Hi all

I know that i am asking an age old question and i apologise about that but i have been searching the net and picking up bits and pieces but it is just getting me in a sate and all wound up (being an anxiety sufferer)

I have my ESA ATOS medical on Tuesday and i have being about kinda trick questions, i think i already experienced something of this nature as they first sent me to a centre where the nearest parking was 150 x as far as i stated i could walk and through a busy city centre at lunch time. hmm the two things on my claim they put to the test, needless to say i had them rearrange it to a more suitable location.

the main thing i am concerned about is the comments on how you dress, now as i have social anxiety if i have to go out i will do everything in my power not to be noticed so that includes trying to look like an everyone else, for example if i had to be around business people id wear a shirt and in the supermarket jeans, if im dragged out to social event i will dress up.

i know in their eyes this kind of 'rational thinking' proves im fine but honesty it is part of my illness if i was fine id wear what i wanted not follow the crowd.

My husband says you should go as your are on a normal day e.g. crazy hair slighty dirty clothes and i am ashamed to admit this but i don't always wash sometimes for days so a bit stinky so as to show them the real you

Others have said you should go as you would meet any DR and explain why if i don't i will effectively be proving myself a liar as i am not behaving in my normal manor and contradicting my condition which could unravel the whole claim

any ideas thoughts or advice any of you could share with me please, i don't know who to listen to as they both seem to have valid points.

this idea of 'rational thinking' comes to play a lot in my case and i am soo worried they won't give me a chance to explain myself or listen to me, so many people complain about the assessors not having any interest in what they say.

how can make sure they hear me out and don't just tick the no box, ill give you another example

suicidal tendencies or attempts

i constantly think about leaving this world and i do self harm, word i make an attempt to do this: no because of my religious beliefs, take your own and go to hell. the though of heaven is all that keeps me hear and of course my husband,no heaven and i will never see my son again. that's enough to make wait for a Natural death.

I appreciate not everyone believes this and i hope it does not offend or upset one who reads this.

Anyway my point is that it would be easy for them just to tick the no box and use this as evidence of functional cognitive thought process but mental health does not obliterate religious beliefs.

do others see them using this against me, what can i do if anything at all to make them see this

any support with this would be great

thanks to you all

rach

p.s so for the ramble its a bit emotional i think maybe i needed to get this worry off my chest

Hi there,

Firstly don't get to hung up about this so called "medical",, they will write whatever enables them to stop your benefits, it's not personal, they're just trying to meet the targets the dwp set them, it's wrong but that is the reality.

I think the way you appear does count but even if you went in a swinsuit it wouldn't be enough to pass the "medical", so once again don't get hung up on it.

If you just go as you, making no special effort then at least you've been honest, take your time answering the questions, don't rush! Make sure you understand what their asking you, look for the hidden meaning! Answer as fully as you can, they'll probably talk over your answers, keep trying to answer fully.

There is a lot of debate about recording "medicals", if you can record without them knowing i would, i know i will be doing at my next.

Take as much evidence with you as you can, they'll ignore it but you should take it anyway.

Ask for a copy of the report and wait for the decision, If/when you score less than 15 points, most likely 0 points, don't let it get to you, again it's not personal, the important thing is to appeal, send your appeal paperwork back asap, you only get 1 month initilailly, and if you get HB or anyother benefits inform them that your appealing. You'll get the assesment rate ESA during your appeal.

Once thats done you'll have several months to pick apart the report, stating inaccuraces, missed evidence and out right lies which the report will no doubt contain, you must try not to let anything in the report rule your life, it's not personal, i let it get to me which made me worse, so please don't do the same.

Once you've picked the report to pieces then use HoneyBees sticky to give your opinion about how you think you should be scored, we'll all help you with anything you need help with and give support if/when you need it.

If you can, get welfare rights involved, if not try CAB.

The above is a scenario which seems to be what happenes to most people, it might be different for you, i hope it is, but the point is,,,

Don't worry, even if you fail it's not the end of the world and it's not personal, i think the figures speak for themselves, it's around 70% or 80% of appeals are won if you have representation.

Any question just ask

Hi, as HadEnough said dont let it get to you.

I did, my first time, luckily I kept a Photocopy of my ESA50 Questionnaire and when I requested a copy of the Atos report and the DWP disision makers report, I was able to identify many errors and quite a few downright lies, I appealed and got the decison reversed even without going to tribunal.

I'm about to start it all over again, but thanks to the people on this site, I'm ready for them this time.

Every one on hear will advise and support you, please dont get too stressed out, DWP/Atos aint worth it.

Alan

First of all, please try to relax and BREATHE! Like the previous posters say, even if you "fail" and get 0 points, it won't be anything personal. They just have targets to reach and I think they are failing pretty well everyone! It's very sad but it's a reality that you will probably have to appeal. I remember my GP saying "there's no way they'll find you fit to work" (I had a stroke in February) - well I got ZERO points.... And when I got the letter I burst into tears even though people had warned me.

If you don't usually wash, then don't do anything different that day (believe me, I know - since my stroke I can't shower every day any more, too much effort....) Take your time, be yourself, maybe take hubby along for support. And then come back and report it to us here. We've been there!

Take care!

Hi Guys

Thanks for your support i really appreciate it.

I am fully expecting to fail as most MH claims do and my physical condition does not really have a name as its a combination of things.

I know that diagnosis is not supposed be as important as the condition, but without it they have cause to rip you to pieces. My husband is coming with me for support and as i get easily confused and forget things, that caused a huge problem with my DLA as he could not be there for that, there argument well you were on your own so you can cope, oh yeah so he should quit his job and both claim benefits is that what you want. they don't think logically and in my experience of DRS in general they don't get money worries as they never have them on those nice fat wages, bribe money for their integrity i wonder?

Im not sure how we could record it effectively though without being caught, cos then id be really f****d

Can you really ask for the report there and then don't they make you appeal first, i couldn't get my DLA on e till the appeal bundle arrived, speaking of that i have got CAB coming to my home to help me prepare but they have told me they don't represent people at the appeals any more as there is no point them being there. anyone know if this is case everywhere?

I had welfare rights help me with my DLA app, and the woman was horrible, she stood outside my house having a cig and on the phone for about 10 mins before coming in, all she wanted to talk about was tv programmes, and then the killer she saw the photo of my wedding with my husband in his kilt and spent a good half hour complaining how much she hated Scottish people - the nerve. i would have complained but i just didn't have the strength and didn't seem to be that important.

Anyway ive digressed a bit what i was trying to say was as those two are out and i have both physical and mental disabilities does anyone have any ideas where else i could go for representation

Last question, honestly

what kind of evidence do you mean i have my diary where i record episodes pain levels etc. and the written(by me) supporting evidence for my dla and the answers in my esa50, i sent them typed cos i cant write very well of for long, ohh that reminds me i have the diagnosis of dyspraxia letter from like 20 years ago.but with hospital letters the gp wants charge £30.00 per copy of letter, and they take appointment letters off you at the hosp i never remember to copy them, but i can take the one for Jan.

Is there anything else i should be gathering?

Thanks again and in advance

rach.

"Can you really ask for the report there and then don't they make you appeal first"

I'mnot sure about requesting it there and then, but you don't have to wait for an appeal, I did'nt, it took a couple of weeks to get it, I had to ring and request the Atos report, and the ' DWP decision'. I then appealed the minute I found I'd failed, with 0 points.

Once you've attended the medical assessment, complain about how it was conducted, and how you were made to feel.

Regardless of the 'verdict', check the Atos Report, compare it with 'The Decision', and cross referance with your ESA50 answers, take note of all the descrepances, and misleading ( untrue ) statements you find. ( If mine was anything to go by, you'll need a lot of paper, ha,ha,).

Then appeal asap.

Alan

Get ready for the questions such as do you use a computer at home? do you watch daytime TV and whats your favourite program.

Plus a boat load of others.

Good luck for tomorrow and remember ATOS is not your friend even though they may act and try to be.

And not to mention the long wait in the waiting room, Possible covert observation

good point by Nicolee - they pretend to be your mate and then trip people up - I wouldn't condone exaggerating as it's dishonest but work on a worst day scenario and stick to your guns

Furnitman is correct about covert observation ....everything there will be for a reason

Thanks for your continuing support,

i mentioned earlier that i think they have already tried to trip me so i prepared from the car park entrance to the exit to be watched, i do wonder about the legalities of using this evidence thought but have no doubt the dwp are happy to use this as evidence and ive told my husband to make sure he prompts me to say lay down or im in bed on my reclining chair etc.as well as things i may forget, im rehearsing the phrase

'im sorry but i haven't quite finished yet, im sorry that i may take longer to finish than usual but i get easily confused and forget things an i want to make sure i answer you fully'

if they don't accept that then there's the grounds for appeal - it was not a full assessment they did not obtain accurate information, and the belittled and humiliated me because i am not as coherent as others

i will 100% be appealing if i fail which i will, because i will always be completely honest my husband says your too honest for your own good because genuine claimants are honest as we genuinely fear losing our benefits or being tarred as a fraud we will always be the ones that suffer, whilst the liars out there seem to get more money then actually possible, it amazes me how they manage it Hollywood must be missing a few stars.

im panicking so much now already had an anxiety attack and SH im trying to get my stuff and my mind organised but im failing spectacularly but i supose i can take comfprt in knowing that this just another example to prove my entitlement

i will let you all tomorrow how it goes

rach

Being honest is the best practice to use, if you are genuinely ill then you have nothing to fear on appeal, lets face facts ATOS would see you and have seen people at deaths door and still failed them.

Don't fall for their stupid line of questioning though, I would question the purpose of the question and question if its relevant to the medical and what purpose it serves in being answered, why is watching TV relevant to the medical? why is watching Jeremy Kyle relevant to the medical. They are put there to catch you out and put you at ease by making you believe they are trying to be your friend when really its quite the opposite, these folk are an evil bunch of liars and if you have the means to covertly record the medical I would advise doing so and transcript the recording as soon as you are able to.

They gave my hubby 12 points for his medical and failed to give him points in a section of the medical when quite clearly he has difficulty in socialising and understanding people, they gave him 12 points for being too disabled to get around the house and look after himself, so how does a previously fit and active person now a house bound cripple manage to socialise with people outside the home as well as building up huge amounts anger at his new found disability.

ATOS know its wrong and they get away with it but with forums like this the tables are turning and they know it.

well thats it its done

took about less than 30 mins it would have been quicker but when i calmed down i made sure i gave detailed answers where i could even though it was clear he wanted me to shut up

I had a panic attack on the way there so was still recovering when i got in according to my husband i was still hyperventilating a bit and shaking i couldn't answer properly for needing to stop to take breaths i aslo had to ask for water cos my mouth was dry. but i guess that proves i dont suffer from anxiety in their minds thats the kind of logic they use

the questions were really vaugue like "what about your mental health then" yeah what about it?

i didn't give in to the tv questions telling him what genre of programme only not specifics and that i liked to watch things you can dip in and out and don't need concentration

i forgot my handbag and my husband had to get it but good ol him made a big deal of it, so no memory problems then

i had to stop him form the physical exam crying out in pain, sat at angle as i normally would got up when it hurt making sure i said why - so thats no problems sitting i nearly fell trying to get on the bed and putting my coat on so that would be no problems in standing, shuffled in with my stick so no problems walking clearly.

and the best one that my hubby finds hilarious i cant look people in the eye so spent a lot of time time focusing on the wheelchair in the back of the room i thought it was odd that he sat to do my physical and that husband offered to tidy up, he won't even clear his rubbish in McDonalds it was only when we got out that husband mentioned that he was using a special chair the wheelchair was his what great observational skills ive got oh by the way my hubby finds if funny that i didn't notice NOT that he is a wheelchair user just read it back and thought i better make that the clear.

the only other thing i would add is that he made no attempt to be friendly i was greeted with im dr blah blah sit down (i couldn't put his name in even if it was allowed cos i can't remember but that's my super memory skills in action ) he was very abrupt all the way through.

this afternoon im going to try to write it all down before it fades away forever

rach.

it's concerning as they can sound very off hand as they're implying you're working your ticket .....the questioning is very suspect because it's based on glorified tricks to be performed that seem to have nothing to do with the real world of work .....again there's a nasty inference .......i.e. alleged " cripps " can't do proper jobs anymore & nor do the employers want them anyway because of the Insurance & H&S concerns

& there may be deep resentment re staff morale & for Team Leaders , Managers in charge of said staff .......the " cripp " might be off too long on the sick and the teams will be short handed BUT you apparently can perform menial jobs in say a factory ....or do a turn behind the till in a supermarket in a wheelchair if necessary ? ......before the crash ....there might have been a high turnover .with these jobs ....so nobody really cared ?

......all these New Labour " ideas " came up when we were in the middle of a New Labour artifical boom based on comsumption of imported goods ....usually from China ......and a property boom thanks to Property Porn shows with the likes of Kirsty Allsop ....nowadays there simply isn't even the menial NMW jobs that noone cared about .......In Blackpool 150 applied for 10 vacancies for shelf filling , till & stockroom work .....

The Tories are not that stupid ....even they know that there would be a lot of resentment from the unsuccessful 140 .....if the " cripp " walked into a job to fit quotas ....the " solution " is to set their rags on them like The Sun & Mail to stir up a hate filled smokescreen .

Same goes for MH issues ......ATOS are implying that if you're not on the bombsite round the bonfire with the alkies or on the park bench and have er ....poor hygiene , fighting with and talking to yourself , or a complete half wit or being carted off to Hospital .( ......again they know if employers started to take on " Harry Ramp " or " Cider Woman " there would be a lot of resentment from staff that have not done anyone any harm ....IF there was jobs ! ) you are swinging the lead and they are implying you have to go to absurd lengths to convince us otherwise .

It's all percentages .....they will trip up some genuine professional skivvers and malingerers , they will bully and wear down stressed out people with problems so there will be no comeback and they'll think ......" Well tough if they're too thick to defend themselves ! "

There's nasty propaganda in the Comics and rags too from the DWP .....one " spokesman " said people were signed off on the word of family members and relatives " to cover for past DWP decisons ......just as if ! ? .......but if The Sun said a dog had five legs .....it would be taken as gospel by some on a diet of absurd reality game shows and D list celebrity gossip .

The kindest thing you can say about the two idiot system is that one lot are a bunch of expletive deleted's but the other lot are absolute another expletive deleted's .....answers on a postcard please : - ) )

Well done Rachmac. I know how hard it is to attend these assessments and I think you've been really brave, well done. Now all you can do is wait and see what they say. If you don't like the answer, then we'll talk you through the appeals process, but don't worry about it now, you've done enough. You and I are both lucky to have supportive OHs, yours sounds a star.

HB x

Hi everyone,

Sorry for my super late reply i think the medical wore me out i slept most of the day yest and today but im up now an about to start work on my DLA appeal, no rest of the wicked hey.

HB,

My husband is awesome, he's been an absolute star, cares for me looks after the house and works full time i don't know what i'd do without him glad to know there's more like him out there. I have already had a look at your sticky for my DLA appeal and i found it very helpful, thank you, i will def look at it again when i have to appeal the ESA as i am sure i will have to.

thanks to all for your support ill let you know the decision

rach

Well done at getting through it, Rachmac! With all your health problems that in itself is a great achievement.

I truly wish the "doctor" has decided to listen and record it all accurately, but due to their past efforts with others we can't say you won't have to appeal. Sad but true.

Hi Guys

an update and further question for you.

well i know its been a long time but i didn't want to say anything till id seen it writing you what DWP are like.

but heres the good news i passed and have been put in the WRAG but i still dont know how may points i scored, i found out i'd passed because i got a letter for a pathways appointment and rang up to tell them about my anxiety issues and was told "well you really have to come as your in the WRAG" i was like what so i rang to get this confirmed which they did verbally but its taken 2 months of ringing to the medical summery however there is still no mention of points i scored. and the worst bit is ive been told its due for review in a few weeks great all that again.

anyway obviously i am chuffed with the outcome i never thought i would pass, but regardless of this in the medical summery they have sent the dr - yes it was a gp - has made some huge mistakes mainly factual but some opinions anyway, no as i am intending to appeal can i still say i disagree with some findings.

the only reason i want to do this is because its up for review soon and i want to make sure the correct factual evidence and information is on the system and bu not disagreeing its like accepting they are correct and i worry it make a different assessors view.

it does say the reason its for review is because they feel my condition will improve with treatment, however non of my new treatments will start before the end of this year or the beginning of next year, you'd think they would know about the NHS time-scales for specialist care.

what do you think i should and should i have some notification of the points i was awarded

cheers rach.

I think you'd be better off making a complaint to atos rather than appealing the decision. If you're appealing the dwp decision, you're saying you don't agree with being found unfit to work and being put in the work group - which is not what you seem to be saying - but that you disagree with the doctor's representation of you in the medical report. If you agree with the dwp decision, you have no grounds for appeal.

I would advise that you make a complaint to atos detailing the ways you feel you were misrepresented, or where the report is inaccurate.

The breakdown of which descriptors you scored on generally comes with the medical report.

I'm inclined to agree with Leemack here. If you are happy with the decision to place you in the WRAG, don't appeal it. With an appeal there is not only the possibility of having your benefit increased but also the possibility of having the award removed altogether. I would say only appeal the decision if you feel that you should have been placed in the support group.

A letter of complaint is certainly in order - to ATOS, and keep a copy of your letter to them and any responses you receive so that you can present them if a future review goes awry. You could also if you like, copy DWP in by sending a copy of the complaint with a covering letter stating that you are not disputing the decision but have made a complaint about some areas of the report to ATOS and you would like a copy of your complaint to ATOS to be kept on your ESA file. Be very careful how you word it though. If you make it sound like the whole assessment was inaccurate they may well decide to review the decision.

..

I was assesed and scored enough point, had another 3 months later and scored 0 points! Wow, so in their eyes, I was cured of a condition I've had for over 40 years within that 3 months.

I dont actually receive any money, just credits to my N/I but I'm currently appealing the decision for the sake of other people to whom these pathetic 10 minute assesments can have a devestating effect on their lives i.e have their money cut/stopped.

I spoke to the decision maker at DWP who had phoned to tell me my claim had been disallowed based on this assesment, she said although she knows I cant work and the claim should be allowed, she was having trouble making my condition 'fit' into their basic set of questions, she said she would spend some time on it after we'd finished our call and do her best. I received a letter a few days later saying it had been disallowed, enclosed with it was the appeal papers.

Seems it would be so much easier for them if we stopped having our real complex illnesses and had something a bit more run of the mill, or maybe all become drug addicts or alcoholics, Yes I am angry!

HI Guys

sorry about the delayed reply ive been offline for a bit as i have not been so good lately.

i dont know what i did when ytping my last message cos i really messed up, it was meant to say i am not planning to appeal, thats why i wnated to know what else i could do.

i think i will put a complaint in to ATOS, do you think they have to have a storage facility just for all the complaints sent in? he he.

it will have to wait a bit though as i have my dla tribunal next week so focusing on that at the mo!

cheers

rach

Hi, good luck. How many times do you appeal before it goes to trubunal. I know there is a request for a reconsideration then an appeal and is it then straight to tribunal, after months of waiting obviously.

Hi, good luck. How many times do you appeal before it goes to trubunal. I know there is a request for a reconsideration then an appeal and is it then straight to tribunal, after months of waiting obviously.

Hello sj01. The short answer is yes. You appeal against the score Atos gave you at the 'medical' assessment. That goes to a Decision Maker [DM] at the DWP. If they uphold the decision, then you are appealing to the tribunal, as you say after quite a wait.

Rachmac, I hope it goes well for you. Please let us know how you get on.

My best, HB