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    • Hello, I am a private seller and recently sold a pair of trainers on eBay.  Everything seemed fine until just after the eBay 30 day mbg had expired.  The buyer contacted me with photos showing me that both shoes had ripped.  He wanted his money back, and after refusing to refund him, he then left me retaliatory and defamatory feedback on my profile to the effect that I had sold him fake trainers (this was removed by eBay).  He then initiated a chargeback via Paypal.  Invariably, the outcome was in his favour, and I have now been charged for the cost of the trainers.  I would have also been stung for the chargeback fee, but eBay refunded this.  Incidentally, I do have the email receipt of the trainers from when I bought them from a well-established and bona fide online retailer.  The susbequent conversation with eBay followed its predictable course, i.e. the chargeback is out of their hands etc. I have been in contact with citizens advice, and my bank.  Citizens advice told me that as a private seller I'm responsible for the "Title and description" of the goods, but not the performance, or the fitness for purpose.  To me it is clear; if you receive something that's not as described, you don't then use the goods, and more than 30 days later claim 'not as described'.  In my mind, this makes the claim fraudulent.  He's used the 'they're fake' card to give credence to a 'not as described' claim here, obviously, without any evidence.  My understanding is that the chargeback is unlawful, because the trainers were shipped as described.  However, I read something on an eBay forum regarding sellers having no statutory rights, i.e. no right to appeal against a chargeback decision, or to complain to the financial ombudsman.  Does this mean that if my bank disputes the charge on my behalf, it will be to no avail, even if it's recognisably a fraudulent chargeback?  I have reported it via the Actionfraud website. Any advice, anyone?  Would be most grateful!
    • Thank you, I have drafted my letters and started to complete the reply form, printed from this site and not using the one they provided.    2 questions, on the forum link it says to tick box D & I, the reason for box D will be given on my thread, what would my answer be to "I dispute the debt"?  Do I send anything for the Vodafone debt they have included?  I've only done 118 loan s. 77 & capital one credit cards so. 78    Thank you  
    • It'll be something to the effect of:  "I am in receipt of your letter before claim.  I was awaiting a passenger as a licensed cab driver on the Locton estate who subsequently cancelled the pickup after me waiting a while and will fight this in the small claims court if necessary. Plus I have friends who are experts in contractual law and make it their business to defeat these spurious PPC claims.  So issue the claim form or go forth and multiply, up to you"
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Nationwide first.Lloyds last but not least ***WON***


lancsman
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I hammered off a request to Nationwide first,initial refusal.Letter before action next,meanwhile i sent request for refund of charges to Lloyds Credit card.Theyve acknowledged and will get back to me in 5 days when theyve investigated further!

isn,t it a shame by that time,they will have recieved my Data Protection Act request as per the suggested format in "templates"So know my intention to "rag them like my dog does a bone "untill satisfaction and a just outcome.for all the worry of how the h..l am i going to exsist,pay our bills,eat AND PAY CHARGE UPON CHARGE!!!!!

When i first went to see them,very helpfull would increase our overdraft in time and suggested i take their Credit Card as it was interest free for 5 months.I take it they,re on some sort of commission?

Anyway Roll..ks to them i,ve moved my side of the account (wife,s still with them)Now to Play.

 

Bitterness is going to make them pay too

john r

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Well i sent the letter asking for a measly £40.00 back! Peanuts to them, FORTY POUNDS TO ME. They replied saying a senior blah de blah would look at it and theyd reply in 5 working days.

Got that Wed 29th,That would beTuesday4thfor a reply.Its nearly friday7th.So with our post being so bad i,l give em till Saturday then file at the local court...but i,l ask the Clerk tomorrow bout Moneyclaim..

 

tiddly pom the clock ticks

john r

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Reply to your last Alan from derby letter came today from Service Recovery Centre Brighton. whilst not admitting charges were excessive blah de blah as a gesture of good will blah de blah arranging refund of the two charges......

 

All ive got to do now is check out and see if it,s actually refunded a small victory at the 11th hour.Before i proceeded with a small claim

john r

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  • 2 weeks later...

Checked the creditcard account and indeed twas REFUNDED now i just had a problem of how to get it out £10.00 was easy,sent it in AMAZING VOUCHERS to you know who.

 

My D.P.A. letter went out 30th March.Ive heard nothing so ive E - mailed that nice Mrs Penny Berryman(she probably is),its not the staff its the regime were fighting....

I,l let you know of more developments.

 

Read LOTTALITTLIES story inspiring...

john r

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Hi all got my D.P.A.s back how confusing arethey?just added a note to Loula,s thread bout what their abbreviations are.Going to take a bit of fathoming out but there,s definitly charges to reclaim.

 

(E-mailed Dear Penny a few days ago,got one back to say they,d find out progress. of course was away and they turned up great wodge of them Crossed in the post you might say.....

 

 

I,l let you know boys and girls.

john r

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Can you run the NW claim on the NW forum please

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Ran my last message here,because its Lloyds i,m now battling with.I won with Nationwide and i thought that if people see any progress with my claim they could always ask me for a copy of wot i wrote or look in the Nationwide forum cos its the same law were using just different banks if i knew how to ammend the title i would but then it would be a different thread and wouldn,t be at the beginning if that makes sense...

 

Here is an ammended copy i wrote to Nationwide that won ammended to Lloyds...

 

Mr & Mrs xxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx 27thApril2006

xxxxxxxx xxxxx Cottage

xxxxxxxx xxxxRoad

xxxx xxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

Lincolnshire

xxx xxxx

 

Customer care

Lloyds Tsb

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3sf

 

Account no'xx-xx-xx/xxxxxxxx

 

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF UNFAIR AND ILLEGAL BANK CHARGES

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Having recieved and studied information sent under D.P.A.request,on charges levied against our account over the last six years I now present you with my findings.

 

I understand from recent information that these fees in relation to charges brought about by direct debit refusals,exceeding overdraft limits and so on,are unlawfull at commom law,statute and recent consumer regulations.

 

Do bear in mind that;

1. Bank charges are not legally enforcable if they are penalties.Penalty clauses in contracts under English and Scottish law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party.

 

2.This is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act(unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts).

 

3.Notwithstanding the fact that we signed an agreement with yourselves regarding Account Terms and Conditions.It is also an implied term of that contract to operate my account under English Law.Which by definition you are abusing by excessive "charges"which do not reflect the true cost to yourselves of operating my account.

 

Your terms and conditions do not supersede common law.

 

4.My wife has been a customer of yours through a large part of her adult life.Operating her account with you,many,many times,well in credit.Allowing yourselves to use and profit greatly 24 hours a day from any excess funds in her account.

 

I calculate from our statements from 2000 to April 2006 (notwithstanding a number of charges that were negotiated and refunded) that you have taken £1xxx.xx.

 

WE REQUIRE REPAYMENT IN FULL OF THIS MONEY AND IF YOU DO NOT COMPLY FULLY WITHIN 14 DAYS THEN WE SHALL FORWARD "LETTER BEFORE ACTION".

 

IF AFTER A FURTHER 14 DAYS YOU HAVE NOT FULLY REFUNDED SAID CHARGES THEN WE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO ISSUE A SUMMONS THROUGH THE SMALL CLAIMS COURT

 

THIS FOR THE FULL AMOUNT. PLUS INTEREST AT 8%. PLUS MY COSTS.WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE OR DIALOGUE.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

John xxxxx xxx (For Mr & Mrs xxx xx xxxxxxxxx).

john r

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E-Mail recieved back from Lloyds

 

Is this what everyone gets back first?

 

Thank you for the e-mail.

 

I am sorry to learn that you appear unhappy over the level of charges you have incurred on your Lloyds TSB account.

 

Under the circumstances, your e-mail has been passed on to the Manager of the Complaints Unit within Service Recovery. I have asked that he notes your comments and issues raised and arranges for a response be sent to you at the earliest opportunity.

 

In case you haven't received a copy of our leaflet called 'How to voice your concerns' I've attached one to my e-mail. This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

 

Regards

 

Keith Boden

Lloyds TSB - Service Recovery

Birmingham

 

"I,m sorry to learn you appear unhappy" Are they joking!!!!!! They,ve ripped my wife off for years,with excessive charge after charge. In one month early 2000, when she was a contract cleaner,eaning a pittance (national basic wage,£4.00 odd was it?)for excessively long hours,they took £70.00 off her not a lot to some but % wise a big chunk of her wage.She didn,t tell me just struggled on.Unhappy i am(youda) you betcha....

john r

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well it,s now 15th May and Lloyds have had there 14 days.Sent "letter before action"by recorded delivery. Also e-mailed looks like all the way boys and girls.

 

Mr & Mrs ************ 14thMay2006

************

******* *****

****

*****

******

 

Service Recovery Centre

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3sf

 

Your ref BHAM/DJ/CC/****** (Account no'**-**-**/********)

 

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE 1999 CONSUMER CREDIT ACT(UNFAIR TERMS IN CONSUMER CONTRACTS)

SUPPLY OF GOODS AND SERVICES ACT.

OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING.DIRECTIVE APRIL2006

 

DO TAKE NOTICE THAT I AM ISSUING "LETTER BEFORE ACTION"

 

Dear Mr Just

 

Thank you for your letter dated 2cd May 2006 I note the contents.

 

Notwithstanding your comments,the rules that apply to these transactions,charges,etc(as outlined below) still stand and therefore your charges come under those terms.Furthermore the Office of Fair Trading,s directive of 5th April 2006 re-enforces the case against excessive charges.

 

As you very well know these fees in relation to charges brought about by direct debit refusals,exceeding overdraft limits and so on,are unlawfull at commom law,statute and recent consumer regulations.

 

Do bear in mind that;

1. Bank charges are not legally enforcable if they are penalties.Penalty clauses in contracts under English and Scottish law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party.

 

2.This is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act(unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts).

 

3.As regards the fact that we signed an agreement with yourselves regarding Account Terms and Conditions.It is an implied term of that contract,to operate our account under English Law.Which by definition you are abusing by excessive "charges"which do not reflect the true cost to yourselves of operating the account

 

4.Your terms and conditions do not supersede common law.

 

5.My wife has been a customer of yours through a large part of her adult life.Operating her account with you,many,many times,well in credit.Allowing yourselves to use and profit greatly 24 hours a day from any excess funds in her account.

 

6.May i bring your attention to an interview with your one time "Head of Personal Banking"Mr McNamara in 2004 on Radio 4.In this interview he makes it clear that charges are used to fund free banking for the whole population.

7.It is widely known that in similar circumstances other banks have been known to re-fund unfair charges.

 

As previously stated i calculate from our statements from 2000 to April 2006 (notwithstanding a number of charges that were negotiated and refunded) that you have taken and therfore owe £****.** in unfair charges

 

WE REQUIRE REPAYMENT IN FULL OF THIS MONEY IF YOU DO NOT COMPLY FULLY WITHIN 14 DAYS THEN WE SHALL

 

BEGIN A CLAIM AGAINST YOU FOR THE FULL AMMOUNT PLUS INTEREST PLUS MY COSTS WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE

 

I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the O.F.T. under the basis that you have failed to comply with the directive of 5th April 2006 and are therfore not a "fit and proper person"to hold a consumer credit licience under the above act.

 

Your Legal Department will have further information if you are unclear what this means

 

 

Yours faithfully

john r

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  • 4 weeks later...

Usual crap back from Lloyds that everyone gets.Why they won,t just pay BACK i don,t know...

 

Anyway they,ve had ample time to change their mind so iv,e now entered Moneyclaim (e-mailed admin with details)

 

Suffice to say they have untill 26 june!!!!!to enter a defence.

 

Tick,tock. tum-tee-tum will be interesting to see what their defence will be.

 

Service or Penalty?If its a service then the profit they are making is excessive.

anyway must jot down some of the arguments onto my "notepad"got loads there allready hows everyone else doing with dear old Lloyds..anyone NOT seen there new advert!!!!

john r

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi folks well they Acknowledged Moneyclaim (6QZ36566) with a letter like"returned to sender"got.No mention of a Part 18 refered to! Now awaiting book from C.A.G. in order to fight them better.

I will ask them if their request for information is under part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules?As they haven,t asked.

Pulling my hair out trying to copy the letter from scanner to adobe(that bit ok)Can,t get it to go on here!tTum te tum! going for a lie down!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

lancsman

john r

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Hi Nic.If i had tried to work out the interest any more i would have never got the claim in.It wasn,t the Daily Interest that was a problem to work out, it was having no access to any spreadsheets.I could,nt access some and others were taking so long to download(no Broadband available!)my server kept cutting them off!

 

I was indeed pulling my hair out,so put the claim in for total owed over 6 yeays then tried to get 8%per year figure(116.59!)x by 6 and left it at that,fully considering/expecting that Lloyds would enter into a dialogue (eventually) and that they could surely work out the interest better than i.Or we could reach an amicable compromise.

I know i,m not the only one who has been unable to download the correct programmes read of someone else who was going to do similar and let lloyds work it out.(after all if they had purely paid up the actual loss to me then we would,nt be thinking about any %)

I don,t want to fleece Lloyds just want them to pay what they owe.If they can work it out better than me so be it.

I have been asked by their solicitors to give a list of individual charges,and dates

how i calculate any interest and this is the best bit,how i calculate the sum of £2,2151.57 i think they have slipped an extra "2" in there as i copied the court(moneyclaim)and it wasn,t as much as that!!!

So i,m just going to send them the ammount of each charge and the date,they only need that.(i,m waiting for the book Judge Patricia ....wrote,so i can try and reply fairly to Lloyds.

john r

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Glad you are aware that interest has not been calculated "by the book" it may be that the solicitors may try to make something of this - however shouldn't detract from the claim a) as they will not go to court and b) if they did I am confident that the judge will think that at least you have made an estimate to the best of your knowledge. Good luck!

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Thanks nik

Not only have i tried to estimate the interest,i will if it gets to court tell the judge that i have followed the correct procedures to try and settle amicably before taking it to the court and that i believe this particular bank are using the legal system to frighten people off.Other banks(Nationwide)settled amicably and fairly before involving the exspense to the taxpayer of the courts..

 

Before i was aware of the unlawfull nature of which the banks excessively charge for excess profit gains not purely an admin charge.I sent many a letter asking/pleading for help in using our account so that we would not fall fowl of the excessive fees which were crippling us.But they kept hitting us,for profit it is sickening after my wife put so much trust,so much loyal faith in them.

 

Feduciary was it?i don,t think so.

john r

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Hi Guys n Gals n BANKS!!

 

I have now compiled my reply to the Sechiari trio of Brighton witth the help of Bankfodder and Patricia Pearls book.

 

Given them dates and ammounts and statement references only.

 

Told them its not Stricktly Private and Confidential and that their letter particularily the last paragraph would appear threatening to an ordinary Layperson.

Well it does,

"In the event that we do not hear from you at the end of this period,we may be instructed to apply for your Claim to be struck out on the grounds that it does not disclose any reasonable cause of action against our Client Bank,together with an Order for Costs in the Defendant,s favour. We trust that you will note this particular point".

 

Also mentioned to them that the District Judge when awarding Order for Costs takes into account and may be unsympathetic to a party who has tried to threaten their oponent. Read intimidate?

 

fingers xd

john r

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again

Ive tried looking in F.A.Q.but not sure if i,m doing it right!

If you have filed on Moneyclaim should you send the court any correspondence you recieve from Lloyds solicitors,with a copy of your reply and if so were to?

 

looked in Moneyclaims F.A.Q.website too NO ANSWER.

 

sORRY IF I,M NOTMAKING MUCH sense as i,m feeling as rough as Lloyds butchers dog...night nuight and its not the drink!.wish the bankmanager,s felt like this.no offence to the fair ones.

john r

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Hi Lancsman,

 

Presumably Northampton isn't your local county court? If not, then you don't need to take any further action. Looking at your progress so far, they acknowledged the claim on 17/06? Presumably this means they've now filed their defense?

 

If this is the case, the claim will automatically be referred to your local county court. From your local court you will receive a copy of Lloyd's defense and a court allocation questionnaire, which is due to be returned within 14 days. It's around about now that Lloyds start getting fidgety and considering whether to offer you a settlement ;)

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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Hello reload,They filed an acknowledgement of service (wed14thJune)"in order that we may file our client,s defence to these proceedings in due course".

By their calculations this must be filed and served no later than 4.00pm on friday 7th July(this week).They asked for further info.Each and every amount.Dates of each and every charge.Replied after Bankfodder kindly checked out their letter.

So with your info i will just sit tight and wait till friday to see their defence..

ta all.

john r

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Best of luck to the both of you - but chances are they'll probably file on Thursday :rolleyes:

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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Yes me ducks as they say in Lincolnshire,they have filed their defence,seems in the same vein as others i,ve seen.

 

Will send it to admin when i can get "it"to copy.

 

Filling in allocation questionaire going to re-phrase "JONIBADS" other info bit on "feduciary"and "breakdown of costs involved in managing specific wrongdoings of customer/ charges incurred".

 

Last day to hand in A.Q.25th july,in my local court.

 

Think i might wait a little while see if they sweat!!!but will be sure to hand it in before that date appen a week before.

john r

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