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Taking eBay to court - Money Claim Online


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"See you in court" were among my last words during the most recent conversation with the eBay call centre in April 2011.

 

Way back on the 17th of February 2011 I ordered a Macbook Pro which cost £570 from an eBay user who was later removed from their system for being a suspicious seller. The seller received five negative feedbacks in two weeks for attempting to con other eBay members.

 

On the 22nd of February I received a very poorly drafted letter from the seller stating I will not receive the Macbook Pro, and the seller advised me to open an “item not received” case with eBay.

 

The seller tracked this letter through Royal Mail and provided the tracking number to eBay to suggest the Macbook Pro had been delivered, when in fact the tracking number corresponds to the letter and not the Macbook.

 

Having spent nearly ten thousand pounds on eBay in January and February of 2011, as well as being the director of an online consumer electronics store, I was well aware that this letter seemed very suspicious and I did not open an “item not received” case as this would have won in the sellers favour by default.

 

I immediately contacted the UK police and reported this matter to them, who responded with a crime reference number.

 

Shortly after contacting the police, I reported the matter to eBay on the telephone and an “item not as described” case was opened. At this stage, I was assured that I was covered by eBay buyer Protection and I would get my money back.

 

To cut a long story short, eBay decided to close the case in the seller’s favour, despite having removed the suspicious seller from their system. They obviously did not take into account my 100% positive account with over 400 feedbacks on high value items.

 

After appealing the case and contacting the customer service department numerous times, I was continually faced with “we need a police report from your local police station” before they refund my money and if I do not produce this within 3 days, my case will be closed permanently.

 

Having already contacted the police, I was happy to attend my local police station with all the evidence, but was disappointed to find that as part of police policy, they would not write a letter or produce a police report for what is a ‘civil’ matter. The only documentation they could possibly provide was a print out of the police reference which takes 40+ days and wasn’t really what eBay requested.

 

The police informed me that the CAD reference they provided should be sufficient for a reputable business to check the details and in fact EBay were requesting something I could not possibly obtain which is a matter for trading standards.

 

The case was closed by eBay and it became apparent that I was getting further and further away from claiming my money back.

 

As a last attempt, on the 13th of April 2011 I decided to write a letter to both the Dublin and Richmond offices explaining the situation. Needless to say, I received no reply.

 

EBay now have £570 of my money and are effectively refusing to give it back. I am not quite sure how they can get away with doing this.

 

On Tuesday the 3rd of May, nearly three months after ordering the Macbook, I submitted a Money Claim Online through the HM Courts and Tribunals Service using the Richmond EBay address.

 

After researching online, I anticipate that eBay will most probably ignore the court papers. Ultimately this means I would ‘win’ over the next 14 days by default judgement.

 

I understand that eBay will then receive a letter from the court stating that they have lost. They will most likely respond to this by claiming not to have received any paperwork from the court and the default judgement will be set aside.

 

A court hearing date will most likely be set in my local court where I will be given the opportunity to show the clear evidence.

 

I will update the forum when I have any further details.

Edited by cebtec
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This is fascinating and right up my steet. Before I get too far into replying, where in the country are you? (City/town/County will do)

 

I have a particular interest in this from both a legal student perspective and former Ebay business.

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Ok, I will do my utmost to assist you here as this really stinks. What we have here is clearly deception by the seller and gross incompetence and neglect by Ebay.

 

My first question is have you retained the letter and envelope received?

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Thank you. I personally hold eBay responsible as they are very aware of the situation, yet have decided to unfairly hold onto the money themselves and close the case. According to eBay, the seller does not have the money as they froze his account, so he/she is out of the equation.

 

What concerns me is that according to all the forums, eBay are doing this to their members on a regular basis.

 

Yes I have kept the original tracked envelope and letter safely in a folder with all printed email correspondence with eBay. Tempted to put it in the safe to make sure I don’t lose it!

Edited by cebtec
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OK. You are clearly a wise man. Good for you

 

Ebay and Paypal are to all effects the same company. Did you pay for this item with funds already in your paypal account or did you pay via paypal, loading money for that specific payment from a credit card/debit card or bank account?

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Yup, this does happen alot with PayPal sellers, and it's not just transactions through ebay either - pretty sure there's hundreds of thousands that ebay are keeping ahold of.

 

Out of interest, did you pay by credit card? As if you did you could go down the section 75 route.

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It was paid for using the funds already in the PayPal account. Wasn't on a credit card unfortunately, everything will be in the future though, that’s for sure.

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Ok. Bypass ebay. Whilst Paypal and Ebay are the same group, they are still sperate companies. Your transaction is between you and the seller. Ebay are meerly an agent and Paypal are the people authorised by YOU to make the payment.

 

Contact Paypal. They can be and indeed have been with me very obliging in the past. The salient point being that you have NOT received any goods. They will of course initially chcek and see that you did indeed receive something, but you need them to understand that what you received was an envelope containg a letter. The size of said envelope could prove important, if you could not fit the laptop inside for example! It is not unknown for crooks to send a breeze block via special delivery. It has happened.

 

Get Paypal on your side. DO NOT shout at them whatever you do. Butter them up and tell them how professional they are and how helpful etc etc etc. You need to talk to Paypals FRAUD unit - yes they have one. Your money has been sent somewhere. Doesn't really matter where as the goods theat you bought have not been received and thus you are entitled to reverse the transaction.

 

Start gentle before turning up the screws a bit. Get to managers and the fraud unit ulimately. At that stage record the call if possible, or at least log the time, who what is said exactly etc.

 

I had a similar situation about 3 years ago, which Paypal to their credit did resolve for me even though Ebay slammed the door.

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Thank you for your advice.

As part of the freedom of information act, eBay provided the contact details for the seller. Although they would not like to admit it, these contact details were all phony.

EBay offer “buyer protection,” the seller has disappeared and they have specifically told me that they are holding the money, who knows whether that information is true or not. They understand the situation, have seen the clear evidence and yet they fail to help. This is why I hold them responsible and am taking them to court.

I have tried contacting PayPal once or twice and didn’t get very far and was transferred back to eBay as it’s all pretty much in house. I will definitely pursue this again and will go for the fraud department.

The envelope is standard DL and the postage weight is that of a piece of paper and not a laptop.

I would also like to point out that no one signed for the envelope and it was just dropped at reception like all other post. When you type the tracking number on Royal Mail’s website it says it hasn’t been delivered and is being “processed through the delivery network.”

Unfortunately as I initially explained the situation to eBay, they will not change the case and are treating it as an item not described.

I appreciate all your help in this matter.

When will Panorama or Watchdog do an episode on eBay?

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Ebay do seem to believe they are a law unto themselves. However, you have the actual law on your side.

 

I would revist the police and insist on speaking with an inspector of higher. Do so by appointment and arrange that appointment by way of a letter to the constabulary headquaters. Not sure if you fall under Met or Surey where you are.

 

Insist that a fraud case is opened. be prepared to lose that envelope as evidence, so scan it, photgraph it and measure it. Photos next to a 12" ruler is good. Paypal are American and do not understand DL.

 

In the meantime, do press ahead with Paypal and indeed Ebay fraud. Ebay, ring them and insist on speaking with someone in Ireland. They are MUCH more helpful and understand the English legal stance much better than the Phillipine call centre. Ebay again have a fraud department. You need to get through to them to start getting anywhere. The problem is once they make a decision, they seem to think that is that. How on erath have they concluded that it is in anyway your fault and thus your loss? Inept spirngs to mind.

 

Meantime, continue with the moneyclaim.

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Good luck with this. They can be a law unto themselves. Ive had no end of trouble with them both myself but I think if this got to court you'd be in a very strong position and tbh I dont think ebay or paypal will ever let it get that far.

Have you tried contacting royal mail to see if they can give you any info on the parcel?, I know now that in my local office, recorded delivery are individually inputted to the system with weight and measurements + it will even pinpoint the exact office posted from. In fairness I dont think theyd ever find the seller but it might be enough proof that the parcel could never of been a computer.

This system is massively flawed.

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you should also attempt legal action against the police or at least complain to the ipcc as what they told you was bollocks. it is a criminal matter because the seller made no attempt to send the item you had paid for. if you were to have received the item and then were not happy with the quality, then that wouldhave been a civil matter. the police are being lazy and not wanting to investigate.

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Ebay do seem to believe they are a law unto themselves. However, you have the actual law on your side.

 

:!:

 

What eBay would seem to believe is that the suspect is innocent if not proved guilty, which is exactly what is required by law, strangely enough. eBay is not a police force, nor a court of law, so not especially obliged to investigate, nor entitled to convict.

 

What you need to do is prosecute, if the evidence is sufficient, or to gather the evidence to convict, in order to furnish eBay and Paypal with the order of a court.

 

While it is not for me to predict what exactly the Money Claim Online service is likely to do, I would not be so surprised if they drag their feet, deliberately. A Judge may reserve his judgement, in any case, pending the outcome of criminal proceedings.

 

In order to persuade eBay and others to take this seriously, the need is to do the same, not to gossip as if all that counts is the money at stake.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi there, I wondered whether you finally got anywhere with ebay. I have a case that is virtually identical, except that my seller said that the items were stolen before disappearing...I thought that ebay would easily find in my favour therefore but no joy.

 

Thanks, Ross.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Ross,

I know someone with the exact same problem Cebtec Ltd had with eBay.

The person I know won their claim, however he was forced to sign a document made by eBay which legally stops them from spreading the outcome on forums.

Thanks

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The person I know won their claim, however he was forced to sign a document made by eBay which legally stops them from spreading the outcome on forums.

 

:roll:

 

As was pointed out before, the need is to convict the suspect.

 

In the mean time, you could rather be sued for libel and so could the proprietor of an online forum for allowing a member to spread it about that an offence took place which has yet to be proved in a court of law.

 

As was previously suggested, you could and should have a go at the Police if they've the cheek to pretend that this is a civil matter. The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 provides that the misleading action of a trader is a strict liability criminal offence, the enforcement of which is regulated by Part 8 of the Enterprise Act which binds the crown. "Binds the Crown" enables an action against an agent of the crown in breach of the Act.

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  • 3 months later...

Makes interesting reading and i wish you luck. Is there update on the court case? We are about to take ebay to Court as a seller. It would be interesting to learn whether or not eBay are actually obliged to even attend court in the UK as everything is registered to Luxembourg i assume they therefore are not duty bound by UK Law. My case is somewhat different than yours, ebay removed all of listing due to what they say is a trademark infringement, we sell memorabilia and the trade mark on a signature/autograph is ridiculous and unfounded. We were trading for 9 years and 3 days on eBay until the restricted us from selling for 30 days which effectively whipped us out and couldn't pay the £2000 seller fees that month. So they suspended our account. And they charges us for the anchor shop fees of £375 when we couldn't event sell.

 

The problem with eBay is that they are too big for their own boots. They think they can do what they want and they are a law onto themselves. We are taking eBay to court for damages loss of earnings and will let you know how we get on. We have nothing to lose and they have already run our business into the ground. Oh by the way we were Gold Power Sellers, Top Rated Sellers, 100% positive feedback since October 2002. eBay used to care about sellers, they provided them with revenue and the company was floated and funded on users, now they dont need that they are getting rid of genuine hard working sellers like us!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Famous Memorabilia,

 

Thank you for your post, I would like to email you directly regarding your case.

 

Ridiculous as it may be, we are unable to publically announce the result of ourclaim.

 

Make sure you send the court papers to eBay in Richmond UK and it is likely thatyou'll receive a response from one of their UK solicitors who are based there. It seems that eBaydo not like taking the matter all the way to court if it can be avoided andwill try to resolve it themselves.

 

Your case is very interesting, and you certainly are not on your own withthis, in fact I know of many very successful eBay sellers who have had their businessesruined by eBay limitations and I have had firsthand experience of this too.

 

A business can be successfully selling thousands of pounds worth of items ina month, then receive an impersonal email from eBay informing the business thatthey are now limited to only £1800 worth of sales in a month, and usually it isas a result of a trademark infringement or because three customers have openedan “item not as described case.” This clearly isn’t fair, firstly because the negligent eBay call centre advisesbuyers to open cases, rather than advising buyers to contact the seller toresolve the problem first. In a high turnover business it is inevitable thatcases will be opened for the following three reasons;

-Items will at some stage become damaged in transit with pretty much anycourier

-Any business will tell you that there are always customers who are impossibleto please

-There are inexperienced 0 feedback eBay members who will purchase somethingthey do not want, they will then “resolve a problem,” then open a case.

 

It is obvious that you have been treated very unfairly by eBay. Thelimitations eBay impose on sellers will not usually cover the cost of awarehouse, staff or pretty much any other costs a business has. I am not alegal professional, but I don’t think a business can legally dictate thatanother business must stop selling for unfounded reasons. They certainly can’tcharge £375 for an Anchor shop which you can’t even sell on. It is certainlyworth trying to get this money back. Make sure you keep paperwork of everythingthat has happened to back up your case.

 

You sound as though you have a good eBay account, have you consideredselling on your own website, where you have no selling fees, and are notdictated to by eBay? The £2000 a month seller fees would make a relatively goodbudget for Google Adwords etc.

 

If you take eBay to court for loss of earning and are successful, we toowill try this due to a limitation placed on one of our accounts last year,causing massive inconvenience as well as a fall in profit of approximately£5000. How do you intend on doing this, through the small claims court or byopening a money claim?

 

The justice system in this country shouldn’t allow eBay to trade the way itdoes.

 

If you’d like to email me directly, please do.

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Hi there thanks for your post, i don't have your email address so if you would like to email me at (email address removed so please just google famous memorabilia and our email address's are on our website it would be great to here from you.

I think we should email each other direct at this stage save as prejudicing any court action you or I will be taking against eBay. I think it is about time that something is done to stop eBay being a law onto themselves and we certainly have a good case against them in court. I hope to be able to at least get together with you to understand your case and share information, and help each other in our common ground pursuits.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good Luke!

 

Big business likes to take advantage of small business.

 

In your case it will be advisable to take legal action not just against ebay but ebay`s employee failing to address your case competently: it means they are purposely negligent and therefore legally accountable as well.

Also make them co-defendant with the seller for fraud so your case will became a criminal case at this is the reality: they have to disclose all information relating to this case and if there is a indirect or direct willingness to gain financial advantage ebay employees dealing with your case are fraudsters.

 

When i had an issue with paypal, where it was the case, paypal was made co-defendant for fraud: paypal always reimbursed us "as gesture of goodwill".

 

Fabio

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  • 7 months later...

i have read the above thread with great interest, as i am very much in need of some help with my experience with ebay.

 

Is this the best place to post the problem? I am not sure of the correct etiquette for online forums.

 

thanks for any guidance you can give me.

 

Jon

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  • 8 months later...

Hello there. Is there update on the court case?

I have been in customer service all my life & I am only 40. I took an early release package from the civil service & put all my money on ebay. Many say not to put all your eggs in one basket. But I did. I wanted to be different & provide an excellent service. Getting 100% 700+ positive feedback on one account & 100% 5800 positive feedback on the other is no easy task.Some large power seller has been trying to shut me down for the past 3 months & I was selling 100 items a day. They falsely complained about intellectual property rights from Apple & removed many of my listings. I contacted Apple & they confirmed that they have no issue with my products. However ebay brought my policy compliance to low & restricted my selling for 1 week. I stopped selling these items for phones & continued with my other unbranded items. Then, last week 3 of my listings were removed & I have been restricted from listing new items for a whole month. My policy compliance is now very low & I am in the verge of being shut down by ebay. I contacted them & they do not let me know the reason why my items were removed. It was a LED side light car bulb & a high power laser pointer which were all unbranded. I am totally messed up & have no proper direction at the moment due all this. Sorry for such a long message. Just crying out loud.

Best regards

Jeremy

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Ji jeremy. Did you ever write a formal complaint to ebay or call them to see what is going on? I ask this because your info makes me think you havent yet, and are just thinking the worst. Ebay cant delist you simply on the words of another seller. They would need to investigate first.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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