Hello all,

Could you please help? Since 2009 I have an battle with Lewisham Council. In 2009 I parked

First of all I have left parking when the Enforcement officer issued a "penalty"...

Well they claim that he ISSUED ticekt but we actually left the place and he never gave us a ticekt! He was just taking pictures of me!

Since then no further letters communication. I thought no ticekt - no penalty but it looks like this is not the case.

I moved in 2010 to another property. Then they tracked me down. I have replied and asked for Evidence but they have only provided me with pictures etc. No copy of the ticket or not even a report from Enforcement Officer. When I contacted them again they told me that I need to pay otherwise they will take me to courts.

And here is now letter from Bailiffs... I dont know what to do next. I was not even a chance to see the evidence or defend myself in court...

Please help...

lasek

If bailiffs are involved, they are acting on a court warrant. You can challenge that warrant, and hopefully get it revoked. For now, forget the issue of the PCN itself - you need to deal with the bailiff warrant.

The council should have sent various notices out to the name and address held for that vehicle, at DVLA. Do you know if the name and address was correct? Do you know why you might not have received the notices?

The thing to do is file an out of time statutory declaration/witness statement. If you go to the website of Northampton County Court (also called TEC), then you can obtain the forms. Make sure you use "out of time" forms.

Complete them, send them off, and you have challenged the bailiff warrant. They should hold fire until the matter has been investigated. If your application is successful, the Council will contact you again about the original PCN. At that point you can go into the matter of whether it was issued - but not yet.

Post back if you need any help with the forms etc, or any more info about the process.

Many thanks Jamberson,

Shall I also send a letter to Bailiffs and informed them that I challenge the warrant?

Cheers!

Lasek

It won't do any harm, although they might ignore it. Better perhaps to contact the Council and tell them - they can tell the bailiff to hold fire for the moment. Problem is, the council probably will take ages to get around to dealing with a letter, so it might be pointless wrtiting! How about phoning the council's parking team and ask if you can speak to someone who deals with bailiff cases (someone in the council's parking section that is, not the bailiff themselves). Explain to them, and see if they will agree a temporary hold while you file the forms. There's a good chance they will.

If they won't, then get the forms done ASAP - once they are filed, they HAVE to suspend the warrant while the case is being considered.

Fill in this Te9 witness statement in web form,

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfi...forms/te9_e.pdf

tick the

'I did not receive the PCN/NTO'

Print it off, sign it, then scan it

fill in this

Statement out of Time/extension of time form stating

in the reasons box i.e change of address

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=2362

again print it off sign and then scan it then

email both forms to the

HM courts customer service email address quoting the PCN in the subject line.

[email protected]

In the meantime if you have a garage make sure you leave your vehicle there.

It MUST be remembered that in filing an Out of Time Application, the person merely has to provide a REASON why they are completing a Statutory Declaration LATE.

Therefore the wording needs to be something along the following lines:

" I was unable to complete this application within the given time as it was not until I received a letter from a firm of bailiffs that I was made aware that a warrant had been issued.

It would appear that all statutory notices had been sent to my previous address which was xxxxx. I moved from that address in approx xxx.

PS: You need to also ring TEC on 08457 045 007 and ask them to confirm the address on the warrant. If this is your old address, advise them that the bailiff is seeking to enforce a warrant at your NEW address!! They are NOT supposed to do this.

Thank you so much. I wrote to them as I was so upset about it. Here is response. They guy who toke a picture of me never gave me a penalty. We just drove off and that was it.. Moved to another place and bingo! The story was we parked for few minutes. When we arrived guy was taking pictures.. I can recall that no ticekt was even printed off!

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?b2afd83bbb.png

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?2ce0b03044.gif

I was told that if there is no evidence of ticekt on the windscree PCN is not valid? And I was leaving... I need to fill in those forms. Thanks all.. Shall I attach this to the Out of time application? What sort of arument I can use... As I said again. He had not a chance to attach ticket to windscreen..

Until today I havent seen original PCN..

Thank you again...

lasek

OK, so if they won't halt proceedings now, get on and file the witness statement as soon as you can.

 

I was told that if there is no evidence of ticekt on the windscree PCN is not valid?

 

That's not quite correct. If the PCN was not served, then it's not enforcable. However some are served by post, and since you didn't get any post, we can't say if that happened here. Also, it's not really a matter of whether there is "evidence" - you still need to go through the appeals process and argue the case.

 

Shall I attach this to the Out of time application? What sort of arument I can use... As I said again. He had not a chance to attach ticket to windscreen..

Until today I havent seen original PCN..

Forget the PCN for now! Don't even think about it - you need to challenge the bailiff warrant, not the PCN! That comes later. At the moment, you are challenging the warrant because you did not receive the NTO - and it's late because you had no mail. The issue of the PCN is not relevant to what you're doing right now.

Thanks! doing now!

No 'court' warrants in parking enforcement!

The Council should have issued it. If Lewisham ever issued one as the law requires it to do, then I'll give you the money mesself.

In other words, no warrant exists.

The local authority applies to Northampton County Court for a warrant, which is routinely granted. It may be technically wrong to call it a court warrant, but its not helpful to state as fact that one does not exist! Bailiffs are instructed to act as a result of these warrants, and the fact that they are doing so in this case demonstrates that a warrant has been granted. He needs to sort it out.

Jamberson - you can take it as fact that no warrant exists in thi case. There is a great deal of difference between the authorisation of a warrant by theTEC and the actual issuing of it.

As I say if LB Lewisham issued it, I'll give you the money mesself. Indeed I have yet to come across any London Authority which issues warrants, which is how we are successful in county courts when applying to get people's cars back.

So what would you advise the OP to do?

Follow Tom Tubby's advice

That's exactly what the OP is already doing. Thanks for your help.

Sarcasm does not help you when you receive an answer to a question that you freely asked.

Learn the correct procedure for the issue of warrants by checking Civil Procedure Rule 75 (7) (3) and Section 5 (4) of the Enforcement Of Road Traffic Debts Order 1993 and you won't have to show your bemused displeasure in public after being corrected.

If you want to kid yourself that you're educating me, then fine - you're only wasting your own time. Help the OP - or buzz off. That's what the forum is here for.

I wouldn't want to kid myself of any such thing as the evidence appears to show the contrary, but some might feel that the OP has been assisted by having a better understanding of how a warrant of execution is drawn up and why he has never seen one in this case.

Helping people is but one aspiration of the forum, it also exists for people to share their knowledge and to express their views.

Enough said - I shall now continue on preparing statements so that two people may apply to their respective County Courts next week for injunctions to get their cars back from bailiff companies whose employees took them after failing to turn up with warrants because the local authorities (Southwark and Newham) never issued them.

Dear all...

Just had a conversation with people from TEC. They recived my paper work and they notified Lewisham Council.

I shall hear back from TEC withink 4 weeks.

That means that almighty bailifs need to stay away from my car and me?

Thanks to all:

Jamberson

cream70

tomtubby

Fair-Parking

lasek

Yes, if the case is under dispute, Lewisham should inform the bailiffs to hold off.

Hey Folks!

Here is the latest:

On the 4th of June 2011 I went to do some shopping and when I returned my car was clamped. What a great surprise! This happend at TESCO.. and my car was clamped by a 'gentelman' who intruduced himself as a "North Hampton Court employee'. I almost had heart attack however I explain all etc and he said that he needs to check wit his office.. This office turned to be a Bailiff Office.. Here is lovely picture...Finally he unclamped me and he left...

Check this out:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/img00338201106041204.jpg/

Yesterday I was so happy as I recived letter from Northamton Courty Court

Please see below:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/penalty.jpg/

So thanks for help as I you all rescued me.. around 490£ (190£ penalty + 300£ Bailiff costs).

Looks like now need to wait for Lewisham response..

I just wanna say thanks in million to all of you.. and once this is all over I will make honest donation to this forum.

lasek

He was operating as a private bailiff not a court bailiff. I bet he didn't tell you that !

@ lamma

Of course not!

Hello all,

So yesterday I recived letter from Lewisham demanding payment of £120.00.

http://imageshack.us/g/807/letterfromlewisham.png/

To give you idea what happened let me put everything again.

We went to Deptford Bridge in London. Parked in a area when you can park for 30 minutes. We knew that there is time limit so we returned to the car 25 minutes later (Still 5 minutes left). I was surprised that there was a guy from council walking around and taking notes. I said to him that we still have a plenty of time but he refused and he start taking my pictures and he also commented that is "To late..". We drove off. The ticket was not even issued yet..not even attached to windscreen - nothing..

What shall I do next? Many thanks for an advice...

lasek

Well they claim that he ISSUED ticekt but we actually left the place and he never gave us a ticekt! He was just taking pictures of me!

This was in 2009, right? So you can appeal on the basis that the time span is unreasonable. They cannot reasonably expect you to be able to defend the case after two years.

If you appeal on this basis, and they reject your appeal, you can apply for a hearing at adjudication. The same argument - too much time has elapsed - should win it for you and get the PCN cancelled.