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    • Firstly, and sorry for not asking earlier but have you submitted your DQ yet?
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Barclaycard v debt star *WON charges * - now


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Hello. I have kicked off a dispute with Barclaycrap. I CCA'd them about 40+ days ago and all they have sent me (received today) is a copy of their T&C. They have ignored 8 complaint letters, just sending me naff holding letters.

 

I have sent them the Failed letter.

 

The background is that B'card haven;t sent me any statements and post for 6 months. In my SAR it transpired they were still writing to an old address in like New Zealand (!!) and a more recent older address. all screwed up. They knew my address and had previously been using it. So no idea what they have been up to.

 

Anyway, the letters that DID come thru were a cancellation of my DMP with them and a Default Notice from Mercers.

 

I have placed my account in dipute as |I want them to (a) revert to the DMP payments and (b) supply with my CCA from 2000.

 

The SAR they sent me was pathetic. No copy statemnets and nothing relating to any PPI I believe I may have had on the credit card prior to the DMP

 

Any ideas what happens next with B'card? Should I continue to pay them the repayment sum each month during the dispute? Can they charge interest though (as that equates to the same amount of money!)

 

Oh, one other thing. The B'card T&C say the min payment is 2.5% of the balance but the statements are asking for 2X that sum.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi TDS

 

Are you after claiming back any charges?

 

Hi LDT

 

If I can find out any information from them then yes, defo.

 

these days I keep all info but back in 2000 that wasn't the case so I really don't know if I had PPI but I suspect I did. It would be monthly PPI on a CC though.

 

How are you BTW? Well I hope. Keep on truckin' bro.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Easy way to get a list of your charges from BC - Even after already SAR them - I had to do this for a copy of DN's so I have amended the letter for you.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx

 

I refer to my Subject access request of xx/xx/2010

 

I note that you have responded already but that you have failed to supply all of the information that I had originally requested.

 

I am now writing to request a fully comprehensive list of all the default charges for late payments or going over my credit limit that I have paid on the above account(s) over the last six years.

 

I have, of course, already paid the £10 fee with my original letter.

 

If you are unable to provide this data, I will accept a copy of my statements going back six years; I understand that statements on their own are not covered by the Data Protection Act 1998, yet I’m not requesting the statements per se, but the charges, which I’m entitled to by law.

 

If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

 

I look forward to your response within 40 days, Barclaycard is obliged to reply under the Data Protection Act. If not I shall seek remedy from the Information Commissioner.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Try that, it worked for me. BC take ages once you get your charges claim in, but they do pay them back in full (they did for me) with interest. I got both CI and Stat Interest back on first attempt, but I had to wait about 8 weeks, and did not even have to file at court.

 

Although I am not convinced re the charges from over 6 years ago, they would probably say they do not keep that information etc

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Cheers bro. Will do.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Have a question on this. I have put my account in dispute because Barclaycard have not sent my CCA. When they send it, can they demand the full arrears of the payments I should have made? Can they default my account if I don't?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi there

Good point -- but knowing Sharkly Card as I do they will probably play dirty.

 

My actual understanding is that if a debt is in dispute then NOTHING can be added to it such as charges, interest, etc.

 

So say you owe 1200 GBP on Jan 12 and have to pay back say 60 GBP a month but you've put the debt into dispute.

 

If it all gets sorted out say on June 12 then my reading is that you still Owe 1200 GBP and no interest for the period the debt is in dispute can be added.

 

However I'm no expert in these matters and knowing how greedy and slimy the Banks are they will probably say you didn't make payments for xxx months so we have added yyy interest - which makes a whole mockery of the entire process.

 

However one saving grace is that Sharkly Card usually are VERY POOR at producing the relevant paperwork --at least for older debts.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Hi Debt Star

 

The account you have put into dispute, do Mercers know about no CCA?. . They will still pass on information to the Credit Reference agencies as the debt still exists. If Barclaycard don't supply the information then Mercers should'nt have been assigned a debt with no paperwork, and they should hand it back to Barclaycard. There wil be late payment fees on the account also, so you could claim them back if they find a CCA, also claim any PPI back too.

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Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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cheers jimbo. yeah my card goes back to 2000/01. what i want to avoid is a situation where they tell me to cough up say 6X£210 a month (in my case) at the end of the dispute cos I've not been paying them, or worse, register a default on the account just after the dispute is ended cos I aint paid 'em during the dispute

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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They will still pass on information to the Credit Reference agencies as the debt still exists.

 

Does this mean they can state 1, 2, 3 missed payments etc even if the account is in dispute? And worse, put a default on during a dispute?

 

. There wil be late payment fees on the account also, so you could claim them back if they find a CCA, also claim any PPI back too.

 

On PPI, B'card did not send ANY info with the SAR in connection with this (and no historic statements etc). I propose to continue the dispute even if I get the CCA until the PPI issue is resolved(at the moment I dont know if I paid PPI or not but suspect from memory that I may have)

 

on charges / interest during the dispute, yeah noted. my concern is that dispute ends and B'card then satyright, you owe us £1260 for the past 6 months missed payments

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi there

That's basically what my post was about -- While the debt is in dispute NOTHING can be added to it 100% legally -- many court precedents for this.

 

However once the debt is say "regularized" my question was and STILL IS has the whole debt been moved forward so say the debt is in dispute for 5 months after that time can they add on back charges for the whole time the debt was in dispute or does the clock start again from the date of "regularisation" of the debt.

 

Nobody seems to have pointed out any relevant areas of legislation on this.

 

We all know that the Banks, DCA's etc will try ANYTHING to get their money -- and with more and more people challenging dubious CCA's etc the Banks are obviously going to try and retaliate.

 

If stopping the clock while a debt is in dispute only allows the Banks to lump on "missed payments" after the dispute is settled then what on Earth does putting a debt in dispute actually mean -- Nothing if this interpretation is valid.

 

PLEASE SOME SOL -- Can you clarify the position here -- I'm referring to a debt that IS in dispute but after a few months all the valid paperwork is produced so the creditor can justifiably say this debt is NO LONGER in dispute. and as you have missed xxx payments since you put the debt into dispute you will have to pay the missed payment charges.

 

( I'm not referring to other ways and means of challenging DCA's and their usual lying harassing ways and extortionate charges but a real situation where a lawful debt has been challenged and after due process is found to be still valid -- I think this is important as a point of Law and needs to be clarified IMO).

 

Please note also that I'm an Engineer and not a legal expert so my interpretation is based on practical rather than Legal experience which is why I'm appealing to a SOL to clarify this whole process. Of course we should always challenge debts where no valid agreement exists but we need to be armed also with weapons to use IF the debt is actually found to be valid. If the debt IS valid then we need to know if "back charges" are allowed and if they are not then this can be used in defence.

 

In general if a debt is 100% valid one can often get F&F settlements but before offering these explore EVERY avenue to ensure the creditor has followed ONLY STRICT PROCEDURES LAID DOWN BY LAW and challenge vigorously those cases where correct procedures have not been followed.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited by jimbo45
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jimbo, I'm waiting with you on this one. It causes me not some little consternation it must be said...........

 

I'll start a new thread on this issue and see what happens.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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B'card sent 1999 t&c no CCA. Their letter refers to a "reconstituted copy." is this permissible? It wasn't enclosed anyway.

 

Also, received their final response (actually it also happened to be their first response as well). It says nothing and admits nothing.

 

Over to the FOS then?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi Darkstar

 

If the account has been varied, i.e. the interest rate has increased since you opened the account then they need to provide you with the original agreement with the relevant

terms and conditions. Carey V HSBC (2009). The summary is at the bottom. The account remain unenforceable until they provide

the requested documents, Barclaycard will tell you different, because they cherry pick the bits they like.

 

 

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3417.html

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cheers mate, appreciated

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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the compind interest calculator software doesn't appear to work. I can't get it to calculate the interest paid in the final column. Is it the same with you or is just me?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Re Jimbo's post at #11 above, I'm no solicitor but will add my 2p's worth:-

 

1. Unlawful penalty charges on the a/c can and should be reclaimed in full plus relevant interest, regardless of whether the a/c is in a recognised dispute or not.

 

2. Re monthly payments missed while the a/c is in dispute, often the problem is that the bank or their DCA's will not recognise or agree that the a/c is, indeed, in dispute.

 

3. If it is accepted that the a/c is in dispute for a valid reason that the bank should recognise (ie they failed to produce a proper response to a CCA request), the bank cannot demand payments or use their DCA's to chase. If the bank then remedies the situation and you accept the monthly payments should resume, I don't think the bank can demand any back payments NOT made while the a/c was in dispute.

 

The crux of this of course is whether the bank agrees that the a/c is in dispute. They may send a set of T&C's, for instance, in response to a CCA request and say this fulfils their obligations. At that stage, they will continue to demand current payments on the a/c.

 

:-)

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Hi TDS,

 

What spreadsheet are you referring to please.

 

I see you have a BC thread in the Debt Collection Industry forum. Do you want to start one here in the BC forum about reclaiming your charges.

 

:-)

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often the problem is that the bank or their DCA's will not recognise or agree that the a/c is, indeed, in dispute.

 

 

cheers mate.

 

But that's the problem, if they don't recognise disputre how can we stop them defaulting us and registering that with a CRA?

 

They said they enclosed the CCA but didn't. Their word against mine. I did send a letter back prompto by signed for AND fax telling htem it wasn't enclosed and, further, when thery do send it, to make sure its a signed copy 'cos they have varied the interest rate and apr lots of times since 2000.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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This is the problem we now face.

 

They only have to send out T&C's and they fulfil the requirements of a CCA request. The FOS won't tackle the banks about the need to supply all the varied T&C's.

 

Perhaps there will be further clarification about what constitutes a full and proper response to a CCA request when someone takes the bank on about registering defaults, etc.

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Hi. they don't have to send a copy of the CCA agreement, just the t&C?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi. Its the spreadsheet you recommended at post #10.

 

I will start a Barcrap charges thread as well. I have asked them for £2,900 going back 11 years. Might as soon see angels flying out me arse as get that off them but its worth a try.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi. they don't have to send a copy of the CCA agreement, just the t&C?
In essence, yes.

 

However, if you look more closely at the comments of HHJ Waksman in his ruling on Carey v HSBC, it seems the bank should also send T&C's for each occasion when there's a change on the a/c - eg an interest rate change.

 

This is discussed in more detail in other threads. This is huge but worth a look - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?240186-Dissecting-the-Manchester-Test-Case....&highlight=dissecting+the

 

8-)

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Hi TDS,

 

There's no reason why you shouldn't get back all your charges and interest in restitution from BC.

If you have the a/c statements showing penalty charges for the 11 years, your should be able to reclaim them beyond the normal 6 years set by the Limitation Act 1980.

 

You'll rely on Section 32 of the Act due to BC concealing the nature of the charges.

 

8-)

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thanks mate. appreciated. my apologies to Linz.

I don't have the figures for beyond 6 years because Sharklaycrap wouldn't send me these. So does s32 come to the rescue? And can I estimate what I think the charges may have been? (which is what I have done BTW)

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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