Hi everyone,

I wondered whether anyone had complaint to Ombudsman Services Property before and had been treated in an unfair manner by the investigating officer?

I for once had a complaint which was resolved by this Ombudsman. Although it was eventually resolved, it took a while since the investigating officer (i feel tempted to name and shame here) dragged her feet until the Lead Ombudsman had to intervene.

I complained about this officer, but no response until today and it has been three months now. I suspect they simply brushed my complaint about this ape under the carpet. I wrote to the people in the complaint procedure such as the Director of Corporate Service and Independent Assessor, but to no avail.

Does anyone know how I can take this further?

Ta muchly

What complaints can the Ombudsman Services: Property deal with?

The Ombudsman Services: Property can sort out complaints about chartered surveying firms, surveyors, estate agents, residential managing agents and other property professionals from consumers using their services.

The Ombudsman Services: Property can only look at your problem if one of its members is involved so it is important that you check this first. A list of its members is available on its website at: http://www.os-property.org.

See: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/civil_rights/how_to_use_an_ombudsman.htm#ombudsman_services:_property

You can contact The Property Ombudsman giving full details of the complaint. The address of the Property Ombudsman is:

Beckett House

4 Bridge Street

Salisbury

Wiltshire SP1 2LX

Tel: 01722 333 306

Fax: 01722 332 296

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: www.tpos.co.uk

See: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/civil_rights/how_to_use_an_ombudsman.htm#ombudsman_services:_property

What if the Ombudsman does NOT support my complaint?

The Ombudsman's case review containing his proposed decision together with a copy of the agent's submission and any relevant documents, which you may not have previously seen, will be sent to you first. You will have 28 days in which to accept the decision, or make your own representation.

What if I do NOT agree with the Ombudsman's decision? You can submit a representation within 28 days. However, the Ombudsman will only re-consider his proposed decision if:

• You can show that there was a significant error in fact that would have had a material effect on the decision,

• Or where you can produce significant new evidence that will have a material effect on the decision.

If you are unable to produce either of these, the Ombudsman will not be able to help you further.

Having considered any representations, the Ombudsman will make a Final Decision.

Please note that the TPO Scheme complaints process is designed so that complaints received, about an agent, start and finish with the Ombudsman. Having made a Final Decision, there is no avenue for appeal or further review of your complaint for either party within the Scheme.

If you decide to reject the ombudsman’s decision, you can decide what other action (including legal action) you may wish to take.

See: http://www.tpos.co.uk/faqs.htm

The Ombudsman Services Property offer a truly appalling service. I started my complaint over a year ago and to this day it is still not resolved. For some inexplicable reason, they even cancelled my complaint without telling me at one point. I had to dig my heals in to get it re-instated. Since then, I was forced to reword my complaint and compress it into so few words that it was difficult to explain. Earlier this year, the case officer who by the sound of her voice must be about 12 years old, made a first stage report based on very weak and selective evidence submitted by the agent I complained about. I provided the necessary proof to show the agent was lying and was told my complaint would be dealt with by the ombudsman herself within 6 weeks. That was 4 months ago! I have been writing in regularly to get an update but each time they say the Ombudsman is very busy. This week I got another letter to say that my complaint will be delayed by another six weeks.

I firmly believe that the Ombudsman is nothing but a protection racket for dodgy agents whose subscription fees prop up this dead beat quango. The Ombudsman use every delaying tactic in the book to shake off complainants who in most cases probably get bored and give up.

It is well understood that the Ombudsman is a racket run by the industry to fob-off complaints.

I've never heard of a case being decided in a tenant's favour.

You might be better off if you sue for negligence (you cannot sue for breach of contract, as the letting agent's contract is with the landlord, not with you), in a court.

I agree with all of you. The whole experience of using Ombudsman Services: Property is horrific. They do everything they can to defend surveyors / agents and simply ignore any points which cooberate your argument or which compromimse the position of the firm about which you are complaining. The complainant's strong evidence is simply cast aside while appaling evidence is accepted from the firm. Please can everyone contact Mr G (type ombudsmans61percent into google to find his blog and contact details), he's trying to get everyone together to challenge this 'dead beat quango'. We all need to work together if we'd going to get a review.

*compromise

Hello Thin Lizzie and thanks for what you said about the Ombudsman and her investigations.

At the moment I waiting to see if the Observer is interested in our story - been trying all the newspapers as we're very democratic here.

Talked with researchers at newsnight and will be meeting my MP on the 9th March when I will ask him to try and get answers to our complaint that the Ombudsman doesn't even follow her own rules.

If you contact us we'll get back to you - Sally did and has been on "Rip Off Britain," they edited what she had to say!

We just have to stay calm and carry on!

Best wishes

Steve G

The Ombudsman scheme is a voluntary scheme, and so does NOT have the force of law.

However much you complain, you are never going to achieve anything, because there is no procedure for appealling from an Ombudsman's decision, because the scheme is purely voluntary.

Lacking legal force, a decision of the Ombudsman can't be appealled in, or reviewed by, the courts.

The scheme will not be withdrawn as a result of your actions, because that alone might attract Government attention. The industry therefore has no incentive to withdraw the scheme.

The proper course of action, if you have a genuine complaint of malpractice against an Estate Agent or Lettings Agent, etc, is to sue the agent for negligence in the small claims court, perhaps with the assistance of the Citizens Advice Bureau.

Hello Ed - thanks for taking the time to contact us.

We hope - eventually - to achieve one of goals which is a judicial review of our cases. This is the only way to challenge an "Obudsman's" decision no matter how illogical it might be. Her decision that is, not us challenging it - we think that's a very logical thing to do!

But your point does call into question why it is we've sleepwalked into giving "Ombudsmen" so much power. It's a big stitch up when all's said and done because once RICS gave their Ombudsman all that power we as consumers are going to find it difficult - but not impossible - to get it back as it were.

The present system is unjust. Consumers have been mis-sold the promise of a "fair" and "independent" investigation of their complaint by a private company who have employed staff without the necessary wherewithall to do the job. They couldn't investigate their way out of a paper bag.

It needs a Levenson-like inquiry and the people who turned to this company need to have their cases independently reviewed and then to be compensated for what's happened to them.

Best wishes. Steve G.

You misunderstand. The Ombudsman does not have any power.

The Ombudsman scheme is a voluntary arrangement, with no legal effect. Whether or not you go through a complaint with the Ombudsman, your legal rights are not affected. You can still sue, in a court, in either case.

The purpose of the Ombudsman scheme is to give consumers a free means of raising a complaint oif malpractice, in a less complex forum than the court. It adds an extra option; it does not take away a tenant's legal rights - such as the right to sue in a court.

The purpose of the small claims division of the county court is to give a tenant a cheap means of suing for malpractice, in a relatively informal proceding, without being liable to pay the opponent's legal fees. This is called a claim for negligence. There is a small court fee, but no other cost; and the Citizens Advice Bureau can give advice and assistance in completing the application form.

You cannot get judicial review of the Ombudsman's decision, as that is for reviewing the decisions of statutory bodies, i.e. Govt departments and District or Borough Councils, that exercise administrative law functions. A voluntary scheme is not subject to the rules of administrative law.

You should not rely on any precedents you may have heard of concerning the Parliamentary Ombudsman, or the Local Govt ombudsman. Those Ombudsmen schemes are statutory, not voluntary; and therefore they are eligible for Judicial Review. But, in my opinion, a voluntary scheme is not.

Hello again Ed - here's an extract from a letter from The Independent Assessor for Ombudsman Services ( a person who claims to be independent but who uses the same headed notepaper and email address as his boss),

"In my letter I referred to the possibility of commencing judicial review proceedings......

I understand that you do not accept the Ombudsman's Final Decision. But I have to reiterate that there is no appeal against the decision of the Ombudsman (other than the possibility of a challenge in the courts), and none against mine."

This is why, Ed, we are campainging for a judicial review of all our cases. You have it from the horse's mouth, or Independent Assessor as he likes to be known, the only way to overturn this Ombudsman's is by judicial review. Appeals to logic, common sense, fairness or justice just won't wash with OS:Property.

I preferred their old name, the Surveyors Ombudsman Service - or SOS for short, at least the consumer had an idea they just might be that, a service for surveyors.

This makes the Ombudsman - no matter how illogical her thinking - incredibly and ridiculously powerful. And unless you're happy to sit back and let lots of other innocent people get taken to the cleaners, you have no other choice but try to do something about it.

Hence the Ombudsmans61percent Campaign!

Best wishes

Steve G.

Hello Thin - Lizzie and other victims of OS:Property. I managed to get on the You and Yours BBC Radio 4 programme today. If you have the time you could try going to their website and asking them to arrange a future phone-in on OS:Property.

Best wishes

Steve G.

Steve, seriously, take a step back and review what Ed999 has told you. I'm not a lawyer and I've had my disagreements with Ed but I have to say that he's making a very valid point and you're fighting the wrong battle. You wont get a judicial review of the "ombudsman's" decision because the ombudsman doesn't exist in law. There is therefore nothing for the judiciary to make a judgement on.

There are so many very real issues that you could be fighting on that would benefit tenants, why fight a spurious cause against an enemy that has no legal validity?

Hello Bedlington83,

I always try to take a step back and review everything before deciding what to do next.

OS:Property's "Independent Assessor" wrote,

"In my letter I referred to the possibility of commencing judicial review proceedings....

"But I have to reiterate that there is no appeal against the decision of the Ombudsman other than the possibility of a challenege in the courts, and none against mine."

We don't yet live in a police state Beddlington83 and either the "Independent Assessor" is right ie consumers still have the right to a judicial review or he's wrong and we don't.

I've been told he's right.

Hence the campaign's fight for a judicial review of our cases. You say, "There is nothing for the judiciary to make a judgement on." I hope what I've been able to tell shows that what you say is not the case.

I have been contacted by other consumers who say solicitors are offering them "no win no fee" offers to take cases against the Ombudsman.

Julia wrote to me saying,

"It has been eye wateringly ludicrous! We have suffered financial loss and severe health issues." For hundreds of consumers this isn't a "spurious cause" and we're sorry that you think so.

I've been evicted from a squat in Commercial Road, London and when I was a tenant on a houseboat came home to discover we'd been given a month to clear everything including ourselves out. Citizens Advice told us we had no legal protection and weren't even covered by The Mobile Homes Act. I then lived in the back of a car until something slightly less dangerous came up.

I have every sympathy for tenants and will gladly lend your cause my support.

Shouldn't we be finding ways to support each other and not seeking to undermine each other's fight for what each of us believes to be right?

Best wishes

Steve G.

If you think its a good idea to have a programme on OS:Property and the Ombudsman and her team who don't "understand the complexity of property complaints," can you take some to contact:

BBC Radio4 You and Yours. The programme was on Press Standards with Julian Worricker - there seem to be no newspaper that criticise the Ombudsman for OS:Property.

You can either click on Contact Us and leave a message or phone direct 03700 100 444

Best wishes

ombudsmans61percent

On their website it says:

"We are an alternative to the courts. If, when we have looked at your complaint, you are not happy with our decision you retain the right to ask the courts to consider the complaint."

So you don't need a judicial review. You might as well ask for a judicial review against Ed999 because you think he is wrong!

Having said that, there is nothing wrong in kicking up a stink about such services if they are not acting fairly. Their business is based on their reputation. If it is perceived that they are unfair then people won't use their service, or will more likely complain louder if they don't get the result they want.

Hello Steve_M,

This is all becoming a little bit strange.

The person who suggested a judicial review in the first place was the "Independent Assessor." But the whole issue of the legality of Ombudsman shemes is an important one and I'm the first to admit that I assumed that the Ombudsman sat at the right hand side of the Lord Chief Justice. However, the fact that Office of Fair Trading had approved the scheme led me to expect a "fair" and "independent" investigation of my complaint. Something we didn't get

The fact is in 2010 61% of complainants also believed the same. This has risen to 64% in 2011. They didn't get a fair result either. The company are going from bad to worse but they're still telling the consumer that their cases will be handled fairly and independently.

Ed999 hadn't promised me a fair or independent investigation of my case and as we're here to offer support to each other it doesn't seem helpful to say who is right or who is wrong.

It's the ombudsman and her team who don't seem to get their facts right. Hence the campaign for a "fair" and "independent" dispute resolutiion service free of RICS influence.

Best wishes

Steve G.

I for once had a complaint which was resolved by this Ombudsman. Although it was eventually resolved, it took a while since the investigating officer (i feel tempted to name and shame here) dragged her feet until the Lead Ombudsman had to intervene.

You appear to have admitted that the Omdudsman Service has satisfactorily resolved the complaint you lodged with them.

Game over!

Hi all! This is the only forum entry I could find about the OSP so I thought I would post in here. I had a full HomeBuyers Survey done by esurv last year prior to buying my home. The survey didn't note any structural problems with the main roof at all. Having gone ahead with the purchase and moved in I looked in the loft and found that all the roof supports had been sawn away, presumably in some dim-witted attempt at a loft conversion or similar. Basically the roof was totally unsupported and was in danger of collapse. I had a structural engineers report done, which basically told me to move out of the house pronto.

Since then I have had nothing but excuses and other flannel from esurv. I threatened legal action and esurv themselves actually recommended the OSP In hindsight I should have stuck to my guns but I opted for the OSP service, it being free and all! Anyway, long story short, at the moment (nearly 12 months on) it is still with the OSP. They issued their findings in March 2012, stating that esurv should have noticed and reported the roof issue, no huge surprises there. The estimate for repairing the roof is around £14k. The OSP have awarded me £5500, a reduced amount because they believe I will end up with a "better roof" and so have reduced the award to allow for "betterment". I have never heard such utter nonsense in my life!

The whole process has taken months because the OSP have repeatedly written to esurv to ask for their comments. esurv haven't responded so the OSP have continued to give them time to respond and chased them up for weeks on end. In my humble opinion, if someone doesn't answer to an accusation the OSP should just crack on and make their decisions based on the complaint and the information they actually have available!!

Anyway, I have appealed the findings with the OSP and it is now being looked at again. If they come back with the same nonsense I think I will pull out and just take esurv to court. Not entirely sure which court, or how but I will find a way!

I try to leave customer feedback with esurv but they wouldn't put it on their website (no surprises there) so I have set up my own website. I little naughty and perhaps a bit risky but hey there is not a word on the website which isn't provable as fact. Not sure whether I can post the website details on here, but I am sure a mod will let me know in time...?

"Betterment" sounds daft - if the survey had been done professionally it would have told you the roof was shot - then you could have either pulled out or negotiated the cost of a new roof. If you couldn't negotiate a new roof you could have still pulled out. £5000 isn't even half the cost!

It's also wrong to keep you waiting months just because the surveyor won't reply - if OS:Property charged them £100 a week for the delay they'd soon get their act together - by OS:P won't because their salaries are paid for by the surveyors subscriptions!

You could also blog your case and case number!

Sounds like with your struuctural survey you stand a good chance in court.

Best wishes - ombudsmans61percent

blogging my case and case number sounds interesting. i am new to the online world so may need to google that one! I have managed to set up a website though, and posted a link on the e.surv Facebook page. Naughty but good fun! Can I post my website link on here???

I've just filed a complaint against my estate agency for not returning my holding deposit. Let's see where this goes!

Well fingers crossed for you Purple_Rain. I hope it works out for you. Unfortunately I expect your progress to be slow, but that doesn't mean you won't get there in the end! Please let me know how you get on!!!

Thanks I will I've also emailed Citizens Advice Bureau the consumer division. Hopefully they will deal with it. I want my holding deposit back!!!

Same problem here. The surveyor missed deadlines, so they were simply extended. No request was made by the surveyor for OSP to do this, they just did it automatically when the original deadline came and went.

When this extended deadline expired and there was still no response, we got excited - hoping that OSP would issue a Decision... but, still, they didn't. They sat on all of the information for a further two weeks, not doing anything. We couldn't understand the delay. 'Just decide!!' we thought!

At the end of this extra fortnight, the surveyor finally responded and their evidence was accepted without question.

Whilst we understand that all sides need to be heard, it was very disappointing. In the same situation a Court would have issued Judgment by Default. We thought that, whilst they are not a 'legal' entity as such, OSP are meant to follow legal principles.

I wonder if they would have made the same allowances if our information had been so late?

At the beginning, we believed they were impartial. We thought that despite their constitution, funding and policies they could still be unbiased. Having been through the process we no longer believe this to be the case and we can point to many material examples of how the process is deeply flawed and heavily weighted in favour of the very professionals it is supposed to investigate. As a consumer, you are on the back foot from the moment you ask them to investigate.

Yes, you can still go to Court... but I don't fancy your chances! Certainly not after there has been a full investigation by the respectable & impartial industry 'Ombudsman' who has ruled against you... and certainly not after your surveyor has had an opportunity to build a watertight defense based on all of your evidence, which the Ombudsman has disclosed to them.

Judicial Review, name and shame, whatever... at the end of the day, there should be clear distinction between these guys (limited company, selected by RICS to protect its members) who operate a VOLUNTARY Ombudsman scheme and the respectable STATUTORY Ombudsman.

Until grim experience teaches the difference, there is no hope for the befuddled consumer.