Does anyone have any advice on this. My friend has been unemployed for 18 months and was put on flexible new deal 6 weeks ago. According to guidance info he is supposed to be in stage 1 for 16 weeks before stage 2 IAP. However he has now been forced to attend stage 2 IAP with A4e, (the company being investigated for fraud). He has been told he must attend mon-fri for 30 hours each week for 13 weeks and if he doesn't go along with what they say then no benefit. Does anyone know what he can expect and what rights he has. He is dreading it, a friend has told him of one of their friends being on it who was made to sit there doing primary school maths and belittled. Is it really going to be this bad and barbaric and if this is the nature of it what can he do and what are his rights. This is nothing short of demoralizing and inhumane.

Hi rights

If he feels that it is designed to humiliate him, that clearly would breach his Human Rights.

This can be complex, but there is a lot of help out there, http://www.yourrights.org.uk/get-advice/

Your friend is lucky to have a friend like you.

Well it is even worse than he expected. He is going to take up the matter further.

Flexible new deal whereby you are forced off JSA and entered into flexible new deal over 25's program with an outside provider which you have to attend for 30 hours every week and do as they say for at least 13 weeks and also do 4 weeks free work placement and can be extended for up to a year. You must attend or be sanctioned, and you are then subjected to treatment from the provider which is condescending, humiliating and unjust.

Note you are actually taken off JSA and no longer show in the figures as unemployed even though you are still unemployed. This is proved by the fact that you will be sent your P45.

The company concerned in this case is A4e and not only do they breach the human rights but they are also are in breach of health and safety and data protection.

Examples:

48 people plus tutor with no teaching qualifications people squeezed like sardines into a room whereby if you move you hit next chair or table. In case of a fire would be almost impossible to exit safely as you would have to climb over chairs and tables to get out safely through the one 3rd floor fire exit.

Despite A4e being fined £60,000 for data protection breach, they continue to breach. The people were told that no one was to sit in the tutors chair as she had protected data there and if anyone did sit there they would be escorted off the premises and sanctioned for gross misconduct.

One of the clients partners had recently had a baby, the tutor stated that once he got a job he would be a good father.

Clients were told they could not smoke outside, when suggestion was made of supplying an ashtray and pointing out that this was outside tutors response was you people will not use ashtrays.

Clients told of sanctions imposed which are if half hour late you lose half a days pay if hour late you lose a days pay. In addition to this though there is a further sanction, clients were told that it is also there responsibility to ensure everyone else gets back on time as if another is late she will keep all of them back at end of day as she is sick of people being late.

Tutor stated that next week they will be in another room and she will put it on the board as you over 25's are in need of picture support as that is why you here.

The list goes on and on these are just a couple of the examples, My friend is fully expecting that he will end up sanctioned and possibly exited from the course for complaining and challenging this treatment, which he is finding extremely humiliating and degrading. He is going to contact the MP and JCP in written form and is also contacting authorities regarding the health and safety issues. Any other ideas or others experiences would be welcome

Hello rightsforme. Is this a duplicate of what you put on another thread on the forum? I think it's against the forum rules to put the same post on twice. You could post a link from one thread to the other, so people can find what you've sent.

My best, HB

Hi Honey,

The thread is not actually a duplicate. I have posted on the other thread which is about the government announcement to cancel for the work for your benefits scheme and whether this covers the flexible new deal situation that my friend has been placed in.

I started this thread for flexible new deal advice on what my friend can do and for others experiences.

It could possibly be linked if the other post does cover the flexible new deal, but if it does not then it will not be relevant to my friends situation.

Hope that helps explain.

Right, I see what you mean. Sorry to butt in. HB x

Flexible new deal whereby you are forced off JSA and entered into flexible new deal over 25's program with an outside provider which you have to attend for 30 hours every week and do as they say for at least 13 weeks and also do 4 weeks free work placement and can be extended for up to a year. You must attend or be sanctioned, and you are then subjected to treatment from the provider which is condescending, humiliating and unjust.

Hello

So what money do they pay you then,if your forced off JSA ?

The same rate as JSA plus £15 extra a week also paid in arrears the same as JSA.

A4E is just a sc@m to keep the jobless figures down and to earn the boss a fortune.

All payed for by the taxpayer.

I was on one about 6 months ago.

It was so crowded they had to hire a private room from the council 4 times a week, to fit our group in so they could keep us on their books.

If you can imagine that going on all over the country you can see how the figures mount up.

Hi all. I agree A4e is one of the biggest scams out and they are definitely making a fortune out of the taxpayer.

Update on my friend he will be starting work as he has been offered a job. Some people came in and asked if anyone was in the industry that he had worked in so he had an interviewed there and then. The job however is nothing to do with the area he has worked in and I very much doubt that had he applied for a job such as this one he would have been given it with no experience or knowledge of the area it is in. He was however offered the job there and then subject to urine test at virtually minimum wage which is about a third of what the jobs official wage would be if advertised plus it is only 6 month contract and thereafter possibly a monthly rolling contract.Quite obviously the rolling contract will be only offered at the low rate or they will just go back to A4e and pick another few for the job. He is going to take it as anything is better than having to go through the crap from A4e and just hopes that the few months of experience that he will gain doing this job may lead to him getting a proper job at a proper wage for the job and the type of work it is will be good on his CV.

Despite being offered the job he still has to attend till he actually starts and had to do basic English and Maths test which was actually a test a 7 year old complete. The tutor however had to be corrected as she got it wrong and he actually showed her how to work out the maths one. She then decided he was good at maths so he can take next one. What a joke so called training from a tutor that can't even do basic english and maths. Just how did she get employed.

It shows that no only are the government creating this [problem] for these profiting [problem] work schemes at our expense but also that employers are taking advantage of this by not advertising there jobs to the public where they would have to pay two to three times the salary and using these work schemes to pay up to a third less than they would.

He will still be making an official complaint to MP, DWP and A4e and has notified relevant department on the health and safety issues.

I am starting at A4e next week, and I am absolutely dreading it too. I'm sure it's going to be humiliating and I think this might force me into taking a job or doing unpaid work experience that just won't suit me or my circumstances. Previous to this I was made redundant from the BBC after 8 years service as an editorial assistant and before that a supervisor. Since then I've been applying for endless crappy admin jobs and I've had little success. I told my advisor that I lacked confidence at interview....so now I have to suffer 13 weeks of inane courses. I'm sure being patronised by some unqualified fool about writing CV's is going to do my self worth not one jot of good. I feel like running away right now, but obviously I still need the JSA.

I am starting at A4e next week, and I am absolutely dreading it too. I'm sure it's going to be humiliating and I think this might force me into taking a job or doing unpaid work experience that just won't suit me or my circumstances. Previous to this I was made redundant from the BBC after 8 years service as an editorial assistant and before that a supervisor. Since then I've been applying for endless crappy admin jobs and I've had little success. I told my advisor that I lacked confidence at interview....so now I have to suffer 13 weeks of inane courses. I'm sure being patronised by some unqualified fool about writing CV's is going to do my self worth not one jot of good. I feel like running away right now, but obviously I still need the JSA.

I think if i was going to be sent to A4E, I would take a dictaphone or use my mobile to secretly record any one on one conversations between me and A4E staff. The horror stories being told are absolutely astonishing.

I think if i was going to be sent to A4E, I would take a dictaphone or use my mobile to secretly record any one on one conversations between me and A4E staff. The horror stories being told are absolutely astonishing.

I agree more people need to wear those secret cameras, to point out its a sham. Its amazing how tiny those cameras are, can even get a cool one in a handbag or button one.

I am expecting potential trouble in the next few days. I am with a company called Working Links, who have the contract rather than A4E in my area.

I have a permanent shoulder injury and trapped nerves which mean I cannot do physical work - Admin, no problems.

WL are flapping around in a panic, because I have been with them since August, and they have not yet gotten me a 4 week work trial - and only have till the end of this month, to do so basically, or they will lose out on the cash I assume - the flapping suggests so.

So the guy I deal with contacted me on Monday and told me he had found me a work trial.

In a warehouse, moving boxes and goods. They know, or should know that I can't do physical stuff, especially moving boxes, because I turned down a job they wanted me to apply for due to the same reasons.

and given money is at stake I can see some sort of trouble coming, either bully boy tactics to try and force me into that placement, or an attempt at Sanctioning.

Luckily for me, I have a Sick note from this week forbidding me to do any physical labour, and in case they try and claim I am pulling a "fast one" and bullcrapping my GP, I have a signed letter from the GP from last year, when I was homeless and the Council Homeless dept required evidence of my medical conditions.

These contractors are a fecking disaster.

I live in Northern Ireland and the same is happening. I've been taking part in this 25+ New Deal since March and i selected the 13week course.

I was sent to two different providers to start with and they could not find me a place in the area of work am after so they sent me to a third provider and am now doing nothing at all. Am made to sit all day in one of their abandon buildings. The toilets do not work, the water has been turned off in the building the building is suffering from major damp in the walls. The heat is on thank goodness but that isn't for us, Its for the building because its that damp, it needs heated up all day every day which isnt going to dry the walls and fix the damp (cowboys)

I've taken a walk around this building and could not believe what i found. I found file cabinets filled with peoples information from Phone Numbers, NI Numbers, House Address, Bank Details the lot dating as far back as 1992. Such information left out in the open for any person to walk past and look at is out of order.

I've witnessed people on the new deal stealing all sorts of stationery and Equipment, Old PC's, Software, Copper piping, Lead from the building itself and fire extinguishers. I feel as if I've just be sent to jail and am surrounded by crooks on the brew that do not want to work

People on the brew

Disabled people

People who want to work but have no confidence

People who want to work but have no skills

People who have been in work all their life in the one trade who have no other skills

People who have been made redundant and fell into a deep rut

People like that should get fair treatment

People who should not get fair treatment are the ones that have no interest in working now or ever and claim all the money they can get their dirty hands on, yet we all get treated the same and looked down on as one.

I doubt the government even know the half of it lol!

I live in Northern Ireland and the same is happening. I've been taking part in this 25+ New Deal since March and i selected the 13week course.

 

I was sent to two different providers to start with and they could not find me a place in the area of work am after so they sent me to a third provider and am now doing nothing at all. Am made to sit all day in one of their abandon buildings. The toilets do not work, the water has been turned off in the building the building is suffering from major damp in the walls. The heat is on thank goodness but that isn't for us, Its for the building because its that damp, it needs heated up all day every day which isnt going to dry the walls and fix the damp (cowboys)

 

I've taken a walk around this building and could not believe what i found. I found file cabinets filled with peoples information from Phone Numbers, NI Numbers, House Address, Bank Details the lot dating as far back as 1992. Such information left out in the open for any person to walk past and look at is out of order.

 

I've witnessed people on the new deal stealing all sorts of stationery and Equipment, Old PC's, Software, Copper piping, Lead from the building itself and fire extinguishers. I feel as if I've just be sent to jail and am surrounded by crooks on the brew that do not want to work

 

People on the brew

 

Disabled people

People who want to work but have no confidence

People who want to work but have no skills

People who have been in work all their life in the one trade who have no other skills

People who have been made redundant and fell into a deep rut

 

People like that should get fair treatment

 

People who should not get fair treatment are the ones that have no interest in working now or ever and claim all the money they can get their dirty hands on, yet we all get treated the same and looked down on as one.

 

I doubt the government even know the half of it lol!

If I were you, I would be straight onto the phone to the governments Health and Safety Department, the DWP AND The Information Commissioner / Data Protection. And quite possibly PSNI's local fraud squad, as this sounds practically a crime, leaving important/secured information lying around like that.

Possibly the Fire Brigade too.

Health & Safety Executive Northern Ireland - Freephone 0800 0320 121

Belfast Jobcentreplus/Benefit Delivery Centre 0845 608 8770 - they should be able to direct you where to lodge the imho serious complaint. YOUR Data and ID is under threat there too.

Police Service Northern Ireland - general non emergency switchboard - 0845 600 8000

Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Switchboard 028 9266 4221 - Because I bet, given everything else, the building you are being forced to attend is not up to "Fire Safety Code" Do the smoke alarms look active? Are there even any?

Information Commissioner's Office Northern Ireland - 028 9026 9380 - I bet they will be very interested to hear about secured, important and identifying data being left unsecure.

The more people that complain about these providers, they will have to stop ignoring.

If I were you, I would be straight onto the phone to the governments Health and Safety Department, the DWP AND The Information Commissioner / Data Protection. And quite possibly PSNI's local fraud squad, as this sounds practically a crime, leaving important/secured information lying around like that.

 

Possibly the Fire Brigade too.

 

Health & Safety Executive Northern Ireland - Freephone 0800 0320 121

 

Belfast Jobcentreplus/Benefit Delivery Centre 0845 608 8770 - they should be able to direct you where to lodge the imho serious complaint. YOUR Data and ID is under threat there too.

 

Police Service Northern Ireland - general non emergency switchboard - 0845 600 8000

 

Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Switchboard 028 9266 4221 - Because I bet, given everything else, the building you are being forced to attend is not up to "Fire Safety Code" Do the smoke alarms look active? Are there even any?

 

Information Commissioner's Office Northern Ireland - 028 9026 9380 - I bet they will be very interested to hear about secured, important and identifying data being left unsecure.

 

The more people that complain about these providers, they will have to stop ignoring.

Thankyou for kind info and advice. Unfortunately for me it isn't that straight forward because of the possible backlash if i did proceed to complain. It could open a huge can of worms and some innocent office staff etc may find themselves out of a job if it was to be shut down due to health & safety or something else.

There is some fire safety in the building but as far as smoke alarms goes, i don't think they are active or indeed they have been switched off.

this new deal is a total sham and a wast of time and taxpayers money,since my disability came to surface i haven't done it and was kept off.but sometime ago i did. unfortunately found this programme to be totally useless it was bully bully all the way,when i asked why was the reason for the bad treatment "get off the dole then" was the reply. i guessed that summed the whole thing up.

what they were doing was going through my search records phoning companies behind my back to see why i didnt get the job even though they couldn't fault they still kept talking out of the rear aggressively "thats the job you wanted".they could do this by you signing your legal rights away to data protection (at the job centre) under duress/ under the guise of so they can help you improve weaknesses in interview skills.

if all this was to supposed to "help" me find work someone was badly mistaken and was more counter productive and figures for this calamitous failure reflect this,sadly its not a human violation as such as the dwp distances itself from these companies,however duncan smiths speech "if they dont work and work hard" is classed in this category,they (dwp) are clearly are colluding in this but pubically standing their distance.

My friend is fully expecting that he will end up sanctioned and possibly exited from the course for complaining and challenging this treatment, which he is finding extremely humiliating and degrading. He is going to contact the MP and JCP in written form and is also contacting authorities regarding the health and safety issues. Any other ideas or others experiences would be welcome

Here's my experience..

I've recently endured several weeks of a similar experience through a New Deal training contractor in West Yorkshire.

I found my own 'work placement' after a successful speculative letter&CV mailshot, however, the training provider refused to undertake the required Heath&Safety assesment putting the placement in jeopardy, and instead demanded it was a 'Work Trial' therefore under the jurisdiction of the Jobcentre.

The JC's own stance on the definition of work placement/work trial and who is responsible for the arrangements and liabilities of such was stated that..

"A work trial is where there is a specific vacancy for which teh employer uis actively trying to fill , and can last for up to 4 weeks and is entirely voluntary.

A work placement is an opportunity to gain workplace skills and experience and does not relate to a specific job vacancy, and is arranged by the training provider.."

I complained straightaway in a strongly worded letter to the JC manager, MP, director of the training company (found through a search of companies house) and Darra Singh, Chief Executive of the Jobcentre Plus and New Deal schemes for the DWP, detailing the non-existant training provision, dire standard of resources offered by the provider, the refusal to assist in arranging the placement etc. As a result I was ejected from the New Deal scheme by the provider with no notice to either myself or the jobcentre, and as a result, left in severe financial hardship and had to terminate the placement I'd arranged as had to take too much time off to untangle the mess.

The upshot is, is that as everything was done by letter, including the fabrication of lies recieved as explanation in the training provider's written response to my complaints for which I have both evidence, and the Jobcentre manager's own testament in support of the facts, I now have the buggers on the run and am urging both the Chief Exec of the Jobcentre and my MP to investigate the training company for fraud, as they have claimed for and have been paid public money for training services that they never provided.

I had a meeting recently with the JC manager who was rather helpful and shocked at my experience, and when she asked "And what are you looking for as an end result" I stated that I wanted an unreserved written apology from the training provider, plus an immediate repayment of any and all costs made in my name to the provider by the DWP, but so they could be used toward funding independant skills training of my choosing

If you need to make a complaint about a New Deal training provider, a good tip as have found is to go straight to the top

Darra Singh - Chief Executive, Jobcentre Plus

4th Floor, Caxton House

6-12 Tothill Street

London

SW1H 9NA

Here's my experience..

 

I've recently endured several weeks of a similar experience through a New Deal training contractor in West Yorkshire.

 

I found my own 'work placement' after a successful speculative letter&CV mailshot, however, the training provider refused to undertake the required Heath&Safety assesment putting the placement in jeopardy, and instead demanded it was a 'Work Trial' therefore under the jurisdiction of the Jobcentre.

 

The JC's own stance on the definition of work placement/work trial and who is responsible for the arrangements and liabilities of such was stated that..

 

"A work trial is where there is a specific vacancy for which teh employer uis actively trying to fill , and can last for up to 4 weeks and is entirely voluntary.

A work placement is an opportunity to gain workplace skills and experience and does not relate to a specific job vacancy, and is arranged by the training provider.."

 

I complained straightaway in a strongly worded letter to the JC manager, MP, director of the training company (found through a search of companies house) and Darra Singh, Chief Executive of the Jobcentre Plus and New Deal schemes for the DWP, detailing the non-existant training provision, dire standard of resources offered by the provider, the refusal to assist in arranging the placement etc. As a result I was ejected from the New Deal scheme by the provider with no notice to either myself or the jobcentre, and as a result, left in severe financial hardship and had to terminate the placement I'd arranged as had to take too much time off to untangle the mess.

 

The upshot is, is that as everything was done by letter, including the fabrication of lies recieved as explanation in the training provider's written response to my complaints for which I have both evidence, and the Jobcentre manager's own testament in support of the facts, I now have the buggers on the run and am urging both the Chief Exec of the Jobcentre and my MP to investigate the training company for fraud, as they have claimed for and have been paid public money for training services that they never provided.

 

I had a meeting recently with the JC manager who was rather helpful and shocked at my experience, and when she asked "And what are you looking for as an end result" I stated that I wanted an unreserved written apology from the training provider, plus an immediate repayment of any and all costs made in my name to the provider by the DWP, but so they could be used toward funding independant skills training of my choosing

 

If you need to make a complaint about a New Deal training provider, a good tip as have found is to go straight to the top

 

Darra Singh - Chief Executive, Jobcentre Plus

4th Floor, Caxton House

6-12 Tothill Street

London

SW1H 9NA

What Contractor was it? Every time I have asked Working Links for training, courses etc, its been "ring the college yourself" except, that is THEIR job, its what they are being bloody well paid for, and I can't arrange anything, as WL would have to fund any training or courses... all they care about is getting people onto work trials, for their bonus money, they don't want to do anything that involves actually doing something.

Since by lying, and thus impugning your name, and causing you significant financial hardship and stress/distress getting you sanctioned for their lies, have you considered getting advice for a civil action for compensation? you certainly deserve it. The more people who do that, the more the providers can be fought.

 

If you need to make a complaint about a New Deal training provider, a good tip as have found is to go straight to the top

I believe the person at the top is the Secretary of State.

legislation(dot)gov(dot)uk(forwardslash)ukpga(forwardslash)1995(forwardslash)18(forwardslash)contents

Excuse the brackets, It's an urgent post & I haven't found 10 threads to confidently comment on

The Jobseekers Act 1995. Only for the brave & confidential. Misuse will seriously affect your benefits.

I have been trying to find a Statutory Instrument that states that it is mandatory to attend a4e for 2 years. There are perversions of language, but no Statutory Instrument yet. I may be wrong. I can't find it alone

I can only show you the door though. You must walk through it yourself. Take care.