposes (I believe courtesy of Brigs!). I know it stings when you have done everything you can. Try not to take it personally. You are a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper and they do this with everyone. Others will be along and you can start to look at your options moving forward.

Thank you so much for coming on and answering my queries - I thought no one was going to help me and wasnt quite sure why

I think I am more worried now lol. Do you mean that MBNA who I have the arrangement to pay with will sell on that debt? They have said they are happy with my account and as long as it is paid every month they wont do anything. And when you say the arrangement to pay stays on forever does it not drop off when the account has been paid off and closed? Or is it six years after that?

Sorry I am very new to all of this and to be honest it scares the daylights out of me. Yeah you are right - I shouldnt be annoyed as I did default but I just thought that banks would be willing to help if you had genuine reasons and had been a good customer. You live and learn though right?

I am guessing I should start to reclaim charges though or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks for your help

I copied the below from a 200 entry old post -which I cant now find. The person writing the post credited the below to The Shadow so I hope I havent done anything wrong by copying it here. I tried to link to the post but I am not allowed as I dont have enough posts.

I was hoping someone could explain if this might apply in my case. I have a Natwest default that was issued when my arrears were £81. I have to send a SAR request but from statements I have found I paid £120 in £12 charges in the two years prior to the default when my hubby lost his job etc and we had financial problems. Could this mean that if I am successful in reclaiming my charges that the default is not legitimate and should be removed as the balance on the default notice was related to an account with unlawful charges on it?

14. Furthermore, the Arrears Total outlined cannot be accurate, as the Balance on the Account was at least partly comprised of Unlawful Charges plus additional Charges and interesticon added unlawfully whilst the Account was in Dispute. Therefore, the Arrears claimed cannot be accurate, as they are themselves calculated using a Total that was itself inaccurate.

credit cards/loans/mortgages yes

bank accounts no chance!

dx

Is this for a Credit Card?

It is extremely hard to get a default removed even if it has the wrong amounts on it!

Jogs

credit cards/loans/mortgages yes

 

bank accounts no chance!

 

dx

Yes it is a Natwest credit card. I have had the account since 1997, made most if not all the payments until hubby lost job and then had to start juggling but kept fairly up to date with it . It was only when I asked them to help by letting me pay a lower amount that they defaulted the account. I should have just kept paying as much as I could afford which was about £20 or £30 less than the min figure and let them charge me rather than getting a default.

So should I hit them with the SAR first, reclaim charges and then try to sort out default? Or do you want to point me to a thread on that? I have used the search key where i found that 200 plus post from 2008 but I cant find specific information to Natwest.

Thanks a mil for replying

Thanks for replying too Jogs. It is a credit card. My badly made point is that I wouldnt have a default if the charges were recredited as the charges I have paid are more than the amount of the default and thats before I get the SAR sorted i.e. only from the few statements I kept. I was trying to keep up payments but every month was a little short which is why I got hit by the £12 virtually every month for one year.

Thanks for replying too Jogs. It is a credit card. My badly made point is that I wouldnt have a default if the charges were recredited as the charges I have paid are more than the amount of the default and thats before I get the SAR sorted i.e. only from the few statements I kept. I was trying to keep up payments but every month was a little short which is why I got hit by the £12 virtually every month for one year.

What I would do (and this is what I'd do) Is request the full refund of all charges on the account and the removal of the default. I would make this a LBA and gibe them 14 days to comply. Should they not be forthcoming, I would hit them with a Court claim for the charges and removal of the default on the grounds that it was made up of unfair charges.

Jogs

What I would do (and this is what I'd do) Is request the full refund of all charges on the account and the removal of the default. I would make this a LBA and gibe them 14 days to comply. Should they not be forthcoming, I would hit them with a Court claim for the charges and removal of the default on the grounds that it was made up of unfair charges.

 

Jogs

Thanks Jogs - can I ask you one more question please. I assume I should first do a SAR though as I dont know how much in charges I have paid since the account was opened in 1997?

Thanks Jogs - can I ask you one more question please. I assume I should first do a SAR though as I dont know how much in charges I have paid since the account was opened in 1997?

Yes, if you don't have a full history then SAr them. Be prepared for them to only send 6 years worth of statements (charges) though.

They really should have EVERYTHING from when the account was opened, but they flout this rule all the time.

ok

the situation is:

if you can PROVE the default charges were solely responsible for the over limit, then if you reclaim, the default markers must be removed as they have shot themselves in the foot

however, if you were already overlimit because of YOUR spending, then , no you stand no chance, the charges just put you futher over the limit

you cant sum all the charges up, remove that balance from the outstanding and then claim its under credit limit, so remove the markers please.

dx

Thank you thank you and thank you

Thats the first time I have smiled about this account in a long time. I found a letter in the template library I will use and see how I go. Thank you again Jogs.

ok

 

the situation is:

 

if you can PROVE the default charges were solely responsible for the over limit, then if you reclaim, the default markers must be removed as they have shot themselves in the foot

 

however, if you were already overlimit because of YOUR spending, then , no you stand no chance, the charges just put you futher over the limit

 

you cant sum all the charges up, remove that balance from the outstanding and then claim its under credit limit, so remove the markers please.

 

dx

Thanks DX - I hadnt used the account in ages. As far as I know I never exceeded the credit limit but I couldnt always pay the full amount of the min repayment. So I would have to pay £12 one month and then the minimum payment in month two would be a higher amount as it includes the bit you missed from the last month so I would get hit by another £12 charge that time as well. So I think the £81 was charges - I will get the SAR and check though.

They issued a default notice when I sent them an income and expenditure spreadsheet and an offer of £70 per month as they said the offer wasnt acceptable. That happened in October 09 and then the default was registered in December 09 when they froze interest and charges.

Thanks again to you and Jogs for helping me.

great poss looking good then.

if you were not overlimit, spent nowt, then found you were overlimit, then it must be because of charges, so you should be able to get them recinded.

obv is not as simple as that, because you have re-occuring purchase int to include, but its worth a punt, even if for the charges reclaim

dont forget ppi too?

dx

dx

Don't forget to click my star

:lol::lol:

i did

dx

great poss looking good then.

 

if you were not overlimit, spent nowt, then found you were overlimit, then it must be because of charges, so you should be able to get them recinded.

 

obv is not as simple as that, because you have re-occuring purchase int to include, but its worth a punt, even if for the charges reclaim

 

dont forget ppi too?

 

dx

 

dx

Thanks DX

I dont have PPI on anything (at least I did something right lol) and I am useless with excel but I think I can get someone to work it out for me

Will get onto the SAR thing first though and make sure I get all information right back to 1997

Thanks again

Don't forget to click my star

I did and thank you - I didnt realise that was the thanks button.

Thanks DX.

I just wanted to see if the blob came up green or grey!

Yours was green, but my last 5 were grey and my rep points stayed at 992!

Strange!

AFAIK no-one can bad rep you bar a select few.strange

dx

Pity that you did not take this up with the FOS in 2009,from what you say it looks like they were in breach of the banking code,and you were treated quite unfairly.

Thanks DX.

 

I just wanted to see if the blob came up green or grey!

 

Yours was green, but my last 5 were grey and my rep points stayed at 992!

 

Strange!

After 5 subsequent blocks do appear a lighter green.

Not sure what you mean by grey-there are no grey ones.

I will take a look at your rep stats to make sure all is in order there.

But just to give you a heads up-the more rep a user has who is giving it,the more points the recipient will get added.

A user giving rep who has only a small count themselves therefore may not affect your rep points count.

Jogs your rep count is now 1042.

You probably wont see that until you log out and back in again-but I just checked and can see.

Thanks Martin, I noticed it went up when DX repped me.

On the rep list, most of the blocks on the left are green and then there is a comment.

The last few have been grey and then a comment (always good) but the rep points stayed at 992.

That 992 didn't go up until repped by DX earlier. The OP I think then repped me but I got another grey block by his comment.

Maybe its because they are mostly new posters!

Jog