Hi,

I have read a lot of posts very keenly. I had a PCN from Harrow Council issues in Dec 2009 and had appealed it in Jan 2010 and was rejected. I then asked for the appeal to be sent to TAPAS but received no paperwork on this. I had even called PATAS in Feb 2010 and they had at the time asked me to wait for the forms of Appeal to come to me and nothing else could be done till then.

I never received any communication since then and assumed that the council had dropped the case. I then received a Bailiff letter claiming £ 600+ together with a warrant. I had also moved houses in Oct 2010 and had a redirect in place but the only thing I had received was this bailiff letter and warrant which was valid from Dec 2010.

I have since filed PE2 and PE3 forms which I just received a rejection on and I need to now file a N244 to go before a judge. I wanted to get help on filling this N244 form as I am not sure if I need to discuss about the reasons for appeal or that i had not received any communication even though I had appealed and clearly stated that i intend to take my case to PATAS.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Kind regards

kool

I then asked for the appeal to be sent to TAPAS

You're making me hungry!

The council had a choice over whether to accept your PE2/3, and it's the strength of the reasons you gave which should hold sway. A lot of N244 applications succeed, because the courts don't much like having councils take up their time with these matters.

You need to get across the reasons you gave originally for filing the PE2 late, and ask the court to accept this. You don't need to go into the PCN itself, just focus on the lateness of the application and why the council should accept it.

If there is a specific section of the form you want help with, can you advise which part?

Hi Jamberson,

I am not sure if being hungry is good or bad....

I really need help with section 3. I am basically telling them that I had not received any further documentation to appeal from the council and hence I was filing the witness statement out of time. I had also moved address and the current warrant is for my old address.

Do you think I stand a chance with the N244 or does my appeal look very weak?

Thanks for everything.

The address change could be important.

I am not too clear on the chain of events. What should happen initially is this:

PCN issued to the vehicle

- you can appeal

- if you appeal you get a reply

If not cancelled or paid, a Notice to Owner is issued to the registered keeper (according to the address held by DVLA)

- you can appeal

- if you appeal you get a reply

If not cancelled or paid, you can refer to PATAS, and if you do not, a Charge Certificate is issued to the registered keeper

The question is, at what stage did you appeal?

And the other question is, at what point in this process did you move house?

I appealed after receiving a PCN and received a rejection to my appeal. I received a Rejection to my Appeal and received a Notice to Owner when I asked to be referred to PATAS. I then never heard anything or never received a Charge Certificate or anything else. I had done this in March 2010.

As I never heard anything else, I had thought that the council had cancelled the PCN but now with hindsight i should have chased them when i didnt hear anything. I moved address in October 2010 and the Warrant of Execution states the start date of it from December 2010 but I only received a copy of the warrant with Bailiff letters in January 2011.

OK, so your case should be based on the fact that you made a formal representation but did not receive a response.

The problem for you is that you appealed around Feb 2010 but did not move house until October 2010. I assume therefore that the Council was sending the notices to the correct address.

Your reason for filing the statutory declaration late was that you did not receive these notices - but if they were sent to the right address at the time, this could be judged either way. So I don't think the address change will help your case.

It's difficult to know how this one will pan out. I think the best you can do is proceed with the N244 and hope that you have a sympathetic judge at the hearing. Most of them side with the motorist, and a high proportion of N244 applications are accepted.

If you need any help with the N244 form still i can refer to my Civil litigatoin text book for guidance if need be!

Also, just to add to this thread, i have noticed that Councils do go through the legal process and bailiffs but whta about Private Car Parking Authorities? Will they instruct Bailiffs without informing me? I have a 'fine/charge' from them which i intend to ignore, but dont want to run the risk of having a £85 charge suddenly rising to £600 because of Bailiff charges!

I am not sure if I am the claimant or the defendant and who should be served this application (Section 9) and what should i use a witness statement or a statement of case or written evidence?

Thanks in advance for your help

The party who is making the application is the claimaint (you) and the party against whom the order is sought is known as the respondent

With regards to section 9, i believe this should be the party who you are challenging i think it will be Harrow Council

A witness statement is your account of what has happened - outling the sequence of events in numbered concise paragraphs. It's not a complex document, but there are formalities you need to follow. In Box 10, i would probably tick the box stating "the evidence set out in the box below" - include as much detail of what has happened, any evidence/letters you seek to rely on etc

In Section 3 and Section 4, do I need to quote a legal order or can i say the following:

I wish to have the decision of the court officer at the Traffic Enforcement Centre on 28th February 2011 to refuse my out of time statutory declaration reviewed. I did not receive any response or any further notices once I had made my representations.

Hi,

 

I have read a lot of posts very keenly. I had a PCN from Harrow Council issues in Dec 2009 and had appealed it in Jan 2010 and was rejected. I then asked for the appeal to be sent to TAPAS but received no paperwork on this. I had even called PATAS in Feb 2010 and they had at the time asked me to wait for the forms of Appeal to come to me and nothing else could be done till then.

 

I never received any communication since then and assumed that the council had dropped the case. I then received a Bailiff letter claiming £ 600+ together with a warrant. I had also moved houses in Oct 2010 and had a redirect in place but the only thing I had received was this bailiff letter and warrant which was valid from Dec 2010.

 

I have since filed PE2 and PE3 forms which I just received a rejection on and I need to now file a N244 to go before a judge. I wanted to get help on filling this N244 form as I am not sure if I need to discuss about the reasons for appeal or that i had not received any communication even though I had appealed and clearly stated that i intend to take my case to PATAS.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Kind regards

 

kool

It is clear that you should never have ASSUMED that the matter had been referred to PATAS and that you should have made further enquiries.

When the Out of Time was submitted, Harrow Council would have responded to TEC with reasons for their rejection. Normally, local authorities are now providing copies of the reasons for the rejection to you. Did you receive this? You need to alsp make enquiries with Harrow Council as to the dates of the Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery. Because, you should have received both of these.

Also when making the N244 it will be in your interest to ensure that you have some sort of evidence that you had asked for the case to be sent to PATAS.

The N244 is complicated to say the least.

To make it a little more simple you need to complete the form as follows:

Name of Court: Leave blank. TEC will complete this.

Claim Number: This will be your PCN number.

Warrant number: Leave blank

Claimants Name: HARROW COUNCIL

Defendants Name: This is the name of the person making the application !! ( I did say the form was confusing!!)

Box 3: To seek a review of the Court Officers decision to refuse my recent Out of Time Statutory Declaration.

Box 4: (Have you attached a draft etc). This is for TEC to complete.

Box 5: At a Hearing.

Box 6: (How long do you think the hearing will last). Leave empty.

Box 7: Leave empty

Box 8: (Level of Judge) Leave empty

Box:9 (Who should be served) Harrow Council

Box 10: This is where you need to provide any further information that you want the court to consider.

Hi Tomtubby,

Thank you for your response. I have already send the N244 form yesterday citing that I had not received the paperwork and I am atleast a little relieved to see that I managed to get the form filled in correctly.

I have just spoken to Harrow Council and they have informed me that Bailiff action can continue even while the N244 is filed. Is that correct as I thought that I would have a chance atleast to stand infront of a judge and put forward my explanation before I am forced to pay out. I honestly did not receive any further documentations for nearly 8 months so I will really feel hard done by if I am forced to pay.

Also the only notice i have received from the Bailiff is for costs of £ 600+ which I think is crazy considering that I have never had a visit from them or even a letter previously. The warrant is issued at my old address and surely if they have ever visited than they should have know that I dont live there anymore and also I have a redirect in place so any letters sent from them should have got to me.

Your help is much appreciated. Seeing the system the way it is, I feel with hindsight that it is not worth appealing a penalty ticket as initially all I had asked them for was to see the CCTV images of the offence and they seemed to have sent me a standard rejection letter claiming that people should have seen the no right turn sign as they were probably assuming most people argue whereas I had never raised that issue itself in my appeal.

Hi TomTubby,

I forgot to mention that Harrow Council had infact given a reason and said that "No notification was received from the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service."

Hi TomTubby,

 

I forgot to mention that Harrow Council had infact given a reason and said that "No notification was received from the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service."

If you had requested the case go to PATAS they are supposed to send the case to them!!

Also Harrow Council are WRONG. When an N244 is filed all enforcment must by law be put on hold until such time as the application had been "determinded". You need to suggest to Harrow that they correctly read part 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules !!!

Hi Tomtubby,

Is it best to write to Harrow Council as the woman who answered the phone seemed very uncooperative and kept telling me that sort it out with the bailiffs. Are they allowed to misinform people like this being a local authority? It's only because of helpful people like yourself, I am able to continue with this case.

Any suggestions and what I should do would be really helpful.

Just to add, that when I spoke to them the woman at the harrow council and explained everything, the woman asked me of why I had not contact them before and I told her that I sent her the appeal letter and she said that if they have not received its tough and I should have called to check up. I told her that I had called once and was asked to wait for a written response as that is the only way things are dealt with them. When I didnt hear anything, I had assumed that the case was closed but I know now how wrong I was to assume that this happens. I was trying to explain to the woman that the same way that they were relying on the post to get to me, I was equally relying on the post I sent to them to get to them but she just brushed it off and told me pretty much that hard luck. Isn't the law supposed to be fair or are the council above the law and their word is stronger than an individual's ?

Is it wise to contact the bailiff as so far I have not heard anything from them apart from the postal redirect letter ? The warrant is also issued for my old address so can i expect for them to still turn up anyday?

Don't call the bailiff just yet.

When your stat dec is rejected you have a period (14 days I think) to file an N244. Your last letter should state this. The Council should hold the case for that period to see if you do file an N244. If you've timed out, bailiffs can pursue but if not, the Council are wrong and you should call back and ask for a supervisor. Quote the dates on your rejection letter.

(In any case, once TEC have the N244 they will advise the Council and then the case will be on hold regardless - so the window is very short.)

Hi Jamberson,

I received the rejection on 3rd March and it was dated 28th February. I sent the N244 to the TEC yesterday as it said that I had 14 days to appeal so I have made sure that I do not miss the deadling by even the day incase they tell me the time started on 28th February so I am still within it. They are aware of the rejection notice and told me clearly that even during the appeal process, they do not cease bailiff activity. Should i fight with the council on this matter or wait till a baliff arrives as no one has ever come till date. Alternatively, is it worth talking the TEC about this? Sorry about so many questions but all this is very new to me and I am just trying to find what would be the best thing for me to do.

They do not "cease" bailiff activity, but they do suspend it (the difference being that it's on temporary hold until matters are sorted). This case should be on hold. If I were you I would call again and get clarification of this. As I said, ask for a supervisor, since not all staff will be up to speed on bailiff cases.

Hi Kool,

Could you please let me know what was the outcome of your N244. as I am in same position I would like to know if its worth to fill N244?

thanks in advance

Hi Kool,

Could you please let me know what was the outcome of your N244. as I am in same position I would like to know if its worth to fill N244?

 

thanks in advance

Please note it is some 3 years nearly since this was done so you may not receive a reply. However I will now move this thread to the Local Authority Parking Forum.

Hi Kool,

Could you please let me know what was the outcome of your N244. as I am in same position I would like to know if its worth to fill N244?

 

thanks in advance

There's no point in asking, to be honest. Every case is different and will pan out differently.

Best thing to do is start a thread of your own, summarise what has happened so far, and you will get some advice which will hopefully help you out.